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  1. #1
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/marka...anda-fernandez

    Click above for full text
    1. We need to view the problem of the Islamic State as a political problem with a media dimension, not the other way around. All too often we think that these are public relations or messaging issues. But they're related to the real world: there is a real war in Syria and Iraq, there's real violence, there are real people being killed. Mosul did fall to the Islamic State, it wasn't imaginary. So we need to realize that when we talk about messaging, it is intrinsically linked to a political reality. We cannot divorce propaganda from the political reality on the ground.
    2. It takes a network to fight a network. Despite some steps to ramp up the volume of our counter-propaganda efforts, we still lack the volume necessary to be able to compete in this space. Volume has value. And the Islamic State—either itself or with its networks—still has the advantage in numbers, and it’s managed to create an echo chamber that gives its messages a life of their own.
    3. There is a wealth of credible voices of people who have firsthand knowledge of ISIS violence that have not been fully tapped. In August 2014, for instance, the Islamic State killed almost 1,000 male members of the Sheitaat Tribe, a Sunni-Arab-Muslim Tribe in Syria. We know that there are Sheitaat Tribesmen now in refugee camps—they (along with Iraqis from Anbar province and Syrian refugees) have their own firsthand stories to tell. It would be a good investment for a Western or Middle Eastern government to hire some of those people and empower them to challenge extremists on social media. That's an easy and inexpensive step.
    4. On content, there is too much emphasis on the search for the magic bullet. What counter-propagandists really need is multifaceted content similar to the multifaceted content that the Islamic State produces. This could include sarcasm, fact-based approaches, ideological approaches, and others. Governments—especially the U.S. government—aren’t always the best-equipped to engage in ideological struggles; since there is an ideological dimension to the ISIS battle, governments should include the relevant actors in the design and implementation of its counter-propaganda strategy.

  2. #2
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    How about just countering ISIS effectively and killing the ever living out of them.

    From the glorious bas that called Obama a pussy on air
    http://nypost.com/2015/12/20/how-to-crush-isis/

    An American president with no military experience, little grasp of history and an outdated mental map of the Middle East.
    Obama today? Yes, but potentially a Republican next year.

    Ideology isn’t a strategy, and sound bites don’t win wars. The Islamic State caliphate (ISIS) and its rivals can be annihilated, but only if we have a clear objective, a realistic assessment of the means needed to achieve it and — above all — a president with the vision, courage and for ude to lead.
    ADVERTISING





    What will it take? Here are the requirements for a serious military effort (only a military approach will stop ISIS):
    Congress must declare war.
    Congress needs to face up to its cons utional responsibilities with a declaration of war against “the Islamic State, al Qaeda, their affiliates and imitators and their supporters, wherever they are found.” War is no longer restricted to state-on-state violence, nor should its conduct depend on a president’s whimsy.
    Define the mission.
    The goal should be the uncompromising destruction of violent jihadi organizations. It shouldn’t include the reconstruction of artificial borders imposed on the Middle East by long-dead Europeans. Don’t cling to doomed governments.
    Say less, do more and keep secrets.
    Don’t announce operations or troop deployments for domestic political advantage. In the jihadi World Series, our team has to show up unexpectedly. Crack down on Pentagon leaks.
    Stop pretending that war can be waged gently.
    Kill the enemy. Accept that there will be civilian casualties and collateral damage. Get the lawyers out of the targeting process and off the battlefield. Rules of engagement should empower our troops, not shield our enemies.
    The morbid “humanitarianism” of the left ignores the proven principle that winning fast spares lives. As a result of our reluctance to fight promptly, powerfully and ruthlessly, there are now 300,000 dead in Syria, untold numbers dead in Iraq and rising body counts elsewhere, with millions of refugees. And because our enemies know that we don’t strike populated areas, they base themselves in crowded neighborhoods, guaranteeing more civilian deaths.

    Concentrate on effects, not numbers.

    Our obsession with troop numbers is political, not practical. In a global war against Islamist fanatics, the troop strength required for missions will fluctuate. A vital operation in one country might require a few dozen special operators for one night, while an operation in another might demand 30,000 troops for three months. Anyway, the resolve with which force is applied is far more important than numbers.

    Accomplish the mission and leave.

