Just barely ahead of LeBron, bigger lead on Paul George & Kevin Durant.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rp...RPM/position/5
For PER, the Top 4 are in this order:
Durant
Kawhi
LeBron
Paul George
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holli.../_/position/sf
Every stat has its strengths & shortcomings, but it's hard to argue with him being ranked at or near the top in so many different statistical approaches.
Keep doing your thing son....
I am going to deviate from the thread a bit to mention Danny looks aweful by any statistic you use ...
Simmons, Butler and Anderson look better than Danny.
Of course we all know none of these guys can do what Danny does, but it just sheds light on Danny's awful game to start the season. These three guys should not be better than Danny.
Yeah, every stat has glitches... ESPN's DRPM has Kawhi at #1 among all SFs, which makes sense, but it has Kyle Anderson at #2, ahead of LeBron, Paul George, Tony Allen, etc... Kyle's benefitting from the system on that one...
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rp...RPM/position/5
Kawhi is leading the league in 3 pt FG% at 50 %. Sit down Steph Curry.
Anderson is second in the league in DRPM for SFs. Get SAGirl in here to gloat. Actually, it doesn't remotely surprise me to see Kyle have great defensive numbers.
It's too bad that his offense is bad enough to cancel it out. But having a league-average player as your 9th or 10th man is quite the luxury.
Last year for the whole damn season, Al-Farouq Aminou was fourth, ahead of James and some other guys people have actually watched play. I've had this discussion (argument) with a couple of guys here before. Real Plus Minus, just like RAPM, tells you a few things everybody already knows - like "Kawhi Leonard is a damned good defender". And then it tells you a bunch of things that are just patently false - like "Al-Farouq Aminou is a better defender than LeBron".
The problem with them is, you don't need them to tell you things that EVERYBODY already knows. And you don't need them to tell you things that are patently false. So, bottom line, you don't need them at all. Just a suggestion, but you should consider not bothering to look at them.
Not surprised. He's been incredible this season.
RPM is supposed to be system-neutral. So it's not fair to say Anderson is a product of the system. If you can't see how effective Anderson is on defense, I don't know what to tell you. He's been great on that end, pretty much doing what Green had done the last couple years. Don't mistake Pop benching Kyle after a lapse as evidence that he hasn't been a fine defender generally.
On one hand, I agree with you. RPM doesn't have the same protections that plus-minus has. It's a model that was created by people to make data match their expectations. So on that one hand, if it doesn't match those expectations, it fails. That's a major reason why DRtg is considered to be an archaic individual stat.
On the other hand, though, you ARE what your numbers say you are. You're a good defender if you have a strong defensive impact on the game. If you don't, you're not. If Aminu had a bigger defensive impact than Lebron, controlling for teams, then he was the better defender, regardless of what seems obvious to you. You are what you do, and if Lebron or George hasn't done as much as Anderson this year (again, controlling for team), then he doesn't deserve to be rated above Anderson. Simple as that.
What a ty stat. No way it is reliable if GOAT Kobe is 77/77
I was the first to question his ability to play NBA-level D given lack of speed and performance last year, but he's proven me and many others wrong this year.
If KA can become a reliable spot-up shooter from 3pt (he shot 48% on 60 attempts his senior year of college ... 35.4% last year in Austin), he'll be a regular rotation piece once Manu retires. Only concern is ability to guard 2s, though that's the weakest position in the league, if sharing court with Kawhi. That's a long-term problem though - he's been tremendous value for the 30th pick. I'm sure OKC wishes they had a mulligan on that Huestis pick.
I think the key to looking at stats is to look at a variety of them and to recognize them for what they are, translations of a player's performance on the floor and not literal & exact measurements... in other words, even though the numbers are objective, the configurations & analysis of the numbers are still subjective. But I think there are definitely still good uses for stats-- you just have to know where to look. For example, I think it's better to look at block to foul ratio than it is to simply look at blocks per 48 minutes. One stat show # of blocks, but the other shows how often a block attempt is successful as opposed to harmful to the team. The key for me is to look at every available stat and balance the entire package along with the Eye Test, not being overly persuaded by any single stat.
