As bad as the offense "looks," it is still ranked

[TD 21]

What you state here has more to do with Danny being in a shooting slump (that has been trending on the positive side by the way), than with Rasual or Anderson.

I do think Rasual has been off, but he's also played irregular minutes and shooters need to keep shooting to break through. He may catch a rhythm yet. His defense has been solid and he's been giving the Spurs quality minutes.

We already knew Anderson was not a 3 pt threat except from the corners and he is not a prolific shooter anyway. His best feature is passing and he is not exactly the best fit in the bench which already has many players who can pass the ball at an elite level and his skillset becomes more redundant.

I think the most significant with Anderson is that he's been at his best in the SL, which has lacked ball movement and playmaking, and the past couple of games he has provided solid play with them, both defensively and offensively.

He's a project for the future sure, but contending teams already have very solid rosters, and can afford to have 1 or 2 young players to develop in order to refresh and renew talent. Last year those two project players were terrible (Ayres and Daye), so to have Anderson, Simmons and Boban to develop at the end of the bench is a huge improvement.

What the team really needs is for Danny and Lamarcus to play better offensively.

No, it doesn't. It has to do with the lack of a quality fourth wing, why is why Pop is desperately trying to avoid playing a fourth. Besides, even though Green is due to progress to the mean (and is in the process of doing so), Leonard, Ginobili and to a lesser extent Mills, are all due to regress to the mean.

Butler has "been off" since sometime around mid season last season. At his age, it's possible he's just done, despite the surprising athleticism. Even if he's not, they need a more versatile shooter anyway.

Funny how so many now concede that Anderson is a poor fit for the bench, yet when I said it in the summer, the general consensus was otherwise.

I'm all for having intriguing projects to develop . . . on the third unit/in the D-League. In the present, this team needs someone good enough to be a fourth wing on a contender.

[SAGirl]

No, it doesn't. It has to do with the lack of a quality fourth wing, why is why Pop is desperately trying to avoid playing a fourth. Besides, even though Green is due to progress to the mean (and is in the process of doing so), Leonard, Ginobili and to a lesser extent Mills, are all due to regress to the mean.

Butler has "been off" since sometime around mid season last season. At his age, it's possible he's just done, despite the surprising athleticism. Even if he's not, they need a more versatile shooter anyway.

Funny how so many now concede that Anderson is a poor fit for the bench, yet when I said it in the summer, the general consensus was otherwise.

I'm all for having intriguing projects to develop . . . on the third unit/in the D-League. In the present, this team needs someone good enough to be a fourth wing on a contender.

I am not conceding, I am being a realist in that the bench already has terrific passing, so what Anderson adds to the bench they already have a lot of. Its like bringing a guy who is an elite rebounder to a team that already has some of the best rebounders in the game. It makes the guy you brought become redundant, since there are only so many rebounds to grab in a game. It's a simplistic way of putting it, but Anderson's playmaking (his best asset at this early stage, together with his defense and rebounding) is not needed in the bench, therefore, it becomes redundant there. Our bench is already elite and doing well, so I don't know why you keep harping on the 4th wing.

Anderson's contribution has really come alive with the starters, because they at times get stagnant, and do lack playmaking, off the ball movement and tend to iso and hero ball a whole lot. Therefore, whenever you have Anderson there at anything from the 2-4 spot he's helped that lineup improve. Pop is not going to bench anyone in our starting lineup on account of this, Anderson has just highlighted how much more ball movement, and off the ball movement they need.

You are too premature to proclaim Butler done. Like I said, his playtime has been irregular and Pop's reasons for the lineups he's used may have absolutely nothing to do with Butler being done.

For the minutes they play, and the usage they get, Lamarcus and Danny increasing their level of play is more significant.

By the way, on another team, Anderson may already be playing regular minutes. 10-15 minutes is not out of the realm of possibility for him. Heck a guy like Ray who was averaging more than that last season is playing even less than Anderson. At this point, Anderson is not a dleaguer, neither is Ray.

[Kawhitstorm]

Aldridge's jump shot has been uncharacteristically bad, too..it should positively regress, eventually..