    No nation-building. No occupations-by-another-name. Go in, do the job, get out. If you have to go back and do the job again later on, that’s still cheaper in blood and treasure than hanging around. What are called for are old-fashioned punitive expeditions, not nation-building where there are no nations. Surprise them; slaughter them; leave.
    Conventional forces must think unconventionally.
    Our forces must become more agile and operate under more-austere conditions. More bullets, fewer bases, no Baskin-Robbins. Mobility, speed and firepower are crucial. Think cavalry, not constabulary; saddle bags, not shipping containers.
    Hyperexpensive weapons can be the enemy within.

    At present, we’ll use a million-dollar precision-guided munition to take out two low-level terrorists at a checkpoint. As a result, we’ve drained our arsenal. While this is good news for the defense industry, it exposes the fallacy of a weapons-procurement process that assumes a short, decisive war against a compliant enemy.

    Don’t make fun of the Russians for using cheap bombs on easy targets. We should be doing it, too. And inexpensive, old-fashioned napalm would be poetic justice for apocalyptic jihadis who burn captives to death.
    Choose allies for their utility, not from habit.
    In the broken territories formerly known as Syria and Iraq, we need to support those whose interests converge with ours, while cutting our losses where our largesse only helps other enemies. That means tacitly backing a Kurdish state; accepting a new Sunni-Arab (but non-Islamist-extremist) state straddling the old border; and cutting all support for the Iranian-dominated Baghdad government President Obama’s incompetence facilitated.
    From Libya to Afghanistan and Pakistan, we must not let ill-drawn lines on old maps tyrannize our foreign policy.
    Presidential support of our military.
    This is the most important factor of all. Our troops and their leaders need to know that their commander-in-chief won’t betray them based on spurious claims from the media or anti-war activist groups; that he won’t lose his courage and resolve when things get ugly; and that he’ll be our military’s advocate, not its adversary.
    Of course, there are myriad practical details to be addressed, from basing rights and overflight issues to the conflicting goals of third parties, such as Iran or Russia. Even in lean operations, logistics rule. And our military must relearn how to fight and win, escaping the thrall of political correctness.
    We can defeat ISIS, but first we have to stop defeating ourselves.
    Ralph Peters is a retired US Army officer and the author, most recently, of “Valley of the Shadow.”

  3. #3
    Believe.
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    I think 5 should be all the people that think there should provide infantry support to take advantage of the US policy of allowing citizens to become foreign fighters if not against US interests, embed themselves with the Kurds or FSA like other brave americans.

  4. #4
    Veteran velik_m's Avatar
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    What we need is for mainstream media to stop spreading ISIS message, but they just can't help themselves.

    Alternatively we could teach people to not believe everything they see on TV or read on internet and view every PR with cynicism.

  5. #5
    Believe. mingus's Avatar
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    How about just countering ISIS effectively and killing the ever living out of them.

    From the glorious bas that called Obama a pussy on air
    http://nypost.com/2015/12/20/how-to-crush-isis/

    An American president with no military experience, little grasp of history and an outdated mental map of the Middle East.
    Obama today? Yes, but potentially a Republican next year.

    Ideology isn’t a strategy, and sound bites don’t win wars. The Islamic State caliphate (ISIS) and its rivals can be annihilated, but only if we have a clear objective, a realistic assessment of the means needed to achieve it and — above all — a president with the vision, courage and for ude to lead.
    ADVERTISING





    What will it take? Here are the requirements for a serious military effort (only a military approach will stop ISIS):
    Congress must declare war.
    Congress needs to face up to its cons utional responsibilities with a declaration of war against “the Islamic State, al Qaeda, their affiliates and imitators and their supporters, wherever they are found.” War is no longer restricted to state-on-state violence, nor should its conduct depend on a president’s whimsy.
    Define the mission.
    The goal should be the uncompromising destruction of violent jihadi organizations. It shouldn’t include the reconstruction of artificial borders imposed on the Middle East by long-dead Europeans. Don’t cling to doomed governments.
    Say less, do more and keep secrets.
    Don’t announce operations or troop deployments for domestic political advantage. In the jihadi World Series, our team has to show up unexpectedly. Crack down on Pentagon leaks.
    Stop pretending that war can be waged gently.
    Kill the enemy. Accept that there will be civilian casualties and collateral damage. Get the lawyers out of the targeting process and off the battlefield. Rules of engagement should empower our troops, not shield our enemies.
    The morbid “humanitarianism” of the left ignores the proven principle that winning fast spares lives. As a result of our reluctance to fight promptly, powerfully and ruthlessly, there are now 300,000 dead in Syria, untold numbers dead in Iraq and rising body counts elsewhere, with millions of refugees. And because our enemies know that we don’t strike populated areas, they base themselves in crowded neighborhoods, guaranteeing more civilian deaths.

