Mosque of Cady Lalanne

[Chinook]

Spurs can't sign an undrafted player like they did Marjanovic. It will cost them veteran minimum salary.

The only option is to sign the cheaper drafted second round players.

I did the calculations for you already. If you want to know what's wrong with yours, just look to see what's different from mine. That sounds a arrogant, I know. But there's no point in explaining the general concept again.

[Mel_13]

Spurs can't sign an undrafted player like they did Marjanovic.

Yes, they can.

[Mel_13]

wrong in what way?

I'm not doing your homework for you, I already provided a link to the textbook:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

(Plus, Chinook already ran the numbers for you. Just copy from him and you'll be fine.)

[ceperez]

No, just the $794k guaranteed.

EDIT: Actually, let me run the numbers:

If the Spurs keep Bonner, they pay $947k in salary and the same in taxes with the 1.5 multiplier ($1.421 Million) . That's $2.368 Million total.

If they release Bonner and sign Lalanne on 01/10, they pay $1.107 Million in salary (Bonner's $794k in guaranteed money and Lalanne's $313k in prorated salary) and $2.039 Million in taxes (Bonner's guarantee and Lalanne's prorated tax as he doesn't count as a rookie for tax purposes time the 1.5 multiplier). So that's a total of $3.146 Million to do the switch. We're talking about $778k more than it would be to just keep Matt around.

What appears to be in error here is that Bonner's tax when he's waived should be pro-rated.

Furthermore, Lalanne tax bill is not the veteran minimum, but rather his salary.

[Chinook]

What appears to be in error here is that Bonner's tax when he's waived should be pro-rated.

Again, if you see something different, it's because you're wrong.

[ceperez]

Again, if you see something different, it's because you're wrong.

I don't think you folks are pro-rating the tax bill for a waived player.

[Kawhitstorm]

Lalanne hasn't really shown the defense he needs to to stick in the league, even if his stroke is legit. Five to seven years ago, it might have been enough for Cady to be a guy over 6-8 who could space the floor. But you have to do at least two things at a very high level in order to make it in the NBA. If Cady can be a knock-down shooter who can rebound and score at anything above a below-average level, the offense will probably be find. But he doesn't have the quickest feet or the biggest body, so his NBA defensive position is ambiguous.

If Cady has LJC's defensive ability, we're talking about an awesome, awesome prospect. As it is, it would be a miracle if he even has a NBA career resembling that of Malcolm Thomas.

Cady is similar to a young poorman's Channing Frye before he went to Phoenix & became a true stretch 4/5. Andrew Nicholson is also another player that comes to mind.

[Chinook]

I don't think you folks are pro-rating the tax bill for a waived player.

Again, if you think there's an assumption I didn't make that you're making, it's because you're making a bad assumption.

[Chinook]

Cady is similar to a young poorman's Channing Frye before he went to Phoenix & became a true stretch 4/5. Andrew Nicholson is also another player that comes to mind.

Frye's a lot bigger and a better shooter. They're not really very similar.

[ceperez]

Cady is similar to a young poorman's Channing Frye before he went to Phoenix & became a true stretch 4/5. Andrew Nicholson is also another player that comes to mind.

I remember Channing Frye destroying the Spurs, eventually eliminating them from contention. Frye is bigger though than Caddy.

[GSH]

I don't think you folks are pro-rating the tax bill for a waived player.

wrong in what way?

Wrong it the way that you aren't using the same formula the NBA uses, which is the only way that matters.

Wrong in the way that you took a simple mistake, and turned it into something that makes you look like an argumentative asshole, the more you push it.

When you run into someone who obviously knows more about a subject than you do, listen and try to learn more from them. No shame in that.


Edit: BTW - a portion of Bonner's salary is guaranteed. Got that? GUARANTEED. That means the Spurs pay it, even if they waive him. It also means that amount counts toward the cap and tax, even if he is waived. REGARDLESS of when he is waived. Because it's guaranteed. You don't prorate something that's guaranteed. Because it's guaranteed.

Get it?

[GSH]

Ceperez is typing....

[ceperez]

Wrong it the way that you aren't using the same formula the NBA uses, which is the only way that matters.

Wrong in the way that you took a simple mistake, and turned it into something that makes you look like an argumentative asshole, the more you push it.