Don't forget Danny

[TD 21]

I am not conceding, I am being a realist in that the bench already has terrific passing, so what Anderson adds to the bench they already have a lot of. Its like bringing a guy who is an elite rebounder to a team that already has some of the best rebounders in the game. It makes the guy you brought become redundant, since there are only so many rebounds to grab in a game. It's a simplistic way of putting it, but Anderson's playmaking (his best asset at this early stage, together with his defense and rebounding) is not needed in the bench, therefore, it becomes redundant there. Our bench is already elite and doing well, so I don't know why you keep harping on the 4th wing.

Anderson's contribution has really come alive with the starters, because they at times get stagnant, and do lack playmaking, off the ball movement and tend to iso and hero ball a whole lot. Therefore, whenever you have Anderson there at anything from the 2-4 spot he's helped that lineup improve. Pop is not going to bench anyone in our starting lineup on account of this, Anderson has just highlighted how much more ball movement, and off the ball movement they need.

You are too premature to proclaim Butler done. Like I said, his playtime has been irregular and Pop's reasons for the lineups he's used may have absolutely nothing to do with Butler being done.

For the minutes they play, and the usage they get, Lamarcus and Danny increasing their level of play is more significant.

By the way, on another team, Anderson may already be playing regular minutes. 10-15 minutes is not out of the realm of possibility for him. Heck a guy like Ray who was averaging more than that last season is playing even less than Anderson. At this point, Anderson is not a dleaguer, neither is Ray.

Everything in bold is made up/misinterpreted.

That would be conceding. And to think you had the audacity to claim that I can't admit when I'm wrong. You could have at least given me the "give it more time" line.

Fourth wing is absolutely an issue, which is why Pop, who loves to balance out the minutes as much as possible, has resorted to playing Leonard high 30's minutes regularly and playing Parker and Mills together.

When Ginobili and/or Leonard get their inevitable 2-4 week injury (unfortunately, Green is long overdue one of these), it'll be even more of an issue.

[SAGirl]

Everything in bold is made up/misinterpreted.

That would be conceding. And to think you had the audacity to claim that I can't admit when I'm wrong. You could have at least given me the "give it more time" line.

Fourth wing is absolutely an issue, which is why Pop, who loves to balance out the minutes as much as possible, has resorted to playing Leonard high 30's minutes regularly and playing Parker and Mills together.

When Ginobili and/or Leonard get their inevitable 2-4 week injury (unfortunately, Green is long overdue one of these), it'll be even more of an issue.

See you have to get all personal and offended, and that is by far not my style.
I merely disagree with you, and I have no interest in getting all argumentative and arrogant. When the injured guys are some of your best players, yes their loss will be felt, but since we have a winning record, and Kawhi already sat 1 game, Manu two, and Lamarcus two so far, excuse me if I don't share your pessimistic view.

[midnightpulp]

The offense is still efficient, but it's not explosive and it's doubtful as to whether that's going to change, since it's now been a season plus of this and seven of the top eight have been intact throughout.

The three-point percentage is fine right now, but they're 22nd/23rd in makes and attempts. Combined that with being dead last in free throw rate and playing at a slow pace and you've got a limited offense.

It's abundantly clear that they're going to have to upgrade fourth wing at some point. They essentially need a Neal/Belinelli type (I brought up Ellington a few weeks ago; he's having a terrible season, but I still like the fit). Someone who can hit threes in bunches and do so off the dribble/screens.

Since this team is struggling mightily to blow teams out and can't afford to waste many meaningful minutes on Anderson/Butler, they're having to resort to playing Leonard high 30's every game and a Parker/Mills back court for stretches, which can only work in certain match-ups.

Despite our bickering, I generally agree with you on your takes, and the lack of not only a scoring wing (this wouldn't be a problem if Manu wasn't 100 and could play a consistent 25-30 minutes per game, every game) but a 3-and-D SF to back up Kawhi is a slight problem. Golden State took that next leap when they got Iggy. Their SRS went from 1.13 to over 5 from '13 to '14, and that was with Mark Jackson coaching. If we had someone like that off the bench, it's GG NBA. I'm not sold on Anderson yet, although when he comes in for Kawhi, it's proven dominant (small 17 min sample size though).

