Jimmer Fredette to the Spurs (Update: Mostly Non-Guaranteed Training Camp Deal)

[TheDoctor]

The same as it's always been, the Spurs proving that you can't put lipstick on a pig no matter how hard you try.... Jimmer, Ayres, Bonner, Boban, etc. Damn, I'm all for charity cases but, not at the expense of guaranteed money and precious roster spots.

Remember, #character .

[cd98]

Thought the bottom 7 players all played poorly. Jimmer was no worse. I think if any of these guys make the opening day roster, they'll be gone as soon as the Spurs can waive them and sign something better. I'd like to see Jimmer with the rotation players. He's in there with the rest of the scrubs and you don't really learn anything bc none of those guys are getting double teamed. I'd like to see if Jimmer can knock down the open looks he'd get with the rotation players.

And anyone that compared Jimmer to being as good as Mills is crazy. Mills is way better.

[ElNono]

Haters gonna hate....

[SAGirl]

I did wonder what Pop was doing the last half of this game and the past game. Messina's game all the starters save LMA and Kawhi were out and yet it was the better coached team and it looked like guys really wanted to win. LMA and Kawhi had a poor shooting game and overall the first unit got outplayed by the Kings and yet a bench without Manu and Diaw was still well coached. Messina put lineups that fit together and clearly wanted to win. At one point he subbed Kyle out in the 4th and put him back in bc he gave the team the best chance to win within the confines of the lineups he was obligated to play and the minutes he had agreed with Pop to give to guys. He was still coaching guys to end the game and putting together plays. These past couple of games Pop cared about the chemistry for guys in the rotation the first half and then the second half is full experimentation mode, but I am not sure what he's learning from this. I think he already kind of knows who is making the team, and he's just throwing guys out there so they get their chances to be seen. For some guys who are already making the team, he's placing them in uncomfortable situations so they can learn from it, Kyle and Ray specially, both young guys who are still "green", are being let loose to sink or swim pretty much, but he's not coaching them to try to get them to rally up or setting up plays, or anything like that. It might not have made a difference anyways.

Coach Bud wanted this game. Preseason or no it was a home game and he put his starting squad out there in the 3rd to put this game away for good. They came out with defensive intensity and there is no way Kyle or Ray and a bunch of guys who were not NBA players would be able to make any kind of noise against an Eastern Conference Finalist Team last year. Are we kidding ourselves? Jimmer's most valuable asset has been his dribble penetration. He hasn't been able to get his shot off, but he's looked to make plays. I can see him making the team bc he already has a contract. The one guy who can make a run for it is Butler, who has been playing well and may play a kind of stretch 4.

[Spurtacular]

I liked some of the things I saw on both defense and offense tonight. He needs to get the ball more and be more aggressive.

Overall not looking great though but I haven't been impressed with KA, Ray, Simmons, Williams, that other pg, either.

Agreed. I'd like for him to look to get threes off of screens or on pull-ups. He's not been doing that. But that's what opens up his game. He needs to believe in his strengths and not be afraid to fail.

[SAGirl]

Agreed. I'd like for him to look to get threes off of screens or on pull-ups. He's not been doing that. But that's what opens up his game. He needs to believe in his strengths and not be afraid to fail.

I would not have mind at all to have seen some plays called to get him open for a shot TBH, which goes to my comment above. I am not sure what Pop is learning from the second half of these past games. I think he already knows who is making the team and is just giving the players in the roster playing time. You know what I saw when I saw Deshaun Thomas get all that playing time getting subbed in early in the second half? He's not making the team. I remembered just how much Daye played the game right before he got waived, and was even started for a couple of games the team wanted to win (Wash Wizards and Charlotte), all the while they sent Kyle Anderson to Austin after he had a few good games in December and was the better player of the two. He was just giving Daye a time to be seen, and Kyle was sent to work on his game. So often what we learn from these games is misplaced.

It may very well be that the guys who are really making the team are the guys who are already signed and the rest is just a tease.

[Spurtacular]

I would not have mind at all to have seen some plays called to get him open for a shot TBH, which goes to my comment above. I am not sure what Pop is learning from the second half of these past games. I think he already knows who is making the team and is just giving the players in the roster playing time. You know what I saw when I saw Deshaun Thomas get all that playing time getting subbed in early in the second half? He's not making the team. I remembered just how much Daye played the game right before he got waived, and was even started for a couple of games the team wanted to win (Wash Wizards and Charlotte), all the while they sent Kyle Anderson to Austin after he had a few good games in December and was the better player of the two. He was just giving Daye a time to be seen, and Kyle was sent to work on his game. So often what we learn from these games is misplaced.

It may very well be that the guys who are really making the team are the guys who are already signed and the rest is just a tease.

My thought is that Pop knows the fifteen under contract are making the team. He's giving guys like Williams, Butler, Sykes, etc some looks b/c he wants to leave no stone unturned. Certainly, the rotations make no sense otherwise.

[AFBlue]

Haters gonna hate....

