Lakers: Kobe's retirement has more to do with a failure to adjust to the modern game than

[Killakobe81]

No, but at the end of the day the Lakers are a poorly-constructed team full of chuckers/low-IQ players. Some of that onus falls on management. It's not all the management. I also think the whole "scaring away FAs" thing has been slightly overblown. Aldridge even admitted that Kobe was the best part of his meeting with LA.

Come on now dont bring logic to a let's on Kobe fest. Im sure Deeps feels Aldridge was lying ...

[Killakobe81]

Really? Ya, that's why so many FAs came to LA over the last 4 years and why all the All Star FAs they had took less to leave. How about judging people on what they do vs what they say?

So the fact the Lakers suck and did a poor job in the showing how the incorporated metrics all of that was bull ?
Damn, Deeps didnt know you to be so close minded.

[Cry Havoc]

Come on now dont bring logic to a let's on Kobe fest. Im sure Deeps feels Aldridge was lying ...

Just because meeting Kobe was a good experience for LMA doesn't mean he's in a rush to go share the court with that dude. Same with Pau telling Marc to stay away. You think it was all about the management after the number of times Kobe went whining to the media about his teammates?

[RsxPiimp]

So the fact the Lakers suck and did a poor job in the showing how the incorporated metrics all of that was bull ?
Damn, Deeps didnt know you to be so close minded.

Deeps is still on that "Free Agents won't come to L.A. even after Kobe leaves" BS train

[midnightpulp]

Deeps is still on that "Free Agents won't come to L.A. even after Kobe leaves" BS train

Jim Buss and Byron Scott need to leave in order to make LA attractive again. NBA players are more sophisticated now. Pitching them bright lights and night life no longer cuts it. They know how dreadful and stuck in the stone age the Lakers front-office is. Jury is out on whether Mitch is doing Jim's bidding or is part of the problem himself.

[Killakobe81]

Just because meeting Kobe was a good experience for LMA doesn't mean he's in a rush to go share the court with that dude. Same with Pau telling Marc to stay away. You think it was all about the management after the number of times Kobe went whining to the media about his teammates?

Never said that they are in a rush to play with him ... Just not buying it's all on Kobe. Mid is right Byron at least needs to go ... even post Kobe for the LAkers to get any FA love.

[Killakobe81]

Jim Buss and Byron Scott need to leave in order to make LA attractive again. NBA players are more sophisticated now. Pitching them bright lights and night life no longer cuts it. They know how dreadful and stuck in the stone age the Lakers front-office is. Jury is out on whether Mitch is doing Jim's bidding or is part of the problem himself.

Gets it. IF it was all Kobe that would be easier for me as a Laker fan first. Now he is leaving that should solve all our woes ...right?
And in the end outside of losing Pau for nothing glad we dont have Melo, Dwight or Greg Monroe. Kobe Jimbo etc. saved us from ourselves. jury still outy on if LMa will be a good deal two years from now. Lakers better hope Druss, Randle and this year's picks pan out because in FA most of teh players are garbage or damaged goods. I was just telling a buddy something seems off with KD. Not sure I want him at max anymore either.

[Cry Havoc]

Never said that they are in a rush to play with him ... Just not buying it's all on Kobe. Mid is right Byron at least needs to go ... even post Kobe for the LAkers to get any FA love.

Obviously it's not all on Kobe. How much of it IS on Kobe is totally up for debate.

You have to concede that the management personnel of the Lakers, however terrible, is somewhat offset by the fact that LA is one of the most desirable spots to play in the entire world. So just like you don't buy that it's all on Kobe, I don't buy that the incompetence of the Lakers FO is completely or even modestly offset by the lure of playing in Tinseltown.

[DPG21920]

Deeps is still on that "Free Agents won't come to L.A. even after Kobe leaves" BS train

Explain how it's bs. Because what you just quoted from Killa is him saying Kobe was not the problem. So if you are saying Kobe IS the problem, why are you quoting Killa saying something you don't even believe in?

