So do only four people do that? Or is it even just a subset of the four people that do that? Are you the only one of the four that doesn't do that?
It's not that the release / size arguments are not w/o merit. It's that they're often overstated. And it ignores Jimmer's ability to shoot from deep threes. Though, he hasn't been doing that so far. I don't know if that's due to a small sample size, Pop not wanting that, or Jimmer being too timid. We'll see though.
Maybe because he's a terrible shooter.
.188
Fredette is even worse than I thought
.188
Boban Can probably be a more efficient three point shooter than him.
It took you that long to stumble onto that stat, got?.188
Fredette is even worse than I thought
.188
Boban Can probably be a more efficient three point shooter than him.
Is that what Kawhi shot in Games 5-7 against the Clips?
Kevin Martin's shooting form is low & awkward, but plenty damn fast, consistent, & accurate, and proven to be effective enough either as a main scorer off the ball or floor spacer. If Bummer Brickette can atleast speed up his shooting motion about 50% faster, while still not all that beautiful & ideal, i think his shooting form will work too, too bad it ain't happening.
I would disagree and use his windup as the reason his shot isn't plenty fast. Good shooter though. The point is, no matter what armchair basketball players think, these bs technical aspects are not as defining as they would like to pretend.
Say this same thing about short qbs, running qbs in football.
The only things that will truly evolve someone is time and confidence. But that is not to say technical adjustments are useless.
Giving gglimmer a quicker release won't turn him into Ray allen. Allowing him to feel confident and giving him time in the system will yield a better player. Even with a quicker release he would still be fumbling around
Yeah, slow releases are killers, as are lower release points. Martin has indeed "made it work" with his release, but there are very noticeable side effects to his game.
Like Jimmer, Martin is accurate on corner-threes, but he can't attempt many (only 26 percent of his threes come from the easiest spot along the arch) because people are able to close out on him. His rate of assisted threes is .867 for his career. That might seem like a lot (and it is compared to Jimmer's .615), but it's actually pretty low compared to elite shooters (Green and Korver are at .940 and .962, while Ray Allen in his best years with Boston and Miami was at .916-- though Curry is an obvious exception at .621 and Mills is closer to Martin at .820). Martin's ability to space the floor is definitely affected by his release point, and I also want to say that Martin is extremely side-dominate due to fling-shot form.
From his Thunder days. And this site (http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/pl...tin/shotchart/) for last season. He's not nearly as versatile as he would be if he shot with better technique. Just like Jimmer, his shot locations are affected by his release, but at least Kevin is in the normal playing field.
When people assume that Jimmer can learn to play with his release being so awful, they fail to release that his game HAS ALREADY been modified to account for it. That's why he takes so many more shots off the dribble than he does spotting up, shoots from farther away from the basket and takes almost no corner shots. No one should wonder Jimmer can individually compensate for his limitations. He's done that already. He can do his thing one-on-one, which Kawhi found out when they were in school together.
The question has always been this: Does the way he compensates work in a team context? The answer for him is that it only really works on when a team lets him hold the ball and make his own offense. The more people try to get him into a normal spot-up situation, the harder it is for him to help the team. The more a coach wants him to stand in a corner, the fewer shots he'll be able to get off.
I think he is like a guy who falls in love with a 3 in his career to the detriment of other parts of his game. He can drive by people and shoot a good percentage. It is nice but it isn't his role. He isn't a slow shooter, his release just isn't as good because he is hesitating now because driving is an easy option. He needs to get back to thinking 3 first and drive 2nd.
Martin's numbers also fall off a cliff against good/great defensive teams, which he has been known for his entire career(ask any fan of any team he has played for), including both his playoff appearances IMO..easy to mask flaws during the regular season when teams don't game plan..
regardless, though, comparing one of the best foul-drawers of this generation and a player with actual basketball skills to Jimmer..that's like comparing Phillip Rivers to Tebow because Martin's shot release is unconventional..
Wow you make a tremendous amount of assumption based on that graphic. Misusing stats again I see. First, there is no "easiest" three, or shot. Second, you state versitility, but martin is a good three-point shooter and can get to the line better than anyone you've listed, and Kawhi.Yeah, slow releases are killers, as are lower release points. Martin has indeed "made it work" with his release, but there are very noticeable side effects to his game.
Like Jimmer, Martin is accurate on corner-threes, but he can't attempt many (only 26 percent of his threes come from the easiest spot along the arch) because people are able to close out on him. His rate of assisted threes is .867 for his career. That might seem like a lot (and it is compared to Jimmer's .615), but it's actually pretty low compared to elite shooters (Green and Korver are at .940 and .962, while Ray Allen in his best years with Boston and Miami was at .916-- though Curry is an obvious exception at .621 and Mills is closer to Martin at .820). Martin's ability to space the floor is definitely affected by his release point, and I also want to say that Martin is extremely side-dominate due to fling-shot form.
From his Thunder days. And this site (http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/pl...tin/shotchart/) for last season. He's not nearly as versatile as he would be if he shot with better technique. Just like Jimmer, his shot locations are affected by his release, but at least Kevin is in the normal playing field.
When people assume that Jimmer can learn to play with his release being so awful, they fail to release that his game HAS ALREADY been modified to account for it. That's why he takes so many more shots off the dribble than he does spotting up, shoots from farther away from the basket and takes almost no corner shots. No one should wonder Jimmer can individually compensate for his limitations. He's done that already. He can do his thing one-on-one, which Kawhi found out when they were in school together.
