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I shake my head at the fans wanting LMA to shoot 3s. We don't need Chris Bosh, and I hope LMA doesn't turn into him.
Keep shooting mid-range 2s and being a rebounding machine until the cows come home, LMA!
As far as Aldridge shooting 3's, I don't like having him that far from the rim. Offensive rebound chances go way down.
Through the first six games, Aldridge has 55 total rebounds, and 15 of those are offensive. That is quite good.
For comparison, Duncan has 53 total rebounds, through the first six games, and only 9 are on the offensive end.
For further comparison, Leonard has 50 rebounds, total, in this same time period, and 7 are offensive.
Somebody other than Aldridge should be shooting 3's, so he'll be in better position to work the offensive glass.
I shake my head at the fans wanting LMA to shoot 3s. We don't need Chris Bosh, and I hope LMA doesn't turn into him.
Keep shooting mid-range 2s and being a rebounding machine until the cows come home, LMA!
Great, great post. I made a similar argument in the last game thread. The starting unit was built around TP's penetration opening up opportunities. Now he can only do that occasionally, and often it is sort of half-speed, half-ass movement.
I don't think the answer will be find the next Tony Parker (if you could, you might consider it). I think we should play the inside-out game with more guard movement, and get Kawhi and Aldridge to work on moves that let them spin and get closer to the basket. Combine it with cuts, big to big passing from the high, low and mid-posts, and stretch the floor with Danny (and hopefully TP).
There was a play where Mills and Aldridge passed the rock back and forth in and out of the post, and the rotations gave Mills the momentary opportunity to blow past his man for a scoop. Simple, and effective. Easily could have been TP in the starting lineup.
The bench has been better than the starters(offensively) since the start of Parker's decline in 2014. They heavily relied on the bench to dig them out of holes , even in the playoffs.
Pop has changed the offense before so I don't doubt that he'll figure out how to optimally use the pieces in the starting unit.
Good stuff. Also, let's not forget Green. He was well scouted last game and covered well, but he is still a threat for the inside/out game. I think he has been more of a fifth option lately with people trying to acclimate LMA.
I don't think they can as constructed, but that's ok. You don't have to be 'beautiful game' all the time. You can play a more traditional offense and still be effective. But for that roles have to change. I concur with Harlem and Perry about Tony's game needing a severe makeup because this isn't Tim and TP centered offense anymore (something I alluded to in my 'change SL thread')... It's gonna take time.
Only if they are beautiful.
TD21 and I had this disagreement in the NBA forum in October IIRC..I said I didn't think the Spurs would win the division, because it's going to take months to make this work..
They still might, since the Rockets don't look great and the Spurs still have enough talent to win games strictly on that, but I stand by my original prediction..I think people really underestimated the impact of re-structuring the entire offense, which is essentially what the Spurs are doing with the starting unit..
Other teams added pieces(Clippers, Thunder getting Durant, Houston getting Lawson, etc), but none of those teams are changing their philosophy and style of play..the Spurs are attempting to integrate a high-usage player that is accustomed to shooting a lot(Aldridge), continuing Kawhi's evolution into a lead guy, and trying to find a fit for an aging Parker, a guy that has been running the offense for over 10 years..not to mention Danny Green has never played in a different offensive system since he has been in the NBA, it's an adjustment for him, as well..
There was an assumption that Aldridge was going to fit naturally and that the Spurs are always a well-oiled machine that never has glitches, but that's just another example of the media/non-Spurs fans putting too much emphasis and giving too much credit to the Spurs system, rather than the actual players on the court..
Pop has already stated that he isn't really looking to make adjustments with Aldridge, or overall, yet, as he wants to see how LA naturally plays before anything, which is the correct strategy IMO..he's not going to make any changes in the starting unit, especially 2 weeks into the season..
There's also the potential secret brilliance of Pop in this regard, reverting to a conventional, post/ISO-centric offense may be intentional to counter the Warriors' style of play..as overrated as they are, the Grizzlies did give GS some problems in the playoffs, their downfall being that they are very limited in talent, and giving playing time to terrible players like Tony Allen and having no star power..
With the current pieces on the team, the Spurs can utilize Memphis' defensive/ISO style of play, while having shooters(Green, Mills) and much superior star power/scoring(Aldridge, Leonard), along with a bench that is levels better than anything Memphis had, last year..I don't believe the Spurs can beat the Warriors at their own game, this isn't 2013 or 2014, maybe going the conventional route makes more sense, although obviously adjusting to 2016's style of the NBA, rather than 2005..
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This too, he has been incredibly good on second chance points, and it seems to be by design.
Obviously Tony has to adjust to a new role to take time.
But in the meantime he has to find a way to be less permeable on defense.
I would like someone to pull off a points/scored allowed by a player and his opposing player to see how ton´s doing. But so far it seems that it is becoming more and more normal for opposing teams to just iso Parker with whoever he is guarding.