    Concentrate on effects, not numbers.

    Our obsession with troop numbers is political, not practical. In a global war against Islamist fanatics, the troop strength required for missions will fluctuate. A vital operation in one country might require a few dozen special operators for one night, while an operation in another might demand 30,000 troops for three months. Anyway, the resolve with which force is applied is far more important than numbers.

    Accomplish the mission and leave.

    No nation-building. No occupations-by-another-name. Go in, do the job, get out. If you have to go back and do the job again later on, that’s still cheaper in blood and treasure than hanging around. What are called for are old-fashioned punitive expeditions, not nation-building where there are no nations. Surprise them; slaughter them; leave.
    Conventional forces must think unconventionally.
    Our forces must become more agile and operate under more-austere conditions. More bullets, fewer bases, no Baskin-Robbins. Mobility, speed and firepower are crucial. Think cavalry, not constabulary; saddle bags, not shipping containers.
    Hyperexpensive weapons can be the enemy within.

    At present, we’ll use a million-dollar precision-guided munition to take out two low-level terrorists at a checkpoint. As a result, we’ve drained our arsenal. While this is good news for the defense industry, it exposes the fallacy of a weapons-procurement process that assumes a short, decisive war against a compliant enemy.

    Don’t make fun of the Russians for using cheap bombs on easy targets. We should be doing it, too. And inexpensive, old-fashioned napalm would be poetic justice for apocalyptic jihadis who burn captives to death.
    Choose allies for their utility, not from habit.
    In the broken territories formerly known as Syria and Iraq, we need to support those whose interests converge with ours, while cutting our losses where our largesse only helps other enemies. That means tacitly backing a Kurdish state; accepting a new Sunni-Arab (but non-Islamist-extremist) state straddling the old border; and cutting all support for the Iranian-dominated Baghdad government President Obama’s incompetence facilitated.
    From Libya to Afghanistan and Pakistan, we must not let ill-drawn lines on old maps tyrannize our foreign policy.
    Presidential support of our military.
    This is the most important factor of all. Our troops and their leaders need to know that their commander-in-chief won’t betray them based on spurious claims from the media or anti-war activist groups; that he won’t lose his courage and resolve when things get ugly; and that he’ll be our military’s advocate, not its adversary.
    Of course, there are myriad practical details to be addressed, from basing rights and overflight issues to the conflicting goals of third parties, such as Iran or Russia. Even in lean operations, logistics rule. And our military must relearn how to fight and win, escaping the thrall of political correctness.
    We can defeat ISIS, but first we have to stop defeating ourselves.
    Ralph Peters is a retired US Army officer and the author, most recently, of “Valley of the Shadow.”


    In the last paragraph he mentions a "myraid of practical details", but he should define what exactly is his theoretical basis for conducting ourselves this way and tell us why he thinks it is right by weighing it up against the facts & counter arguments. Then after that we can talk logistics, assuming I think he makes a good case of it. Until he does that I could care less about whst his prescriptions are.

  6. #6
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    why not just ethnic cleanse that whole region including the arab allies?

  7. #7
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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  8. #8
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    Why is it that none of the top people in the muslim communities/mosques don't come out against this violence? Is it that the radicalism is being taught in the mosques? I can't believe that the relatives and friends of radicalized muslims don't know what's going on. Or is it that they are afraid of their own lives?

  9. #9
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Why is it that none of the top people in the muslim communities/mosques don't come out against this violence?
    clearly false. might want to check your Google on that.

    Muslims worldwide have widely denounced ISIS. check the local response in San Bernardino, you'll see there's not much to the claim that Muslims don't speak out against violence and terror.

  10. #10
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    On content, there is too much emphasis on the search for the magic bullet. What counter-propagandists really need is multifaceted content similar to the multifaceted content that the Islamic State produces. This could include sarcasm, fact-based approaches, ideological approaches, and others. Governments—especially the U.S. government—aren’t always the best-equipped to engage in ideological struggles; since there is an ideological dimension to the ISIS battle, governments should include the relevant actors in the design and implementation of its counter-propaganda strategy.
    IDK if that's going to change anyone. For years I've used plenty of sarcasm on this forum and Boutons is still crazy as .