The question has always been this: Does the way he compensates work in a team context? The answer for him is that it only really works on when a team lets him hold the ball and make his own offense. The more people try to get him into a normal spot-up situation, the harder it is for him to help the team. The more a coach wants him to stand in a corner, the seconfdfewer shots he'll be able to get off.
Martin is someone I've watched since high school. I watched him at Western at the top of the nation in scoring, and watched him in the nba. You on the other hand, put your argument on the table with minimal evidence which you think proves your point, but it doesnt. It's comical that you feel in info graphic can replace watching a player for two decades. Silly you
Did you ignore that link I put in that showed his other seasons? They all look the same.
I know exactly why you think that, so there's no reason going down that road.First, there is no "easiest" three, or shot.
Yes, but he pretty much only plays on one side of the floor. If he had a better release, he could play well on both sides. As a floor-spacer, versatility really helps. Martin is or at least was great at drawing fouls. He's not a one-trick pony, but he's not a complete player either due to his release.Second, you state versitility, but martin is a good three-point shooter and can get to the line better than anyone you've listed, and Kawhi.
No one gives a about your anecdote. It's obvious you don't know how to interpret anything you see, so even if it's true, it doesn't matter. If you want to bring some other evidence to suggest I'm wrong, sure. But the fact is that you're wrong in assuming Martin wasn't limited, at least in the NBA.Martin is someone I've watched since high school. I watched him at Western at the top of the nation in scoring, and watched him in the nba.
I'm just waiting for the inevitable suicide in before November.
Lol. Your whole emphasis on finite numbers that were past measurements make you "think" you have "answers." The reality is, and for some unknown reason, you can't understand that these measurements aren't predicated on one thing and the chances of exact replication are zero.
I'm really curious if you have some psychological issue with numbers. Basically what you are telling me, and anyone who reads your posts, that no matter how many times someone has watched a player, you can pull a random "stat" and know more about the player...?
So strange that teams use a similar process when selecting players, yet these same players proven by data many times do not pan out.
I'm amazed that you are still on a message board after all of these posts and not in a front office creating algorithms for a pro team.
You're right Chinook. Kevin Martin's slow release has made him less versatile on offense than many other players. Equally confusing that he has better advanced stats than Leonard, but keep showing your graphics.
Look, we can all post gobbledygook and think that makes us sound smart. Again, I'm not saying stats are predictive or prescriptive. But they are descriptive. Martin has been limited by his release (not its speed, since it's fast, but its release point, which is low and off the the side). You can act like it's somehow a trick of numbers that his game favors one side of the floor, but it's just silly to anyone who's not trying to buoy their view that they know what their eyes saw.
Yeah. You haven't demonstrated the ability the analyze a player's game at all. So I don't care if you say you've watched him more. That's even more true because there's no way to verify how much you've watched him. Anyway, yeah, if the numbers say Martin has been biased to the left side of floor, and you eyes and experience seem to think he hasn't, I have no problem claiming your eyes and experience is wrong. No issue at all.I'm really curious if you have some psychological issue with numbers. Basically what you are telling me, and anyone who reads your posts, that no matter how many times someone has watched a player, you can pull a random "stat" and know more about the player...?
You mean like when the Kings selected Jimmer in the mid lottery? And no one's proven to be a good bet by data. Data explains the past. So it can tell teams who played well in college just fine, and those players can end up being poor pros for a number of reasons. Jimmer is a prime example of this.So strange that teams use a similar process when selecting players, yet these same players proven by data many times do not pan out.
I think you misunderstand the timbre of my disagreement with you. It's not, "OMG, I'm so smart that I understand all this stuff you can't because you're just a normal guy." It's, "This stuff is really obvious to anyone who looks, and if you weren't acting so foolish, you could absorb this basic info too." I'm not doing anything hard. You're just trying hard to downplay very easy to see things.I'm amazed that you are still on a message board after all of these posts and not in a front office creating algorithms for a pro team.
First, why bring Leonard into this? It's like you are a different person in this thread. You know I know Leonard has shooting issues. He's hardly a gold standard to compare floor-spacers. Second, Martin's release isn't slow. It's low, but the dude is 6-7, so it's still much higher than Jimmer's. Finally, I'm confused as to why you think Martin has better advanced stats than Kawhi at all. A quick glance at the stats show that's not true.You're right Chinook. Kevin Martin's slow release has made him less versatile on offense than many other players. Equally confusing that he has better advanced stats than Leonard, but keep showing your graphics.
Trust me, aside from Bruno and a handfull of others that don't post here anymore, people rarely succeed at sounding smart on this trap of a board. Most of the members here are a bunch of trolls, or flat out dumb s that can barely manage jerking off. Or really, really stupid Euro trash or inhabitants of filthy 3rd world South American countries. You don't have to worry about people sounding smart.ook, we can all post gobbledygook and think that makes us sound smart.
Are you a part of the handful that has no problem jacking off or are you with the others that is barely managing?
Bruno.
Says the lame that has erotic quotes in his sig.
Nah, . I got a woman. The up.
A Chucho that says . Yeah, that's cool.
Why would you call your woman the up? Does she mess up a lot?
I'm as much a "Chucho" as you are a hustler, which is to say not at all.
You're not very good at this, eh? Step yo game up, sucka.
So then you aren't a Chucho? You're confusing me.
Do you want to discuss the sigs further? You mentioned some eroticism. I have to be honest with you, I have had sigs turned off for quite some time and completely forgot about mine. Was there something about them that stirred something in you? When I typed those in years ago it was just something funny that someone else said.
Is it something that you think you want to act on? Some of those people aren't around anymore but I am pretty sure that I can get in touch. I will say though you might be disappointed because they might not share your feelings. Who am I to stand in the way of love though?
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