I think the offense will become less limited once the chemistry sets in. This team can score from a variety of post-positions and mid range spots, more than any other team by far, that will invariably open up the 3 point shot even more. We lack elite penetration, though, and there's just no around that right now (although Kawhi is becoming more aggressive).

[YGWHI]

Looks like the team is having an adjustment period from the 'beautiful game' to a 'front line centric' mid-range game with lots more ISOs by LMA and Kwahi into the paint area for short jumpers. Who knows, Pop may have started a new fad that the league will try to copy if we win another championship with it.

Well...it seems ST narrative, but I wouldn't say a lot of ISOs. At least, not Kawhi's isos.

Kawhi's having 3.5 more possessions than last season, but only one of those is self-created (iso, post-up), he's getting more possessions within the flow of the offense.

2014: Self-created:5.5 Team-created:6.5

2015 Self-created:6.5 Team-created:8.8

[TD 21]

See you have to get all personal and offended, and that is by far not my style.
I merely disagree with you, and I have no interest in getting all argumentative and arrogant. When the injured guys are some of your best players, yes their loss will be felt, but since we have a winning record, and Kawhi already sat 1 game, Manu two, and Lamarcus two so far, excuse me if I don't share your pessimistic view.

How did I get personal? You're clearly the one who got offended, because you took my comments as a slight on Anderson.

The Spurs' record is primarily a reflection of the compe ion or lack thereof; not their level of play. Having a key player sit out a game here or there is not exactly being decimated by injury either.

Despite our bickering, I generally agree with you on your takes, and the lack of not only a scoring wing (this wouldn't be a problem if Manu wasn't 100 and could play a consistent 25-30 minutes per game, every game) but a 3-and-D SF to back up Kawhi is a slight problem. Golden State took that next leap when they got Iggy. Their SRS went from 1.13 to over 5 from '13 to '14, and that was with Mark Jackson coaching. If we had someone like that off the bench, it's GG NBA. I'm not sold on Anderson yet, although when he comes in for Kawhi, it's proven dominant (small 17 min sample size though).

I think the offense will become less limited once the chemistry sets in. This team can score from a variety of post-positions and mid range spots, more than any other team by far, that will invariably open up the 3 point shot even more. We lack elite penetration, though, and there's just no around that right now (although Kawhi is becoming more aggressive).

It's a luxury to have two 3 and D wings as is; having three is something only the Warriors possess. As nice of a get as Iguodala was, he's down the list of reasons for their leap. I maintain that a shooting/scoring, secondary ball handling wing, is a greater need.

I'm not down on Anderson long term, but he's probably not ready to be a rotation player for a contender and even if he was, he's a poor fit. Reminds me of Joseph back in '13.

Unfortunately, the limited offense probably has more to do with personnel than chemistry. They're not built to be uptempo and they lack volume three-point shooters and players that get to the line at a high rate.

[SAGirl]

How did I get personal? You're clearly the one who got offended, because you took my comments as a slight on Anderson.

The Spurs' record is primarily a reflection of the compe ion or lack thereof; not their level of play. Having a key player sit out a game here or there is not exactly being decimated by injury either.

I am not offended. Truly to be on this site you can't get offended by shyt.
Like I said I merely disagree with you, and I have no problem considering differing opinions. I actually like to read what others think concerning basketball, as long as its not trolling and I would not call you a troll. You talking about conceding and audacity is maybe taking it too far. It seems like you are the one who can't consider differing opinions without blowing a gasket. lol

[TD 21]

I am not offended. Truly to be on this site you can't get offended by shyt.
Like I said I merely disagree with you, and I have no problem considering differing opinions. I actually like to read what others think concerning basketball, as long as its not trolling and I would not call you a troll. You talking about conceding and audacity is maybe taking it too far. It seems like you are the one who can't consider differing opinions without blowing a gasket. lol

I was obviously being sarcastic when I said conceding and audacity. I thought that went without saying.

Should I have also prefaced everything with "I think" or "tbh" or can it just be presumed that if I wrote it, I think it and that I'm being honest, since there's no reason not to be?

