russia deploying missile cruiser. all weapons go 2 destroy any threat 2 russian units

[pgardn]

Um, you do know Turkmen fight side-by-side with Al Nusra right?

"The two pilots found themselves in territory which the government of President Assad has been fighting over against the Free Syrian Army, that is, Turkmen militia fighting side-by-side the al-Nusra front."

http://neurope.eu/article/second-russian-pilot-safe/

do you know who al-Nusra Front is?

A lot of rebel groups are fighting with loosely affiliated Al Q groups. Then when they have no more enemy, they turn on each other. You think this is some sort of blood bond between all these groups?

[pgardn]

Note that the Russian plane was downed right on the proposed NO FLY ZONE:


This is no coincidence. Turkey Air Force is already escorting the incursion of thousands of jihadists trained and armed by the US through that area.

Make no mistake about it. This was no accident. Yesterday was just the beginning of the implementation of the No Fly Zone. Turkmen + Al Nusra (Al Qaeda) which equates to the Free Syrian Army is planning to take over that region and they are already testing the Russians in the area.

I would not be surprised to hear that US will start flying their planes closer to the area, to "de-conflict" and "stabilize". that will be just a front to start taking over the airspace. I will not be surprised if we see a few dogfights between Russians and US/Turkish jets in the coming weeks or at least a barrage of Anti Aircraft Missiles from both sides. Russia might have the upper hand in this as they have installed s400 systems, the most advanced air defense in the world. But obviously US planes are superior.

If the West is successful with this, they will start filling that No Fly Zone with civilians and basically use them as human shields, while using that zone as a corridor to send in thousands of jihadists straight to the heart of Assad's territory.

Make no mistake about it, the battle for the No Fly Zone has started.

Nope.

Bolded False.

[pgardn]

just as I type that, here we go:

Turkey will not be using those for "defensive" purposes. they will be used to pave the way for the No Fly Zone

The Turkish situation is much more complicated than the above.
Much more...

What group has by far and away bore the brunt of the Turkish military action in this region?

[cheguevara]

A lot of rebel groups are fighting with loosely affiliated Al Q groups. Then when they have no more enemy, they turn on each other. You think this is some sort of blood bond between all these groups?

So you are ok with supporting al-Nusra (Al Qaeda)?

[pgardn]

So you are ok with supporting al-Nusra (Al Qaeda)?

Where did I state this?

Who bears the brunt of current Turkish military aggression?

[cheguevara]

Where did I state this?

you stated this. of the "moderate" rebels:

They kill people that attack them directly. They don't bomb young people who don't even know who ISIS is in Paris. Pretty bad guys though.

yet according to EU Belgian news:

"The two pilots found themselves in territory which the government of President Assad has been fighting over against the Free Syrian Army, that is, Turkmen militia fighting side-by-side the al-Nusra front."

http://neurope.eu/article/second-russian-pilot-safe/

Logical fallacy. You despise ISIS because they bomb innocent people, yet you seem to be ok with "moderate" rebels which also bomb innocent people. (Al Qaeda)

[DJR210]

Russia deploying several anti-air vehicles to the area per their defense ministers Twitter ( modern war) feed

Sucks. WW3 is probably gonna go down sooner than I thought.. This is gonna spill over into the South China Sea and s really gonna hit the fan. At least we're in the hole however many trillions having spent a bulk of that on defense.

[pgardn]

you stated this. of the "moderate" rebels:


yet according to EU Belgian news:


Logical fallacy. You despise ISIS because they bomb innocent people, yet you seem to be ok with "moderate" rebels which also bomb innocent people. (Al Qaeda)

Again, quit putting words in my posts.

And Again, what do you expect from a group like this that has been bombed by the Russians, you expect them to send the UN a letter protesting? They think the pilots are a gift from God for them to slaughter.

You are exactly like quite a few on this site. You rank the evil in people who don't regard life as sacred. And then side with the perceived least evil.. Hater is an Assad apologist because he opposes Al Q rebels, like this somehow makes Assad a good guy... When Assad is a murdering dictator... And you try to point to my logical fallacies. Give it a break.
Did you expect the Russians to be treated humanely because they are NOT US citizens?

The Free Syrian army is given different definitions of composition depending on who has a case to make them bad or good guys. At best they are a mish mash of many different groups opposed to Assad, some of which the US decided to arm.

[pgardn]

So Che, who have the Turkish put by far the most effort in fighting? Answer this please.

[angrydude]

Oh, now it's before Paris.
Paris happened bud. And before that there were bombings claimed in other places.
Your problem is you try to rank really bad people and then go with people like Assad, who you think is some sort of noble kitty cat. News flash, they all are bad. You pick the bad that suits your distorted preconceived notions.

Um no. You don't pick any side and you stay out of it.

[pgardn]

Um no. You don't pick any side and you stay out of it.

Thank you Rand.

[hater]

F-22, a stealth fighter, is supposedly able to handle the s400. Nothing else is though.

[RandomGuy]

They are considered moderate because they are largely Engaged against ISIS. When they get bombed by Russian planes you expect they will be nice to the pilots of the country that has been bombing them.

