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I thinky we win long time
They're a of a team, but tonight proved what I've been saying all along: they're definitely human on that end, and as Sean has pointed out many times, analytics are wayyyy overrated in basketball. Their D-Rating might be top 10, but they really don't pass the eye test. Tonight proved why analytics don't tell you the entire story about their defense. They get huge leads because the offense is just ridiculous, while the other team usually falls behind quickly leading to bad shots and turnovers as they hopelessly try to get back into ball games. This jacks up the Warriors' D-Rating big time and allows them to sort of take off some defensive possessions by bailing them out with bad offense. This also further ignites the Warriors' offense and transition game. Once the Pacers decided to play 12 minutes of disciplined ball, the Warriors' defense showed their true colors but their offense was still just good enough to keep them from blowing it barely. Still, Warriors gave up a whopping 123 points in regulation which would have Popovich pulling his very grey hairs out.
Bottom line is, it takes EXTREME discipline to beat the Warriors, on both ends, but they can be beaten. You have to stick to your gameplan and stay physical or else they will discourage you and you'll quickly find yourself down double digits. There is a very minimal margin for error for stupidity and unforced errors, bad shot selection and blown assignments -- but they can be beaten. You have to make guys like Iggy and Green volume shooters and hound Curry all game. You have to fight over every screen, no cheating under or it's 3 points every time. With Kawhi and Green on the perimeter and Timmy and Aldridge on the inside, it's possible -- it's obviously not going to be easy by any means -- but it is possible.
GSG
I thinky we win long time
I believe
Curry is a defender, and Draymond Bass got cooked by Thad Youngtbh tbh
GS won, you moron. Sean also doesn't disallow analytics, he hates raw +/-. BIG ing difference.
He doesn't "disallow" them, but he has acknowledged that they are overrated (as recently as last night's game). Also, 10 years ago the Lenovo Stat (+/-) used to be considered "advanced analytics" before it became mainstream.
Another thing, their bench is pretty putrid compared to ours. They're a legit 8 deep, but they suffer an enormous dropoff when Curry and Thompson go to the bench.
If you were as smart as you say you are, you would understand that the ONLY real way to compare one team's defense to anothers IS Drtg, since it is pace neutral. PPG is not valid as a comparison, since you could simply slow the pace. You could have a brutally efficient offense, and just burn the shot clock every time to cover your average defense.
That we can agree on.
True yet they're still blowing teams out without Barnes and have even rested Bogut while still winning.
Also, eight deep is enough in the playoffs, especially when you have Curry on your team.
That's last 5 years Grizzlies ball, tbh
Spurs do take about an average amount of time off the clock on offense and we do shoot quick shots if they're open and the situation calls for them. Probably more than we should honestly.
DRtg is overrated because even though it takes into account pace it doesn't take into account that the majority of teams aren't disciplined enough to not quit their offensive scheme and just jack up any old shot or turn the ball over when they're losing by 20. Which, by the naked eye, I have seen time and again teams doing that consistently against the Warriors. A smart offense would realize you don't win by jacking up 3s against an opportunistic defense of 5 quick guys 6'7" and under. You win by running screens and motion plays to get into the paint, and if the double comes you kick it out and then, only then, shoot a wide open three. Jacking is losing basketball.
Wasn't Brandon Rush a lottery pick like 7 years ago? He was a very good player on a couple teams early on before injuries derailed his career. But now he's back, and he should get more minutes going forward as the Warriors look to reduce the minutes of their star wings.
Also, Bogut is losing a lot of minutes to Ezeli. They're going to have to determine soon whether they want to keep Bogut or Ezeli because Ezeli is going to get paid.
Rush was a lottery pick and he has been giving them some solid minutes. Curry has been talking him up as a good pickup lately and good locker room guy.
Since most teams still play that way on O (undisciplined), DRtg is still the best comparison. Great defenses can also FORCE teams out of their offense. It's a function of knowing when to go over, under, or switch screens, and GS is elite at it.
Eh, I think of it as being more like the Patriots whenever they are at their best. They go up so big early that opponents are forced to pass so they can just commit to rushing 4 guys, ignoring the run, and dropping everyone else in tight coverage avoiding the big play. Teams will then make dumb mistakes like throwing interceptions trying to hit the home run, and the Pats will come up with those plays on defense even though they've never really been an *elite* defense in the Brady/Belichick dynasty era.
The basketball equivalent is teams trying to make as many 3's as they can to try to get back in the game, and that just doesn't fly against the Warriors because the Warriors will grab the long rebound and run fastbreaks for easy layups and high percentage quick 3's of their own on the other end.
so much disrespect ...
DRtg might still be the best comparison, it's not a perfect way to assess a defense. In the last 10 games opponents have scored a ton against GSW, and the Warriors can hardly be accused of slowing down the pace of the game.
Most discussion here is related to playoffs performance (who gives a about the Warriors D against bottom of the barrel teams?), and that's not a time when teams tend to be undisciplined on O.
The Pacers scored 123 points; Toronto 109; Jazz 103; Kings 101 (!); Suns 116; Nuggets 105. Some of these games were close calls. My take is that the Warriors O is so incredibly potent that they slack on D quite a bit, and that might come back to bite them in the ass at the end of the season, as it's a lot easier to survive having an undisciplined O than an undisciplined D...
Who need defense when you can score 130+ every night ?
You keep saying this, but it's still not true. Pace in basketball is like time of possession in football. It's not just controlled by one side of the ball. The defense can force three-and-outs or neutralize the run game in order to give their offense more time. Or they can be so bad that the offense scores in a couple of plays. Either way, it's not really just up to the offense to determine how long they take.
A good defense can totally force an offense to burn more time than they'd like to. If you limit transition, deter penetration and deny passes, you can totally make an offense use 15-20 seconds of the shot clock just trying to find some action that works. And that limits the pace almost as effectively as pounding the air out of ball on offense does.
Pace is something that both teams and both sides of the ball fight to control. If the Spurs D forces GS' O to use 15-20 seconds each possession, they'll win. Thinking that neutralizing pace makes DRtg instantly more representative is like thinking that neutralizing MPG makes per-36 numbers superior. You can only distill things so much before you start to distort meaning.
Dude is top 5 in steals per game.Curry is a defender, and Draymond Bass got cooked by Thad Young
As I've said before, the Warrior's defense is overrated.
Didn't read all that garbage. To beat the dubs you have to play them rough. Rough curry and klay up. Stick on them like fly on until they fold. A few dirty fouls may not be out of the question. Imo.
Being top 5 in steals doesn't mean you're a top defender. You may be good at certain facets of defense, but PGs typically get the most steals because they're playing the guy who handles the ball the most.
Similar to a guy who gets a ton of weak side blocks (Ibaka) not being a tremendous post defender.
The Cavs had them down 2-1 with LeBron + scrubs as key Cavs offensive players were out.
They are definitely beatable.
Props to the Wubs tho.
I think the coaching and culture created has been and is fantastic.
Yup... playoff basketball going to be different. Spurs just need to review film of what Delevedova did to Curry during playoffs. Problem for Spurs is that we don't have the dirty player to guard Curry.
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