[SAGirl]

I was obviously being sarcastic when I said conceding and audacity. I thought that went without saying.

Should I have also prefaced everything with "I think" or "tbh" or can it just be presumed that if I wrote it, I think it and that I'm being honest, since there's no reason not to be?

Its hard to tell sarcasm unless you blue font it, if its not a joke, specially because the tone of your posts don't make it seem like you like to crack jokes, or have a witty sense of humor. But its really hard to tell in print, don't you think? I can detect you are wanting to be sarcastic asking me about this.

But with that cleared up, I think neither of us care too much about this.

You have a valid point if Manu breaks down on us. If he's healthy our bench is elite. If he's out, it could be trouble. You are assuming there will be trouble, and it could be trouble.

I love Kyle but I don't think he's ready for a big role yet, he has to develop and build into that role, if he's ever going to get there. You can only get him there eventually, through some playtime, development and work in the gym. Even then, Manu is a HOF type player and once in a generation. It will take a team effort to replace what he provides if he's out, and maybe tweaking personnel when he retires.

For now, Pop has gone to Patty a whole lot for his scoring and I think with the rest of the guys in the bench, they should be able to do well enough, if Danny and Lamarcus getting out of their offensive doldrum. You should not need your bench to rescue your SL every time. If that wasn't happening almost every game, the Manu situation would not be as signficiant as it is. That is why I say the problem to me resides more with Danny/Lamarcus.

[spursistan]

Pop is pretty aware of this reality....he acknowledged after the Mavs the team being carried mostly by the D..

“Our offense overall is a little bit rickety,” said coach Gregg Popovich, whose team gave up no more than 84 points on the three-game homestand. “It’s not very rhythmic or consistent. But we’re playing pretty hard on defense and that’s what’s keeping us in games.”

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/sp...vs-6658287.php

[TD 21]

Its hard to tell sarcasm unless you blue font it, if its not a joke, specially because the tone of your posts don't make it seem like you like to crack jokes, or have a witty sense of humor. But its really hard to tell in print, don't you think? I can detect you are wanting to be sarcastic asking me about this.

But with that cleared up, I think neither of us care too much about this.

You have a valid point if Manu breaks down on us. If he's healthy our bench is elite. If he's out, it could be trouble. You are assuming there will be trouble, and it could be trouble.

I love Kyle but I don't think he's ready for a big role yet, he has to develop and build into that role, if he's ever going to get there. You can only get him there eventually, through some playtime, development and work in the gym. Even then, Manu is a HOF type player and once in a generation. It will take a team effort to replace what he provides if he's out, and maybe tweaking personnel when he retires.

For now, Pop has gone to Patty a whole lot for his scoring and I think with the rest of the guys in the bench, they should be able to do well enough, if Danny and Lamarcus getting out of their offensive doldrum. You should not need your bench to rescue your SL every time. If that wasn't happening almost every game, the Manu situation would not be as signficiant as it is. That is why I say the problem to me resides more with Danny/Lamarcus.

Another issue with fourth wing is Pop's current reluctance to utilize Diaw as a small ball PF. This is leading to too much small ball, for a team no longer built for it, as I explained in the latest Warriors thread.

The minutes of the majority of the five perimeter rotation players isn't a big issue given the recent schedule, but it will be if it continues. They've got to get a fourth wing, in the mold of Neal/Belinelli, to eat up minutes.

[SAGirl]

Another issue with fourth wing is Pop's current reluctance to utilize Diaw as a small ball PF. This is leading to too much small ball, for a team no longer built for it, as I explained in the latest Warriors thread.

The minutes of the majority of the five perimeter rotation players isn't a big issue given the recent schedule, but it will be if it continues. They've got to get a fourth wing, in the mold of Neal/Belinelli, to eat up minutes.

I am sure Pop misses Belinelli a whole lot. Butler is not his equivalent. I am not sure what the answer is for Pop. I don't think its sustainable the rate at which we are going with the wing rotation. Danny is underperforming. With his age and his skill, he could theoretically give you 34-36 minutes of play, but he's not. Not only is he shooting icy/hot more on the icy, but he's not making good decisions with the ball. He's capable of giving you the 18 pts. he gave you in the Suns game and then come up with complete stinkers. He's always been like that, but add to that all the off-the-dribble plays and bad 2 pt looks he's taking and he's not been good enough. That might be the elephant in the room.