Shake it off.

[AFBlue]

Don't know why there would be anything more than supposition that Jimmer is getting the axe after a few games. He's the only one with a guaranteed contract of any substance that is competing for a spot out of camp.

[Spurtacular]

Don't know why there would be anything more than supposition that Jimmer is getting the axe after a few games. He's the only one with a guaranteed contract of any substance that is competing for a spot out of camp.

Haters, tbh.

[jeebus]

He's the Johnny Manziel of the NBA. If he has one game where he doesn't suck the whole game, this place would explode into a cloud.

[apalisoc_9]

80 pages

[SpursIndonesia]

He made a couple of shots and hustled on a few possessions D. Got a little unlucky with some guys being out of bounds when he passed them the ball. Still pretty much sucked, but I found myself rooting for him a bit due to Wilkins' completely awful scouting report on him.

Yeah, the comment about him being a strictly a catch & shoot player with no ball handling skill at all really made me chuckling.

[ceperez]

14th and 15th slots are up for grabs.

The remaining contenders:

Butler <-- role player at the 3. can shoot when open and long enough to be decent in defense.
Fredette <-- good IQ, but has too many risky moves. can't defend.
Bonner <-- locker glue, but can he still play?
Williams <-- seems to have a certain poise, but does the team need another SG?

I am leaning towards keeping Butler and leaving 15 slot open. Bonner makes sense from the coaching perspective.

[TheDoctor]

I did wonder what Pop was doing the last half of this game and the past game. Messina's game all the starters save LMA and Kawhi were out and yet it was the better coached team and it looked like guys really wanted to win. LMA and Kawhi had a poor shooting game and overall the first unit got outplayed by the Kings and yet a bench without Manu and Diaw was still well coached. Messina put lineups that fit together and clearly wanted to win. At one point he subbed Kyle out in the 4th and put him back in bc he gave the team the best chance to win within the confines of the lineups he was obligated to play and the minutes he had agreed with Pop to give to guys. He was still coaching guys to end the game and putting together plays. These past couple of games Pop cared about the chemistry for guys in the rotation the first half and then the second half is full experimentation mode, but I am not sure what he's learning from this. I think he already kind of knows who is making the team, and he's just throwing guys out there so they get their chances to be seen. For some guys who are already making the team, he's placing them in uncomfortable situations so they can learn from it, Kyle and Ray specially, both young guys who are still "green", are being let loose to sink or swim pretty much, but he's not coaching them to try to get them to rally up or setting up plays, or anything like that. It might not have made a difference anyways.

Coach Bud wanted this game. Preseason or no it was a home game and he put his starting squad out there in the 3rd to put this game away for good. They came out with defensive intensity and there is no way Kyle or Ray and a bunch of guys who were not NBA players would be able to make any kind of noise against an Eastern Conference Finalist Team last year. Are we kidding ourselves? Jimmer's most valuable asset has been his dribble penetration. He hasn't been able to get his shot off, but he's looked to make plays. I can see him making the team bc he already has a contract. The one guy who can make a run for it is Butler, who has been playing well and may play a kind of stretch 4.

You're putting too much thought in this. First, Messina is not in the same position as Pop. If he wants to be a HC in the near future, he needs to show that he can coach. For that reason its that you see him coaching and putting some effort until the last second of the game. On the other hand, Pop could put you, daboom, spurtacular, elnono and me and he will not care. He doesn't need to prove anything. Practically he has remained on the bench during these past 2 games. I think if he has raised from the bench is to argue with officials and during time outs. But nothing more. He's throwing out these scrubs in there to give them playing time because once the regular season starts they won't get that much of a playing time if any. Even in another team.

[From Downtown]

14th and 15th slots are up for grabs.

The remaining contenders:

Butler <-- role player at the 3. can shoot when open and long enough to be decent in defense.
Fredette <-- good IQ, but has too many risky moves. can't defend.
Bonner <-- locker glue, but can he still play?
Williams <-- seems to have a certain poise, but does the team need another SG?

I am leaning towards keeping Butler and leaving 15 slot open. Bonner makes sense from the coaching perspective.

There's no way Bonner won't make the team
For the other spot personally I'd go with Butler,I don't think Williams is NBA material
KA is Kawhi'r replacement and will play at the 3,Simmons will probably play when Manu is resting,but neither of them is a good-to-great 3 point shooter
So for a 3-rd string wing player we know Rasual can make open 3s,while Jimmer's release is too slow for the NBA,plus he needs the ball in his hands to be effective and he's not a good enough ball-handler to command that...Rasual also have size on his side when it comes to defense

[Raven]

cut him.

[Birn]

That's your problem. Ideas and arguments are completely independent of the person who has or asserts them. Jimmer is either good or he is not. Pop thinking Jimmer is good doesn't make him good. Pop thinking Ayres was good didn't stop him from being a bad player. Your attempt to dismiss arguments based on credibility is a logical fallacy called appeal to authority. It's not a smarter, more reasonable view to have. It's just lazy.



