What type of career would Manu/Tony have had as the consensus #1 without Tim?

[Kawhitstorm]

You don't need all-stars, just a good assambled team. Heck, get the Golden Generation Argie team and Manu could have put on work in the NBA as a lead guy.

I said BOARDER-LINE all-stars (Deng/Noah/Boozer).

If you compare the 2010-11 Bulls roster to the Golden Generation:

-Scola>Boozer
-Nocioni=Deng
-Noah>Oberto
-Hermann>Taj
-Delfino>Brewer
-Pepe>Korver
-Prigoni> Bogans

So that team was loaded & 22 yr old Derick Rose was carrying a bunch of bums, tbh.

[ElNono]

You have a contemporary player in Wade who was Manu on steroids but he couldn't get past the 1st rd in the East.

???

Wade won a championship in 2006 with a completely done Shaq, Antoine Walker and Jason Kapono...

[ElNono]

Pepe Sanchez better than Korver?

And Prigioni didn't play in Athens, IIRC

[skulls138]

Manu on steroids? Thats an impossibility.

[Kawhitstorm]

You also have to remember that Pop held the reigns tight on both manu and Tony early on... I don't think it's crazy to think manu could have had 5-7 years at 35 min per game and stay relatively healthy. I do believe he would have at some point learned when to dial it down..

bottom line:

this is forum amazes me with how much manu is under rated. I suffered through the 80s and 90's waiting for that player that would do the things manu does. You can't explain it... I actually think bird is the best comparison other than the trash talking. Manu gives everyone on the team significantly more confidence and fears nothing.

Spree was was a great Player and fairly under rated, but bball iq, efficiency and intangibles plus wining pedigree it's not close IMHO

Bruh, Wade does everything Manu can do except make 3s consistently & he had a freakish athleticism to go along with it. You also had per-injury Penny who was the closest thing to Magic & Grant Hill who was the closest thing to Pippen.

If a player doesn't have an unstoppable postup game & rebound the ball very well then you can't compare him to Bird. Pistol Pete is the much closer to Manu than guys like Magic/Bird.

[Kawhitstorm]

Pepe Sanchez better than Korver?

And Prigioni didn't play in Athens, IIRC

Bruh, Kyle Korver in 2011 was Anthony Morrow status & Prigioni is part of the Golden Generation (it's just not Athens).

[Kawhitstorm]

???

Wade won a championship in 2006 with a completely done Shaq, Antoine Walker and Jason Kapono...

Bruh, I'm OBVIOUSLY talking about him carrying a team for an ENTIRE season (i.e 2008-09) not a freakin' series. Shaq played like an all-star in ECF against none other than Ben Wallace but people forget b/c Wade memorized everyone in the Finals.

[ElNono]

Bruh, Kyle Korver in 2011 was Anthony Morrow status & Prigioni is part of the Golden Generation (it's just not Athens).

Bruh, Pepe Sanchez tried to play in the NBA and couldn't even make it in the league. He was a decent PG in Temple, but not much more than that.

[Kawhitstorm]

Manu on steroids? Thats an impossibility.

Just look at how he trashed the Pistons in the 2005 ECF before he got injured (that's the MAIN reason why the Pistons won) then finished them off in the 2006 ECF. Wade in 2008-09 was right there with PEAK LeBron.

[Kawhitstorm]

Bruh, Pepe Sanchez tried to play in the NBA and couldn't even make it in the league. He was a decent PG in Temple, but not much more than that.

Pepe was a GREAT system player, he didn't have any issues outplaying NBA players on Team Argentina like Carlos Arroyo torching NBA MVPs in FIBA.

[ElNono]

Bruh, I'm OBVIOUSLY talking about him carrying a team for an ENTIRE season (i.e 2008-09) not a freakin' series. Shaq played like an all-star in ECF against none other than Ben Wallace but people forget b/c Wade memorized everyone in the Finals.

Wade lead the 2006 Heat in minutes, assists, steals, points (had as many as both Shaq and Walker combined)...