[Koolaid_Man]

What a re ed thing to say, Kobe gave to basketball physically way more than any spur in history, that includes Duncan and robinson combined. Duncan is playing against washed up bigs, with no footwork, no post, no skills, and cant defend in general. People gave kobe their best every single night, the same cant be said about Duncan, who has been living in the shadows. And last but not least, Kobe carried the lakers. Kobe made them money, put people in the stands , and won rings. Adaption was not an issue, if kobe was healthy he would still be ting on the league, and If he was young kobe, in forget about it, there was no one on earth that could guard him one on one. He doesn't have his legs under him anymore, its that easy, its not skill its not mental. its the body. don't get it twisted.

No one wants to talk bout this knowledge you spittin

Hakeem Olajuwon said it best....the 2 guard position is the toughest position in all of basketball...and this is coming from a 4/ 5 position player...who in my view was 10x the player Tim Duncan ever was....its not even close comparing Hakeem who was far far superior offensively and defensively to Tim...but back to your point Tim Duncan had it easy...while the whole world was gunning for Kobe...every single night....his body gave out because he simply gave more..look at the global impact on the game...people around the world in every country from Asia, China especially China , the Middle East, just about every country in Europe, South America, Africa you name it they all worship Kobe....

The US business moguls from Apple CEO, Facebook, Oprah Winfrey, billionaires such as Richard Branson, Warren Buffet, etc all doing business with and mentoring Kobe...all of the Hollywood elites love Kobe....Floyd Mayweather, Manny Paqucio and atheletes from across all sports such as football, baseball etc all point to Kobe as their inspiration....99% of the All-time greats such as MJ, Kareem, Dr J, Larry Bird, Magic, even Red Auerbach's daughter all have Kobe ranked behind MJ....99% of current players including every rookie class since 2000 all have Kobe as their favorite player and the consensus #2 behind MJ....almost every Olympic atheistic from every country in the world all love Kobe.. don't make me bump all my old threads on how all those white female Olympians from the Swim teams, to the Vollyball teams to the soccer teams all going crazy over that when he steps into the building...I'm jealous as of this

But my point is simple...Tim Duncan pales in comparison to Kobe....its not even close in the grand scheme of things...that's why I let Spur fans have their moment...deep inside they know Tim is not on Kobes level...and if they don't they're delusional...what I've just layed out is proof...Tim plays in pressure less Market...where court side seats sell for as low as 13 cents no way the accomplishments are the same...every night as you mentioned teams ran 2 and 3 athletic wing defenders at Kobe at all times...some of the games most atheletic and compe ive players we've ever seen...

From MJ, to Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Steve Nash, Tracy Mcgrady, Allen Iverson, Dwade, Lebron James, Mike Bobby, Ron Artest, Tony Allen, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Bruce Bowen, Doug Christie, Rueben Patterson, Grant Hill, Jason Richardson, Vince Carter, Jason Kidd, Jamal Masburn, Jimmy Jackson, Kevin Durant, Westbrook, and on and on and on and on....

What's even more astounding aside from the partial list of tough players Kobe had to defend and play against is the fact that once he got past those athletic players he had to deal with the bigs down low from the 3 to the 5 positions and boy did he ever...thats why I laugh my ass off when people like DPG, Splits, Midnight Pulp, DMC, and KillaKobe say that Duncan was a better player and had a better career..especially in light of position played, le defense and Olympic team contribution...the level of ignorance they show is astounding....

But like I said let them have their moment

[DPG21920]

What's kind of amusing is watching Killa & Rsx band together even though collectively they agree with what I've said and don't agree with what the other said

I said most of what has happened is on Kobe. His style play, failure to adapt, running teammates off, taking massive contracts, etc...I also said that I think while it's on Kobe mostly, LA will still struggle to land FA's after Kobe is gone due to their terrible drafting and poor front office.

Killa says it's on the front office & agrees they will struggle with FA's even when Kobe is gone
RSX says I'm silly for saying FA's won't come after Kobe is gone impying it's on Kobe

So they both agree with me overall and don't agree with each other.