When you run into someone who obviously knows more about a subject than you do, listen and try to learn more from them. No shame in that.


Edit: BTW - a portion of Bonner's salary is guaranteed. Got that? GUARANTEED. That means the Spurs pay it, even if they waive him. It also means that amount counts toward the cap and tax, even if he is waived. REGARDLESS of when he is waived. Because it's guaranteed. You don't prorate something that's guaranteed. Because it's guaranteed.

Get it?

750k is guaranteed. 957k is what Spurs have to pay if he makes it past January. The remainder is paid by the league. The question is the luxury tax bill calculation. If Spurs only pay 750k, that's half the 1.5m they should pay, so the tax bill is 1/2 of what others are calculating.

It is only logical that you save money if you waive a player that is unguaranteed for the full season. What other folks are saying is that the cost for Bonner is the same even if he gets waived before January. I'm just saying they got their numbers wrong.

[ceperez]

No, just the $794k guaranteed.

EDIT: Actually, let me run the numbers:

If the Spurs keep Bonner, they pay $947k in salary and the same in taxes with the 1.5 multiplier ($1.421 Million) . That's $2.368 Million total.

If they release Bonner and sign Lalanne on 01/10, they pay $1.107 Million in salary (Bonner's $794k in guaranteed money and Lalanne's $313k in prorated salary) and $2.039 Million in taxes (Bonner's guarantee and Lalanne's prorated tax as he doesn't count as a rookie for tax purposes time the 1.5 multiplier). So that's a total of $3.146 Million to do the switch. We're talking about $778k more than it would be to just keep Matt around.

Bonner is kept: $947k + 1.5 * (1.5m) = $947k + $2.2m =~ $3.1m
Bonner is waived: $750k + 1.5 * (750k) =~ 1.87m
Lalanne is signed: $313k + 1.5 * (313k) =~ .78m
-------------
2.65m
Difference of 0.45m in favor of waiving Bonner. Not sure where $778k going the other way.

Finally, not unusual that Spurs bring in players in the middle of the season. When did Aaron Baynes come in?

[Kawhitstorm]

Frye's a lot bigger and a better shooter. They're not really very similar.

I remember Channing Frye destroying the Spurs, eventually eliminating them from contention. Frye is bigger though than Caddy.

Frye when he came into the league was 6' 9.5"/244 w/a 7' 2.5" wingspan & Lalanne is listed as 6' 8.25"/240 w/ a 7' 5" wingspan; they both have the same standing reach (9' 2.5"). I don't see how Frye was MUCH BIGGER. If I didn't make it clear, I'm not comparing Frye in a Phoenix jersey to Lalanne, the comparison is between the two at the same point of their careers (rookie season). Polish up Lalanne & he could be a poorman's version pre-Suns Frye.

If we are talking about a player that CURRENTLY resembles Lalanne then it's Andrew Nicholson who is the same height/weight but has a smaller wingspan & standing reach. Nicholson surprisingly has the same no step vertical as Cady (28.5)

[ceperez]

Frye when he came into the league was 6' 9.5"/244 w/a 7' 2.5" wingspan & Lalanne is listed as 6' 8.25"/240 w/ a 7' 5" wingspan; they both have the same standing reach (9' 2.5"). I don't see how Frye was MUCH BIGGER. If I didn't make it clear, I'm not comparing Frye in a Phoenix jersey to Lalanne, the comparison is between the two at the same point of their careers (rookie season). Polish up Lalanne & he could be a poorman's version pre-Suns Frye.

If we are talking about a player that CURRENTLY resembles Lalanne then it's Andrew Nicholson who is the same height/weight but has a smaller wingspan & standing reach. Nicholson surprisingly has the same no step vertical as Cady (28.5)

I imagined Frye to be much bigger, he's also listed a 6'11". However you are right, Frye isn't that much bigger than Lalanne. Lalanne of course has wider wingspan.

I agree, Andrew Nicholson has the same level of athleticism and size as Lalanne.

[Chinook]

Bonner is kept: $947k + 1.5 * (1.5m) = $947k + $2.2m =~ $3.1m
Bonner is waived: $750k + 1.5 * (750k) =~ 1.87m
Lalanne is signed: $313k + 1.5 * (313k) =~ .78m
-------------
2.65m
Difference of 0.45m in favor of waiving Bonner. Not sure where $778k going the other way.