Offensively i think the starting five are doing quite fine. But defensively is where they are lacking.
The offense should be better but individual defense is another thing.
They are currently the 2nd ranked defense in the NBA..
I think he means we could be an even greater defensive team if parker wasn't so ty.
Let me just remind how defense was before kawhi joined the Spurs.
1st: It's monumentally difficult to put together a 5 man team that can move the basketball, defend and score as well as the Spurs 1st unit.
2nd: It's exponentially harder build one to do it as well as the 2nd unit, I've only seen a couple in my lifetime.
3rd: It's otherworldly to get that better unit to come off the bench.
Addressing 1: Tony cannot become a cog in the machine. He's been forever focused on pushing the offense, not moving the ball. He's a mediocre level passer in an elite shadow ops level passing game. He has, for whatever reason (PATFO or other) chosen the gradient of decline over evolution of his game play. Tim, on the other hand, all but stopped taking that bank shot from the side, doesn't free stroke the long jumper from the top of the key, and doesn't barrel in for offensive boards. Tim has also been a bit flakey on offense this season so far, like it's too easy for him and he's taking unnecessary risks with the ball. Still, Tim's game evolved but it took a few years for that to transpire. Tony might never get there, being in group lock step mentally with Tim and Manu where age is concerned, though he's younger. Ironically Tim and Manu, especially the latter, have found the fountain of youth this season and it's amazing to watch. Tony is still struggling though. Kawhi, Danny and LMA are the ball movement guys right now. Kawhi has the perpetual green light it seems and seems willing to take it, but that's a good thing. Pop will tell him when to chill. I don't know so much about Danny taking those transition 3's with no one else back, that's between him and Pop but it seems Pop has given guys that discretion in the past as long as they don't get stupid about it.
Addressing 2: When Boris is at the 4, the game becomes fast and smooth. He can "see". Tony can't see, has conical vision out there I think. Boris and Manu see the entire floor all the time and often seem to be a couple plays ahead of the action, mentally. Put Patty out there with his great court vision as well as his shooting stroke and quickness and the beautiful game begins to emerge. David West is the beneficiary of having probably the best PnR guy in the league in Manu Ginobili feeding him the ball, but West can finish at the rim and can also make that short or even longer jump shot, unlike Blair who was relegated to rim play only (and still flourished when he was on the floor with Manu). Patty, Manu and Boris are basically the heart of the "beautiful game" in San Antonio. Those are three high IQ players. I don't think a low IQ guy could move the ball like that and find the open shooter at the same time. No other team in the league has anything close to that. The Spurs bench could make the playoffs on their own, I'm certain of it.
Addressing 3: What kind of black magic has Pop used to get these guys to feel so good about coming off the bench? They are like the special forces of the Spurs offense, just sharpening their knives and cleaning their firearms until they get that call up. They go from zero to 100mph like right now... no lull. The 1st unit needs to get some of that going, but for some reason Pop has them walking the ball up the floor and Tony over-dribbling the ball, penetrating and needing endless lessons on not being that guy any more, as the opponent breaks the other direction and scores on Tony's turnovers.
Go to the Hornets' website, watch their post game videos. They never hold their heads up, they compliment the Spurs constantly. It must be difficult to act like you really give a every time you lose, year after year, when you are on a ty team. You can find similar videos on at least half the NBA team websites, because they are so accustomed to losing. Be grateful all you have to worry about is getting over that hump in the playoffs, every year, for 16 or so years running.
Same. His inability to get to the line/play make was fine when he was an ancillary piece offensively, but it's not as the focal point. I realize that neither is ever going to be his forte, but he can't be as inept as he currently is in those two areas.
It wasn't the Spurs not winning the division that I took issue with, it was claiming the Rockets had (paraphrasing) little to no compe ion. Extended adjustment period or not, that never made sense.
Heavy reliance on post up/iso ball probably is required to beat the Warriors in a series, but this isn't '12-'14, when only the Thunder and Heat were capable of beating this team in a series. In addition to the Warriors and Thunder, the Clippers, Rockets and Cavaliers are capable too, which means everything can't be geared towards what would work best against the Warriors.
Tiago played a big part in that "Beautiful Game" video as well. For a big, he was an excellent passer, almost up there with Diaw but not quite. I've never seen a big man do a no look pass like Tiago would
If Parker was paid what he was actually worth($2-$3 million), we could have kept Tiago. Tony's bloated salary killed our depth.
Yeah, we can beat GS in a half court game. They really have no post presence or elite penetrators. Curry is pretty good at getting into the lane from defenders playing him extra close, but he only takes about 15% of his shots from 0-3 feet over his career, compare that to Westbrook who takes 35% of his shots from that distance.TD21 and I had this disagreement in the NBA forum in October IIRC..I said I didn't think the Spurs would win the division, because it's going to take months to make this work..