  11. #11
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    clearly false. might want to check your Google on that.

    Muslims worldwide have widely denounced ISIS. check the local response in San Bernardino, you'll see there's not much to the claim that Muslims don't speak out against violence and terror.
    I don't see it reported in msm e.g. google news had nothing on it

  12. #12
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    you're not looking very hard.

    the stories aren't hard to find, if you're actually curious to find out what Muslims say about ISIS and terror attacks.

  13. #13
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    Make Turkey stop supporting them.

  14. #14
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    you're not looking very hard.

    the stories aren't hard to find, if you're actually curious to find out what Muslims say about ISIS and terror attacks.
    I'm not looking for them now. My point is that if they were main stream/commonplace, I would have seen them on Google news, CNN, etc. a couple weeks back when the waves were flooded with news about the terror attacks. All I saw was the CAIR? group with the shooter's brother-in-law interview.

  15. #15
    Real Warrior Warlord23's Avatar
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    I'm not looking for them now. My point is that if they were main stream/commonplace, I would have seen them on Google news, CNN, etc. a couple weeks back when the waves were flooded with news about the terror attacks. All I saw was the CAIR? group with the shooter's brother-in-law interview.
    CNN and Fox are all about clickbait headlines. It's much easier to cover controversial and incendiary stuff than stories which are empathetic but dull. But it's common sense that a large proportion of Muslims will hate ISIS, given that ISIS kills tens of thousands of Muslims.

    Our lazy media and political commentators simplify this issue into a good-vs-evil debate because the population is stupid. How many Americans understand the Shia-Sunni divide? Remember Rubio telling Hannity that Obama doesn't want to hit ISIS hard because it would upset Iran? In any other western country he'd be a laughing stock, here he is supposed to be the smart guy in the GOP field. It's because of people like you who swallow the simple storylines that idiotic solutions (ban Muslims, carpet bomb the Middle East, take the oil etc) are given more coverage than the nuances of a complex issue.

  16. #16
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Make Turkey stop supporting them.
    Not so easy. Turkey has interests in the region, and they're technically our ally.

  17. #17
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I'm not looking for them now. My point is that if they were main stream/commonplace, I would have seen them on Google news, CNN, etc. a couple weeks back when the waves were flooded with news about the terror attacks. All I saw was the CAIR? group with the shooter's brother-in-law interview.
    you trust TV to be authoritative? how quaint.

  18. #18
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    How about just countering ISIS effectively and killing the ever living out of them.

    From the glorious bas that called Obama a pussy on air
    http://nypost.com/2015/12/20/how-to-crush-isis/

    An American president with no military experience, little grasp of history and an outdated mental map of the Middle East.
    Obama today? Yes, but potentially a Republican next year.

    Ideology isn’t a strategy, and sound bites don’t win wars. The Islamic State caliphate (ISIS) and its rivals can be annihilated, but only if we have a clear objective, a realistic assessment of the means needed to achieve it and — above all — a president with the vision, courage and for ude to lead.
    ADVERTISING





    What will it take? Here are the requirements for a serious military effort (only a military approach will stop ISIS):
    Congress must declare war.
    Congress needs to face up to its cons utional responsibilities with a declaration of war against “the Islamic State, al Qaeda, their affiliates and imitators and their supporters, wherever they are found.” War is no longer restricted to state-on-state violence, nor should its conduct depend on a president’s whimsy.
    Define the mission.
    The goal should be the uncompromising destruction of violent jihadi organizations. It shouldn’t include the reconstruction of artificial borders imposed on the Middle East by long-dead Europeans. Don’t cling to doomed governments.
    Say less, do more and keep secrets.
    Don’t announce operations or troop deployments for domestic political advantage. In the jihadi World Series, our team has to show up unexpectedly. Crack down on Pentagon leaks.
    Stop pretending that war can be waged gently.
    Kill the enemy. Accept that there will be civilian casualties and collateral damage. Get the lawyers out of the targeting process and off the battlefield. Rules of engagement should empower our troops, not shield our enemies.
    The morbid “humanitarianism” of the left ignores the proven principle that winning fast spares lives. As a result of our reluctance to fight promptly, powerfully and ruthlessly, there are now 300,000 dead in Syria, untold numbers dead in Iraq and rising body counts elsewhere, with millions of refugees. And because our enemies know that we don’t strike populated areas, they base themselves in crowded neighborhoods, guaranteeing more civilian deaths.