Finally, not unusual that Spurs bring in players in the middle of the season. When did Aaron Baynes come in?

Again, if your math differs, it's because you're wrong.

Major hint: With one exception, the taxable amount is whatever the team has on it's cap that year. So Bonner's tax is $947k x 1.5 = # 1.421 Million. You don't tax the part the league is paying.

Second one, I'm going to have to disagree with Mel here. Bonner is guaranteed $794k to the best of my knowledge. I haven't found an alternative source that's said it was supposed to be $749k (mainly because even then that amount of money corresponds to AFTER 1/10, so the idea that the Spurs are guaranteeing him up until 1/10 is wrong). $75k is hardly worth haggling over, though.

Third, rookies count for the same amount of money as second-year vets for tax purposes (and only for tax purposes). So Lalanne would account for 94/169 (the remainder of the season) x the second-year vet min of $947, which is $527k. Then multiply that by the 1.5 tax, and you get $790k. You add that to his prorated rookie salary of $292k, and you get $1.080 Million.

So Bonner costs $947k x 2.5 to keep = $2.368 Million.

Waiving him any time before 1/25 costs $794k x 2.5 in dead money = $1.985 Million.

As discussed, signing Cady on 1/10 costs $1.080 Million.

So in total you get $1.985 Million + $1.080 Million - $2.368 Million

= $3.065 Million - $2.368 Million = $697k

So I guess I was off by about $80k (I got $313k for Cady's prorated min rather than the more appropriate $292k and there was some rounding error -- at me). But yes, the Spurs save money by keeping Bonner.

[ceperez]

Again, if your math differs, it's because you're wrong.

Major hint: With one exception, the taxable amount is whatever the team has on it's cap that year. So Bonner's tax is $947k x 1.5 = # 1.421 Million. You don't tax the part the league is paying.

Second one, I'm going to have to disagree with Mel here. Bonner is guaranteed $794k to the best of my knowledge. I haven't found an alternative source that's said it was supposed to be $749k (mainly because even then that amount of money corresponds to AFTER 1/10, so the idea that the Spurs are guaranteeing him up until 1/10 is wrong). $75k is hardly worth haggling over, though.

Third, rookies count for the same amount of money as second-year vets for tax purposes (and only for tax purposes). So Lalanne would account for 94/169 (the remainder of the season) x the second-year vet min of $947, which is $527k. Then multiply that by the 1.5 tax, and you get $790k. You add that to his prorated rookie salary of $292k, and you get $1.080 Million.

So Bonner costs $947k x 2.5 to keep = $2.368 Million.

Waiving him any time before 1/25 costs $794k x 2.5 in dead money = $1.985 Million.

As discussed, signing Cady on 1/10 costs $1.080 Million.

So in total you get $1.985 Million + $1.080 Million - $2.368 Million

= $3.065 Million - $2.368 Million = $697k

So I guess I was off by about $80k (I got $313k for Cady's prorated min rather than the more appropriate $292k and there was some rounding error -- at me). But yes, the Spurs save money by keeping Bonner.

Well, I am not certain about the two sections that I marked as bold. The second one really doesn't sound to be right. In fact you cheat a bit here by throwing in the second year plus presumable a second year luxury tax. Wow,you must be an accountant by trade!

[Mel_13]

Bonner defiled the mosque tonight.

[ceperez]

Bonner defiled the mosque tonight.

No better motivation than fear of losing your job.

[ChumpDumper]

No better motivation than fear of losing your job.

Looked utterly relaxed out there tbh.

[Chinook]

In fact you cheat a bit here by throwing in the second year plus presumable a second year luxury tax. Wow,you must be an accountant by trade!

Mel has linked you to the CBA FAQ time and again. If you had read it once, you'd know why I used the second-year min instead of the rookie min to calculate the tax for Lalanne (but despite your objection, I used the rookie min to calculate Cady's salary). If you're a legit poster, you will postpone your inquiry and read the link before commenting on this issue again. The fact that you keep arguing from a place of ignorance makes it unsatisfying to discourse with you.

[Mel_13]

[playbonner15]

Bonner defiled the mosque tonight.

[playbonner15]