[Raven]

OP is right.

[daslicer]

What's kind of amusing is watching Killa & Rsx band together even though collectively they agree with what I've said and don't agree with what the other said

I said most of what has happened is on Kobe. His style play, failure to adapt, running teammates off, taking massive contracts, etc...I also said that I think while it's on Kobe mostly, LA will still struggle to land FA's after Kobe is gone due to their terrible drafting and poor front office.

Killa says it's on the front office & agrees they will struggle with FA's even when Kobe is gone
RSX says I'm silly for saying FA's won't come after Kobe is gone impying it's on Kobe

So they both agree with me overall and don't agree with each other.

I would say they will have an easy time getting FA's now that Kobe is gone but that doesn't guarantee they will be relevant again. It will depend on the type of FA's they sign for example will they sign an overrated empty stat type of player like Kevin Love or go after a chucker like Westbrook. I think their team will be run the same way the Knicks have been run the last 15 years or so.

[DPG21920]

That goes for everyone though - meaning the choices you make. What's more important IMO is getting what you want. Plan A. Whether it works or not is up to a lot of variables, but LA used to always get what they wanted. Not in the last 4 years though.

If they are still relegated to second class citizens after Kobe (I think there's a good shot) it's an issue. They have no Kobe, a ton of money & they are LA. If they whiff on the top 2-3 FAs (Durant, etc..) you'll know the truth. They will sign someone of course but it will be obvious who is plan A. It still may work out for LA getting whomever they get, but it won't be because it was their plan A.

They may luck into a decent team which is besides the point.

[ambchang]

Never said that they are in a rush to play with him ... Just not buying it's all on Kobe. Mid is right Byron at least needs to go ... even post Kobe for the LAkers to get any FA love.

Honestly I don't think Kobe gets all the blame on the FA issue in LA but he does play a huge part in it.

Athletes want a few things: money, fame, winning. They are somehow inter related as winning usually leads to the other two and big markets like LA and NY just gets you more fame and money.

The problem in LA is that Kobe took up a lot of the money. Even though they can offer the max, they cannot provide the fame as Kobe is taking all the credit regardless, and they are not getting advertising dollars as we can see with MVPau. So given the same max deals, FA naturally would choose a place that can give them a better chance at winning and/or better opportunities for advertising dollars that came from winning.

But then you can also directly lead the losing to Kobe as he has really dragged the franchise down. I really believe the treatment of MVPau turned away a lot of players. Statistically speaking, he was the main reason for the lakers success, and with the way the lakers offense was constructed, it's hard for you to argue the other way either. However, he was treated like a punching bag. He got all the blame and none of the credit and it was largely because of how Kobe uses the media to jab him time and time again. Players saw that and didn't want to be a part of it. Who wants to do all the work and not get any of the credit while getting all the blame when things go sour? Put on your big boy pants? It was condescending, especially considering the fact that lakers were struggling to get to the playoffs without MVPau and became le favourites for three years in a row with him. It was disgraceful and players want no part of that.

[ambchang]

What a re ed thing to say, Kobe gave to basketball physically way more than any spur in history, that includes Duncan and robinson combined. Duncan is playing against washed up bigs, with no footwork, no post, no skills, and cant defend in general. People gave kobe their best every single night, the same cant be said about Duncan, who has been living in the shadows. And last but not least, Kobe carried the lakers. Kobe made them money, put people in the stands , and won rings. Adaption was not an issue, if kobe was healthy he would still be ting on the league, and If he was young kobe, in forget about it, there was no one on earth that could guard him one on one. He doesn't have his legs under him anymore, its that easy, its not skill its not mental. its the body. don't get it twisted.

Yeah because going up against the weakest era of SG I'd much tougher than going up against shaq, kg, dirk, Dwight, Yao, Ben Wallace, Randolph, the gasol brothers, and a bunch of brushing bigs.

Who did Kobe went up against? Tmac, Vince, Allen, wade and now harden. None of them are even in the top 20 all time.