    Concentrate on effects, not numbers.

    Our obsession with troop numbers is political, not practical. In a global war against Islamist fanatics, the troop strength required for missions will fluctuate. A vital operation in one country might require a few dozen special operators for one night, while an operation in another might demand 30,000 troops for three months. Anyway, the resolve with which force is applied is far more important than numbers.

    Accomplish the mission and leave.

    No nation-building. No occupations-by-another-name. Go in, do the job, get out. If you have to go back and do the job again later on, that’s still cheaper in blood and treasure than hanging around. What are called for are old-fashioned punitive expeditions, not nation-building where there are no nations. Surprise them; slaughter them; leave.
    Conventional forces must think unconventionally.
    Our forces must become more agile and operate under more-austere conditions. More bullets, fewer bases, no Baskin-Robbins. Mobility, speed and firepower are crucial. Think cavalry, not constabulary; saddle bags, not shipping containers.
    Hyperexpensive weapons can be the enemy within.

    At present, we’ll use a million-dollar precision-guided munition to take out two low-level terrorists at a checkpoint. As a result, we’ve drained our arsenal. While this is good news for the defense industry, it exposes the fallacy of a weapons-procurement process that assumes a short, decisive war against a compliant enemy.

    Don’t make fun of the Russians for using cheap bombs on easy targets. We should be doing it, too. And inexpensive, old-fashioned napalm would be poetic justice for apocalyptic jihadis who burn captives to death.
    Choose allies for their utility, not from habit.
    In the broken territories formerly known as Syria and Iraq, we need to support those whose interests converge with ours, while cutting our losses where our largesse only helps other enemies. That means tacitly backing a Kurdish state; accepting a new Sunni-Arab (but non-Islamist-extremist) state straddling the old border; and cutting all support for the Iranian-dominated Baghdad government President Obama’s incompetence facilitated.
    From Libya to Afghanistan and Pakistan, we must not let ill-drawn lines on old maps tyrannize our foreign policy.
    Presidential support of our military.
    This is the most important factor of all. Our troops and their leaders need to know that their commander-in-chief won’t betray them based on spurious claims from the media or anti-war activist groups; that he won’t lose his courage and resolve when things get ugly; and that he’ll be our military’s advocate, not its adversary.
    Of course, there are myriad practical details to be addressed, from basing rights and overflight issues to the conflicting goals of third parties, such as Iran or Russia. Even in lean operations, logistics rule. And our military must relearn how to fight and win, escaping the thrall of political correctness.
    We can defeat ISIS, but first we have to stop defeating ourselves.
    Ralph Peters is a retired US Army officer and the author, most recently, of “Valley of the Shadow.”
    I see a whole lot of fail. The guy is pretending that every problem involves a hammer.

    ISIS ideology depends on this kind of stupidity to keep itself relevant, and this kind of hammering simply plays into their hands.

    Sure you have to kill asshats, but ultimate victory will be to discredit the idea as much as the asshats carrying it out.

  19. #19
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    I see a whole lot of fail. The guy is pretending that every problem involves a hammer.

    ISIS ideology depends on this kind of stupidity to keep itself relevant, and this kind of hammering simply plays into their hands.

    Sure you have to kill asshats, but ultimate victory will be to discredit the idea as much as the asshats carrying it out.
    http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=f08_1424123423

    Tier 1 discrediting

  20. #20
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    CNN and Fox are all about clickbait headlines. It's much easier to cover controversial and incendiary stuff than stories which are empathetic but dull. But it's common sense that a large proportion of Muslims will hate ISIS, given that ISIS kills tens of thousands of Muslims.

    Our lazy media and political commentators simplify this issue into a good-vs-evil debate because the population is stupid. How many Americans understand the Shia-Sunni divide? Remember Rubio telling Hannity that Obama doesn't want to hit ISIS hard because it would upset Iran? In any other western country he'd be a laughing stock, here he is supposed to be the smart guy in the GOP field. It's because of people like you who swallow the simple storylines that idiotic solutions (ban Muslims, carpet bomb the Middle East, take the oil etc) are given more coverage than the nuances of a complex issue.
    bingo.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/21/op...isis.html?_r=0

    Interesting bit read on the physical paper this afternoon.