Last edited by Mr Bones; 12-08-2015 at 12:19 PM.
Yes, "supposed" to be, but given the situation of needing a stop in a given defensive possession, I think most coaches & scouts would say you wouldn't rather have Anderson in over LeBron or Tony Allen... again, for me analyzing a player is a combo of eye test and stats, but both are fallible...
Last edited by Mr Bones; 12-08-2015 at 12:43 PM.
I wasn't bashing Anderson, or even thinking about him. I've consistently said that I think Anderson is going to be a solid contributor - not a star, but NBA-worthy to be sure.
I know very well what RPM and RAPM are supposed to be. They aren't what they are supposed to be. It doesn't work.
I don't disagree one bit. But look at the le and intended purpose (OP) of this thread.
I'll say it again - RPM and RAPM both show either things that are stunningly obvious, or things that are totally misleading. Anderson is a good defender - for the caliber of player he is, and at his current stage of development. Turn that into a comparison of him to a proven veteran NBA defender, and you're just being silly. (In general - not you personally.)
That's not the point of the stat. It's not a ranking system; it's a scoring system. The Eagles beating the Pats doesn't show that points is a flawed metric. Philly outperformed NE over the course of a game, and NE is still a better team. In that way, Lebron is a better defender in a vacuum and still hasn't outperformed Anderson in that regard.
Again, RPM is wrong for saying Anderson has played better defense than Lebron has this season. I really don't get why you would suggest it has to say Kyle should have a higher 2K rating defensively that James does. It's completely separable.
You've been around a long time, and posted a lot of good stuff. Did you really just say that? Tell me you didn't mean what it looks like that means. If for no other reason that LeBron's size, strength, and quickness.
I like Anderson, I really do. But that?
Right, but my point is stats are one tool to use in figuring out players and teams. The problem with them is usually the way they are used, or the balance given to a narrow rather than wide array of them. I'm not critisizing Anderson, but I don't think he's anywhere near the second best defensive SF in the NBA. Kawhi, on the other hand is arguably the best defensive SF in the league. The stat plus the eye test plus an understanding of their minutes (Kawhi starts and defends the opposing team's best player often, whereas Kyle comes off the bench, plays limited minutes, and is used by Pop in attractive match ups) tells me where the Defensive rating stat is closer to translating the defensive value of the player...
Okay, look. I'm trying not to just be argumentative, and still say something. Help me out here.
What's the purpose of computing a statistic, and assigning a number, unless you are going to compare one player's number to another player's number?
If, when you compare two players' numbers, they don't tell you anything meaningful - why go to the trouble of computing or looking at that stat?
I have looked at the results of RPM and RAPM in depth, for years. And it's always the same thing. The guys who everyone knows are really good, show up as really good. I didn't need RAPM to tell me that. If you're trying to use it to help quantify just how good that player is, you have to compare his stat to some other player... right? So when the stat shows that another player is basically as good or better, and you know for 100% sure he isn't? What did that stat tell you?
That's my one and only point. RPM and RAPM are every bit as worthless as looking at regular Plus Minus. The reason RAPM was devised was to try and help teams find diamonds in the rough. To find a clever way of identifying a guy who is better than he gets credit for. The problem with it is that it constantly identifies guys who aren't really as good as the stat suggests.
Specially if you consider that he is a 2nd year player with little experience coming into the season.
And yes, he does benefit from the system as much as everyone else in the Spurs does, but individually he adds and strenghens that system.
By the eye test he checks up as well. His size and length is really hard to deal with, and he has very good instincts on help defense, which is why he makes the system better, not worse.
Looks good to me. Offensively, he has taken a lot of tough shots, so not surprised he hasn't looked good in that area. He has talent however.
Is Kawhi a better shooter than Curry? No. Is he out-shooting Curry from three this season? Yes.
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