I would not expect that no, although outright execution is something that should still be strongly condemned.

[RandomGuy]

it was a helicopter on a rescue mission, not a bomber.

and did you totally ignore where he said they shot at a parachutist on purpose? I believe that's a war crime.

I think that shooting at a parachuting pilot is a war crime. Shouldn't happen.

Can't fault the ground forces for shooting at a helicopter though. I doubt the Russians coordinated with the people they were bombing to let them know a rescue mission was underway.

Shooting at helicopters that aren't identified as friendly, is not quite a war crime, c'est va?

[boutons_deux]

"I think that shooting at a parachuting pilot is a war crime"

why? parachuting from a bomb-dropping, shooting war plane, and very definitely side-armed, he/she is a combatant

[pgardn]

I would not expect that no, although outright execution is something that should still be strongly condemned.

My point is that this is not a group that is going to follow the rules of engagement that the UN expects.

[hater]

The Pentagon plans to send a special operations intelligence and strike force of between 100 and 150 troops to Iraq to conduct raids on Islamic State targets in Iraq and Syria, a senior Defense official told USA TODAY Tuesday.

Carter was quoted as saying this is "in full cooperation of the government of Iraq"

not so fast....

Iraqi prime minister Haider al-Abadi has rejected the need for foreign troops to fight Islamic State after the United States said it was deploying a special operations force to conduct raids, free hostages, capture IS leaders and carry out "unilateral operations" in Syria.

"We do not need foreign ground combat forces on Iraqi land," Mr Abadi said in a statement.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-0...-state/6992618



Ash Carter

what a ing clown

[hater]

let me get this straight. Kerry/Carter have been kicked out of Syria by Putin and now kicked out of Iraq by Haider al-Abadi

what an embarrassment

[boutons_deux]

could be hundreds of US military, and $Bs more wasted, into the Repug quagmire

Obama Sends Special Operations Forces to Help Fight ISIS in Syria

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/31/wo...mic-state.html

[in2deep]

looks like Pandora's box has been opened. Bombing Syria won't do anything to ISIS. They can easily move operations between Lybia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.

Interestingly these are the 4 countries destabilized by the West...

[in2deep]

oh and forgot about Yemen. 5 countries bombed by West/Arab allies.

[boutons_deux]

looks like Pandora's box has been opened. Bombing Syria won't do anything to ISIS. They can easily move operations between Lybia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.

Interestingly these are the 4 countries destabilized by the West...

ISIS needs to hold territory to be a legitimate, credible caliphate for recruiting suckers. The West will keep chasing them, eg, bombing them in Libya, etc.

===========

'ISIS made me clean the toilets... and my iPod didn't work': How disenchanted Islamic fanatics are returning home because jihad isn't as glamorous as they hoped

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-toilets.html


======

ISIS Defectors Reveal Disillusionment


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/wo...usionment.html

===========

Does ISIS Have a Cash Flow Problem?


http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world...have_left.html

==========

It looks like ISIS is as fraudulent as capitalism

[RandomGuy]

My point is that this is not a group that is going to follow the rules of engagement that the UN expects.

No, it will not.

What I find somewhat ironic is that the Turks are protecting Turkoman minorities in Syria, much like what Russia says its interests are in Ukraine. Russia seems to find this motivation inconvenient when others do it.

[hater]

oh and forgot about Yemen. 5 countries bombed by West/Arab allies.

that's correct. that's 5 out of 5 for the West/NATO.

of the 5 countries they have claimed to have spread democracy to, 5 are now host bases for ISIS and Al Qaeda

[hater]

Spinning their wheels in Syria: US Air Force has been returning to base with unused bombs and missiles

http://www.sott.net/article/307637-S...bs-and-missles

The American bombing campaign, for what it's worth, has been focused on Syrian civilian and Syrian military infrastructure.

For instance, as Russian forces dropped bombs and missiles on top of ISIS fighters all across Syria, lobbing cruise missiles from the Caspian, regular sortie missions, and combat helicopter attacks against ISIS and other "relatively moderate" cannibals and terrorists, the United States launched a bombing mission of its own against two power plants in Aleppo.

The power plants were located in al-Rudwaniya east of Aleppo and resulted in power outages affecting the Syrian people, adding to the American tradition of bombing civilian infrastructure instead of ISIS and other terrorist targets in Syria.

Yet the targeting of Syrian civilian infrastructure is not the only reason that American bombs have avoided ISIS. Simply put, the U.S. Air Force is refusing to actually target ISIS to begin with and are returning to base with their missiles and bombs intact or having intentionally missed the target altogether.

This information, which had been reported in the past but is now being reported more and more in the open along with increasing confirmation, indicates that U.S Air Force pilots have only been using about 25% of their ordnance on targets in Syria (including the infrastructure targets actually being bombed).

U.S. Air Force pilots who have returned from bombing raids in Syria are reporting that they are being forced to return back to base with around 75% of their ordnance because they are unable to get clearance to actually launch the strikes.

The head of the Russian Parliament's International Affairs Committee, Alexei Pushkov, wrote that the United States actually spent an entire year bombing nothing but the desert as opposed to any ISIS targets.