    ISTANBUL — THE recent massacres in Paris and San Bernardino, Calif., demonstrated, once again, the so-called Islamic State’s ability to win over disaffected Muslims. Using a mixture of textual literalism and self-righteous certainty, the extremist group is able to persuade young men and women from Pakistan to Belgium to pledge allegiance to it and commit violence in its name.

    This is why the Islamic State’s religious ideology needs to be taken seriously. While it’s wrong to claim that the group’s thinking represents mainstream Islam, as Islamophobes so often do, it’s also wrong to pretend that the Islamic State has “nothing to do with Islam,” as many Islamophobia-wary Muslims like to say. Indeed, jihadist leaders are steeped in Islamic thought and teachings, even if they use their knowledge to perverse and brutal ends.

    A good place to start understanding the Islamic State’s doctrine is by reading Dabiq, the digital English-language magazine that the group puts out every month. One of the most striking pieces I have seen in it was an 18-page article in March led “Irja’: The Most Dangerous Bid’ah,” or heresy.

    Unless you have some knowledge of medieval Islamic theology you probably have no idea what irja means. The word translates literally as “postponing.” It was a theological principle put forward by some Muslim scholars during the very first century of Islam. At the time, the Muslim world was going through a major civil war, as proto-Sunnis and proto-Shiites fought for power, and a third group called Khawarij (dissenters) were excommunicating and slaughtering both sides. In the face of this bloody chaos, the proponents of irja said that the burning question of who is a true Muslim should be “postponed” until the afterlife. Even a Muslim who abandoned all religious practice and committed many sins, they reasoned, could not be denounced as an “apostate.” Faith was a matter of the heart, something only God — not other human beings — could evaluate.

    The scholars who put this forward became known as “murjia,” the upholders of irja, or, simply, “postponers.” The theology that they outlined could have been the basis for a tolerant, noncoercive, pluralistic Islam — an Islamic liberalism. Unfortunately, they did not have enough influence on the Muslim world. The school of thought disappeared quickly, only to go down in Sunni orthodoxy’s memory as one of the early “heretical sects.” The murjia left a mark on the more lenient side of Sunni Islam, represented by Hanafi-Maturidism, most popular in the Balkans, Turkey and Central Asia, but today there is virtually no Muslim group that identifies itself as murjia. The word irja is seldom heard in discussions of Islamic theology.

    So why is the Islamic State so alarmed about this old “heresy”? The answer to this question can be found in the Dabiq article itself, where the authors accuse other Islamist rebel groups in Syria of irja. “These factions did not rule by the Shariah despite their control of ‘liberated’ territory,” the Islamic State writers note loathingly. In other words, they did not kill “apostates,” implement corporal punishment, or force women to cover themselves head to toe.

    The groups that the Islamic State accuses of irja — many of them conservative Islamists — would probably not readily accept the label. In their religious texts, too, irja probably appears as heresy. But we should recognize that by “postponing” the imposition of religion and the punishment of sinners, they are engaged in de facto irja. Not out of principle perhaps, but out of pragmatism.
    (read rest at link above)

  21. #21
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    How American Muslims plan to counter post-Paris backlash

    Muslim leaders said Monday that they aim to register more voters and engage with young American Muslims to counter the lure of ISIS.
    http://news.yahoo.com/american-musli...204551246.html

    First steps in waging the real war against ISIS.

    I would point out that communism wasn't defeated as an ideology because we killed all the communists. We won, when the idea was discredited as being dumb.

  22. #22
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Um, whut? Not clicking on a video at liveleak. Summary?

  23. #23
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    Um, whut? Not clicking on a video at liveleak. Summary?
    Allergic to liveleak??? It's not anything graphic if that is what you are worried about. It's effective anti-ISIS like you were discussing.

  24. #24
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    How American Muslims plan to counter post-Paris backlash

    Muslim leaders said Monday that they aim to register more voters and engage with young American Muslims to counter the lure of ISIS.
    http://news.yahoo.com/american-musli...204551246.html

    First steps in waging the real war against ISIS.

    I would point out that communism wasn't defeated as an ideology because we killed all the communists. We won, when the idea was discredited as being dumb.
    Why do you continue to post articles referencing CAIR and their thoughts on the matter? CAIR is spreading the exact ISIS propaganda you are opposed to.

  25. #25
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    RG you're a bright dude never thought you'd be duped by CAIR.

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