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Manu!!!!!!!!!!!!
Welcome back my nig.
Manu!!!!!!!!!!!!
Manu has been great.
<3...
Manu
3rd best Spur all time
2nd, tbh.
the heart and the soul- love it
Not better than Robinson
Manu has a higher career EFG and more intangibles. Can't say the D-Rob pick isn't logical. But Manu is a big game performer in ways D-Rob never was.
David was the better player, and the better Spur. And it's not close.
Robinson was better in basically every traditional and advanced statistic. Nearly double the VORP in the same number of years (80.9 vs 44.4). More win shares/48 (.250 vs .203). Higher PER (26.2 vs 21.1). He regularly led the team in five statistical categories. And David also was an MVP, DPOY, scoring champ, rebounding champ, and the team-before-self foundation of what became the Spurs of today. Without Robinson first taking a backseat to Duncan offensively (which NO ONE else of his stature would've done), and then flying back from Hawaii to pitch Tim on staying in SA in 2003, the Spurs of today don't even exist.
As for "big game performer..." Manu plays all out, but has cost us plenty of times too. Fouling Dirk in 2006? Going all-out-Manu-style and breaking his arm in 2011 (which likely cost us the Grizzlies series)? Manu having 8 turnovers in 2013 game 6?
I LOVE Manu. I think he's the man. Probably the most vocal compe or the Spurs have ever had, and the team's heart for the last decade and a half. I'd even go so far as to say he has a higher bbiq than David ever did (although, he also is probably one of the top 3-5 in that regards in the league even today).
But before ANY of this, there was David Robinson. One of the top athletes EVER to play in the NBA, and the guy who single-handedly carried this team to the playoffs year after year when they had no right being seen as a contender. More than anyone outside of Tim and Pop, he's the reason the Spurs are who they are.
I have no problem whatsoever with your post, except the bolded part. He broke his own arm? Pop and everybody else already knew he plays all out, that's an asset and why he's the compe or and winner he is. And FWIW, go watch that series again... he was far out the best player in that Grizzlies series, in one arm. That was a season where Pop really failed us, insisting with Bonner against ZBo while Splitter watched from the bench.
Spursfan should just be proud they have 5-7 guys that have done so much for the city and team, brought in 5 championships, made them proud, created indelible memories... they're all great in their own way.
Like KL, Manu also shooting over 50% and over 40% from 3.
Gervin was also better. There really is no question about this. He was our first Superstar.
Still appreciate Manu more for his dedication.
Those stats are abstract and aided by bulk minutes that D-Rob received. MVPs as well are based on bulk stats. Ginobili was arguably the most important player on championship teams; that was never D-Rob.
"Without Robinson first taking a backseat to Duncan offensively (which NO ONE else of his stature would've done)"
He did that b/c he embarrassed himself in 98 by not deferring to Timmy like he should have; and it probably cost him a ring he desperately wanted. And when he did it in 99, it's not like he had a ring on his resume. Your applauding D-Rob for a pretend selflessness when real selflessness is what Ginobili exemplified his entire career. Ginobili sacrificed money, all star appearances, stats; and he routinely did it all along.
You end your argument with an idea that D-Rob is a foundation in addition to Pop/Tim. The same couldn't be said of Manu? Tim may have never won another ring w/o Manu.
Last edited by Spurtacular; 11-22-2015 at 04:53 PM.
wanting him to drop a random 30 point game on some fools in actual game and here on ST..i think he can do it with hot-hand sequence especially with the way he is shooting the 3 ball this season..
Actually the advanced stats I listed like PER (David is 5th ALL TIME in that, btw) and win shares/48 are NOT aided by bulk minutes. In fact, many people think that PER favors players that play fewer minutes.
And as for David "embarrassing himself in '98 by not deferring to Timmy"... that's simply not true. Robinson took 14.6 shots/game that year, compared to Tim taking 15.7. David did average more points, more blocks, and more steals than Tim did that year, so I'm not sure how in the world he "embarrassed himself." He shot somewhat poorly when they got eliminated by the Jazz I guess, but still put up 18.8 pts, 12.6 rebs, and 3.8 blks per game in that series. Again, HARDLY embarrassing himself. Put a rookie David on the Spurs in 2003, we win 7-8 les in the last decade. David was THAT good.
And yes, Manu DID sacrifice his whole career. I love him for that. But David set the tone for what has become the Spurs culture, and that gets overlooked far too often.
Anyway, this is a strange conversation, because I in NO way am attempting to diminish the accomplishments of Manu Ginobili. He's one of my all-time favorite players, and someone I consistently argue in favor of in terms of his place among the all-time greats. One of the all-time fiercest compe ors, greatest bball minds, and one of the top 2-guards of his generation. I've watched the whole career of both Manu and David. They both are special, special players, and I feel so blessed to have them both represent my team. I just get irritated when people feel the need to take one of the greatest basketball players of all time, and the foundation of this team before the current generation, and tear them down to build up Manu (or anyone else for that matter). Same reason I'd defend Manu, or Tim, or Tony against fans of Kawhi that need to tear them down to build up their new hero.
This thread should be about Manu anyway, not about other players. Bat-slapping, no-look passing, dagger-shooting, gold medal-winning, "he's Manu Ginobili." Let's focus on that, not on attacking him or other Spurs greats.
You speak of regular season stats. Surely, you aren't ignorant to the playoffs, particularly the Utah series.
I don't overlook it. I acknowledge D-Rob's part in helping to create a winning culture; and I've acknowledged that opinion that D-Rob is the second best Spur of all-time is a legitimate opinion. It's just not my opinion. Ginobili is/was the money player that D-Rob never really was. Too often, the buck is passed to teammates. I think that's too easy, though.
I addressed exactly this TWO SENTENCES LATER.
But Manu has never had to be "the money player" for the Spurs in a way that David was. He never had to try carrying mediocre talent to the playoffs or deep contention. He's never been far and away the number one option on offense OR defense like David was (on both sides) for years.
All that said, everyone is en led to their opinion. Most franchises would kill to have Manu or David. We got both. Go Spurs Go.
D-Rob: Phenomenal athlete. Great defensive player. The problem is that the was a number one option for so long. I don't think that was ever such a great idea.
And sure, Manu never had so much on his back. And maybe, if Manu and D-Rob switched eras, the Spurs would have accomplished more. But I wouldn't bet against a Manu led team not making a Finals or two either.
David Robinson is a top 15-20 player of all-time...I'm a huge Manu fan and think he gets underrated on an all-time scale due to him not having the raw numbers that fans are enamored with, but putting him ahead of D-Rob is a massive, massive stretch
Well, tbf, we're talking Spurs rankings and not outright player rankings. Effect on team chemistry, etc is a factor weighted more than in typical more raw talent rankings.David Robinson is a top 15-20 player of all-time...I'm a huge Manu fan and think he gets underrated on an all-time scale due to him not having the raw numbers that fans are enamored with, but putting him ahead of D-Rob is a massive, massive stretch
I'm a massive Manu fan but if you look at the numbers objectively it goes:
1-Duncan
2-Robinson
3-Gervin
4-Parker*
5-Ginobili*
*Manu is clearly a better player than Tony but Tony has the numbers and accolades.
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