Not sure what is up with Diaw. Kyle has done better in true small/ball. Diaw has looked out of sorts against true perimeter units, and is also falling back to a passive state.

[spursistan]

We just padded that OFFENSIVE Rating in the Sixers blowout Spurs are third in the league..

http://stats.nba.com/league/team/#!/...F_RATING&dir=1

[Mr Bones]

The anticipation of Spurs vs Warriors is shaping up to be a classic statistical match up... The Warriors have the highest rated offense by a large margin and the Spurs have the highest rated defense by a large margin. But it's actually more complex than that: The Warriors are currently 5th in defense and the Spurs are 3rd in offense.

[AFMadison]

The anticipation of Spurs vs Warriors is shaping up to be a classic statistical match up... The Warriors have the highest rated offense by a large margin and the Spurs have the highest rated defense by a large margin. But it's actually more complex than that: The Warriors are currently 5th in defense and the Spurs are 3rd in offense.

[TD 21]

The offense may be looking slightly more refined, but it's still not explosive and that's not going to change until Green starts looking like himself and they acquire a Neal/Belinelli type fourth wing. It would also be nice if Aldridge started shooting more threes, but that's not as vital.

[spursistan]

[ceperez]

The offense may be looking slightly more refined, but it's still not explosive and that's not going to change until Green starts looking like himself and they acquire a Neal/Belinelli type fourth wing. It would also be nice if Aldridge started shooting more threes, but that's not as vital.

Spurs don't want to peak too early. Pop doesn't want to show all his cards. What the Spurs are showing is just a glimpse of what they are capable of. They are barely struggling and most of the loses they looked like they just gave away.

I'm not even sure if any of the regular season games against the Warriors will reveal much. Spurs will try to size up their opponent and GSW will do likewise.

[DMC]

The anticipation of Spurs vs Warriors is shaping up to be a classic statistical match up... The Warriors have the highest rated offense by a large margin and the Spurs have the highest rated defense by a large margin. But it's actually more complex than that: The Warriors are currently 5th in defense and the Spurs are 3rd in offense.

Pop will rest his starters like he did in GS before. We still won.

[DMC]

Spurs don't want to peak too early. Pop doesn't want to show all his cards. What the Spurs are showing is just a glimpse of what they are capable of. They are barely struggling and most of the loses they looked like they just gave away.

I'm not even sure if any of the regular season games against the Warriors will reveal much. Spurs will try to size up their opponent and GSW will do likewise.

You want other teams to worry about you, to plan for you. That causes them to work harder. You want teams working harder.

Steve Kerr isn't in the least bit fooled by any early season Spurs offensive woes. He sees the defense and that's what worries him, because defense isn't a fluke. Steve isn't going to let his guys relax for a second.

[Mel_13]

Even better than the chart are the words that went along with it:

The pleasant surprise—and it really shouldn’t be a surprise after so many seasons of consistent greatness—is how machine-like San Antonio’s offensive improvement has been. Here’s a simple look at San Antonio’s offensive rating so far this season, at the two-week mark, the four-week mark, the six-week mark and through Monday’s game. The improvement is so steady that it’s a bit haunting, as if it’s going to continue refining itself forever like a deadly, mutating virus.

While the Warriors’ offense has been a non-stop fireworks show this season, the Spurs’ attack has been a thunderstorm gradually gaining momentum and force. Importantly, it shows no signs of easing up. On the contrary, there’s still untapped potential here, as Aldridge finds his bearings and Danny Green pulls out of an uncharacteristically shaky shooting start.

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/12/16/san...arcus-aldridge

[Brazil]

^good read

thanks Mel

[DPG21920]

I think everyone could see the potential oozing from this team since game 1. There are still big question marks (Danny shooting, TP sustaining & Manu as well). But with Kawhi still developing, LMA finding his groove and the defense answering all the questions/concerns with Tiago gone, it's all there.