They still might, since the Rockets don't look great and the Spurs still have enough talent to win games strictly on that, but I stand by my original prediction..I think people really underestimated the impact of re-structuring the entire offense, which is essentially what the Spurs are doing with the starting unit..
Other teams added pieces(Clippers, Thunder getting Durant, Houston getting Lawson, etc), but none of those teams are changing their philosophy and style of play..the Spurs are attempting to integrate a high-usage player that is accustomed to shooting a lot(Aldridge), continuing Kawhi's evolution into a lead guy, and trying to find a fit for an aging Parker, a guy that has been running the offense for over 10 years..not to mention Danny Green has never played in a different offensive system since he has been in the NBA, it's an adjustment for him, as well..
There was an assumption that Aldridge was going to fit naturally and that the Spurs are always a well-oiled machine that never has glitches, but that's just another example of the media/non-Spurs fans putting too much emphasis and giving too much credit to the Spurs system, rather than the actual players on the court
Pop has already stated that he isn't really looking to make adjustments with Aldridge, or overall, yet, as he wants to see how LA naturally plays before anything, which is the correct strategy IMO..he's not going to make any changes in the starting unit, especially 2 weeks into the season..
There's also the potential secret brilliance of Pop in this regard, reverting to a conventional, post/ISO-centric offense may be intentional to counter the Warriors' style of play..as overrated as they are, the Grizzlies did give GS some problems in the playoffs, their downfall being that they are very limited in talent, and giving playing time to terrible players like Tony Allen and having no star power..
With the current pieces on the team, the Spurs can utilize Memphis' defensive/ISO style of play, while having shooters(Green, Mills) and much superior star power/scoring(Aldridge, Leonard), along with a bench that is levels better than anything Memphis had, last year..I don't believe the Spurs can beat the Warriors at their own game, this isn't 2013 or 2014, maybe going the conventional route makes more sense, although obviously adjusting to 2016's style of the NBA, rather than 2005..
Seeing this game made me so happy.
It had the feeling of the first game of the season, whereas everyone was a having a good game relative to themsleves.
People made an appearance, and then they made play.
But tonight man, was special.
The beautiful game began to emerge when Manu Ginobili made back to back assists to LMA... A sorta alleyoop, but the next a gorgeous interior feed for an easy basket.
It's like everyone perked up.
KL who was already off to a great start, nails a 3.
Parker takes advantages of mismatches and scores off some penetration.
Diaw is quick with the ball, bein aggressive.
David West stays sharp but is fired up.
Anderson with what should be 2 blocks and a steal, with some tenascious defense.
Mills goes from making a few smart plays to igniting.
Rasual Butler is the savy vet with new legs.
Even Bobans dunk in the waning minutes was a moment in this game.
So many TEAM highlights.
5 games later and not only are they playing well as who they are, but now they are feeding off each other making everyone sharing being in the zone.
Imagine how they will be with more xp together, with more synergy.
They made the Kings quit tonight.
All this to go along with another all star game from KL and LMA playing physical enthusiastic defense while finding his finesse on his shot.
A+++++++ game
did Aldridge shoot more 3s in his Portland years?
Patty, Manu, Beli, Diaw, Baynes/Splitter/Duncan. The first couple of subs off the bench would set the tone with ball movement, and then it would continue throughout the game as players rotated in and out.
Many posters here downplayed his significance (because of his putrid defense) but Beli was a huge part of what the Spurs did during the regular season. The rotation tightens up in the postseason, and Green and Patty took turns getting hot in '13 and '14, so marco's importance was diminished. But you miss a guy like that during the first 82 games. His play-making and passing were very underrated.
Last edited by jag; 11-10-2015 at 09:19 AM.
Yeah but the core was always those 3. And TD of course, still a top 3 playmaker of the team at his age 1. Manu 2. Bobo 3. Timmy imho.
I think in yesterday´s game it was pretty obvious that having Duncan and Aldridge share court is not great for our offense.
Ball kept moving a lot with other combinations, like Aldridge/West (and Boris) and the starters and Duncan/West with the Subs. Also Aldridge/Boris did very well with the subs.
Playing Patty a lot with the starting five also seemed to help a lot when the team broke things open. We started the 4th 72-69 and after 9 minutes we were 100-80, that´s a 28-11 run right there. During that time the players on court were:
Mills - Ginobili - Leonard - West - Diaw from 72-69 to 86-78 (14-9 run)
Then Manu and West were replaced for Green and Aldridge. 86-78 to 96-80 (10-2 run)
West replaced Bobo for the last four minutes, and shared 1.10 minutes with the same core Mills - Green - Leonard and Aldridge. (4-0 in those possesions)
Then the scrubs got in.
Tim and Tony didn´t play in the fourth.
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