I won't change simply based on that. I have never asserted that Jimmer won't make the team. They gave him a ton of money, and I doubt they want to waste it, though I believe they are willing to. But if he doesn't play better, I won't believe he deserved to make it. Unlike you, I'm not waiting for Pop to give me a cue on what to believe.



Yes, and congressmen know more about social policy than you would ever know. Do you just defer your opinions on social matters to your representative?

Your congressman argument is utterly stupid. Members of Congress work for us, the people. We have authority over them. Comparing members of Congress to the way the Spurs build their team just shows your illiteracy. Jimmer may be a bust but I'm going to give PATFO the benefit of the doubt based on their proven track record. That's not submitting to anything. I've only seen Jimmer play about 15 minutes of preseason action with the Spurs. I haven't seen more of him in practice or how he works with the staff or other players. Have you?

[ceperez]

There's no way Bonner won't make the team
For the other spot personally I'd go with Butler,I don't think Williams is NBA material
KA is Kawhi'r replacement and will play at the 3,Simmons will probably play when Manu is resting,but neither of them is a good-to-great 3 point shooter
So for a 3-rd string wing player we know Rasual can make open 3s,while Jimmer's release is too slow for the NBA,plus he needs the ball in his hands to be effective and he's not a good enough ball-handler to command that...Rasual also have size on his side when it comes to defense

The game against the Hawks showed that even if Butler shot poorly, he did a lot of other things. 5 rebounds and 2 assists.

I am however worried about McCallum. He hasn't shown to have the basketball IQ to run the Spurs offense. That is troubling for a backup point guard.

[Chinook]

Your congressman argument is utterly stupid. Members of Congress work for us, the people. We have authority over them.

That's completely irrelevant (and mostly ignorant). You're aligning your opinions with those of PATFO because you consider them more knowledgeable. Congressman are (or should be) more knowledgeable than you or I, and they definitely have access to more detailed information to we do. So they should have better formed opinions. And they have tremendous track records, lest they wouldn't be congressmen. So why aren't you deferring to their credibility?

Jimmer may be a bust but I'm going to give PATFO the benefit of the doubt based on their proven track record.

Do we as posters have any power over whether Fredette is on the team? No. So who cares whether we give him the benefit of the doubt or not? We cannot affect the outcome, so we're only giving our evaluation of the situation. Well, we except for you are. You're taking the completely substanceless view that you agree with PATFO on all personnel matters. Again, that's your right, but it's a REALLY silly stance to pump up and condescend people for not having.

I haven't seen more of him in practice or how he works with the staff or other players. Have you?

The reason why this thread got so long is because of a workout video of Jimmer someone posted. It sparked a ton of debate over his mechanical issues. It takes less than 15 minutes of game time to see that those deadly faults are still there. He hasn't fixed his shot at all, and that's why most of us have no faith in him. That shot is why he was even available for a minimum deal in the first place.

So yeah, I have an opinion on him that he hasn't done anything to change. I watched quite a bit of footage of him, including full game videos and not just highlights. I looked at his stats and actually analysed them. I didn't just sit on my ass and claim Jimmer sucks because I don't like his name or because his rivalry with Kawhi. I went in sort of liking him and ended up realizing he's not a good player after researching him. That's much better than just deferring to someone else.

[From Downtown]

The game against the Hawks showed that even if Butler shot poorly, he did a lot of other things. 5 rebounds and 2 assists.

I am however worried about McCallum. He hasn't shown to have the basketball IQ to run the Spurs offense. That is troubling for a backup point guard.

He's a good offensive player,but yeah he looks like he's not completely aware of how to run an offense
He comes from 3 years in Sacramento and he's still quite young though,so he can still improve working with Pop and the Spurs coaching staff

[TheDoctor]

Your congressman argument is utterly stupid. Members of Congress work for us, the people. We have authority over them. Comparing members of Congress to the way the Spurs build their team just shows your illiteracy. Jimmer may be a bust but I'm going to give PATFO the benefit of the doubt based on their proven track record. That's not submitting to anything. I've only seen Jimmer play about 15 minutes of preseason action with the Spurs. I haven't seen more of him in practice or how he works with the staff or other players. Have you?

[Spurtacular]

Yeah, the comment about him being a strictly a catch & shoot player with no ball handling skill at all really made me chuckling.

Domique Wilkins is about as dumb as Clyde Drexler; that meant nothing.

[Chinook]

Domique Wilkins is about as dumb as Clyde Drexler; that meant nothing.

That's what he and I were saying. That take was Miller-level bad.

[Spurtacular]

The game against the Hawks showed that even if Butler shot poorly, he did a lot of other things. 5 rebounds and 2 assists.

I am however worried about McCallum. He hasn't shown to have the basketball IQ to run the Spurs offense. That is troubling for a backup point guard.

If Rasual Butler isn't scoring, he's absolutely a negative value. He's never been the proverbial all around player by any means.