[Kawhitstorm]

Wade lead the 2006 Heat in minutes, assists, points (had as many as both Shaq and Walker combined)...

That has to do w/ him having a top 5 All-Time FINALS performance. Shaq wasn't even getting 10 shots a game b/c they were pick-n-rolling the Mavs to death. The Pistons were the best team that season & Shaq was a big part for why they didn't make it to the Finals.

You argument is boarding the "Tony carried the Spurs" against the Cavs narrative ...

[ElNono]

That has to do w/ him having a top 5 All-Time FINALS performance. Shaq wasn't even getting 10 shots a game b/c they were pick-n-rolling the Mavs to death. The Pistons were the best team that season & Shaq was a big part for why they didn't make it to the Finals.

Those are regular season numbers... He carried that team...

You can just take the L already on this, it's ok, we know...

[Kawhitstorm]

Those are regular season numbers... He carried that team...

You can just take the L already on this, it's ok, we know...

Shaq averaged 20/9 & Wade averaged 27/6 so I don't see how Wade is carrying the team unless you mean Shaq playing 59 games but that also happened when he played w/ the Lakers so I guess Kobe carried Shaq too.

In any case, the 2006 Pistons & Ben Wallace would beg to differ besides folks would have said that Tony carried Tim in 2012-13 if he didn't get injured.

[aal04]

Aint no one under 6'7 going to lead their team to a ship without a quality all-star big.

[Kawhitstorm]

Aint no one under 6'7 going to lead their team to a ship without a quality all-star big.

Last I checked Draymond wasn't an all-star last season.

[aal04]

Last I checked Draymond wasn't an all-star last season.

What I meant was you arent going to carry your team to a ring unless youre 6'7+. GSW wasnt carried last year, they got lucky with opponent injuries and had 3 legit All-Stars.

Only people to "carry" would be Dirk 11, Tim 03, Hakeem 90s.

[kaji157]

Lol at a lot of the explanation here just to discredit the.manu.
The threads point is simple. How would tony and manu would be without prime tim.

The variable here is, same resourses as tim did. Pop, the spurs, a very smart organozation around them, an all star to start their xareers alongside. Two all stars and potential n1 options around either of them for the remainder of their careers, that took paycuts for the betterment of the team.

I thinl, that if manu is given all timmys had he could have competed for a ring and maybe win it.

[diego]

Just like any other star Guards, they would need good teammates and coaching, good health and a little luck to have playoff success.individually no question they would be good, in manu's case especially but for both they would get a nice bump in their stats.

Manu's health is completely overblown. Look at Wade, Westbrook, rose, PG, even Leonard. You get injured quite a bit playing aggressive, it's normal.

[TDfan2007]

Did you guys watch Sprewell in Golden State? He wasn't bad in the 99 Finals against the Spurs either. There are a bunch of HOFers who can't say they were the best player on a Finals team or even made it to the Finals.

Muphuckas who never ACTUALLY watched him playing in Golden State acting like he was Michael Finley or some shyt just like folks who claim Manu was a role player b/c they never saw him pre-2011.

2nd year Spree:





Spree dueling w/ MVP Iverson better than Kobe in the Finals:



Spree making it rain:



Spree in the 99 Finals:



Spree destroying Pierce/Joe Johnson:



Spree outdueling Ray Allen:



Spree shutting down Vince:



Past prime Spree outplaying the same Kobe in the 2004 WCF:



Past prime Spree destroying Doug Christie:

Not saying that Spree was bad, just that he played a much different brand of basketball than Manu and impacted the game differently.

[DAF86]

Just look at how he trashed the Pistons in the 2005 ECF before he got injured (that's the MAIN reason why the Pistons won) then finished them off in the 2006 ECF. Wade in 2008-09 was right there with PEAK LeBron.

You didn't get the joke.

[Kawhitstorm]

What I meant was you arent going to carry your team to a ring unless youre 6'7+. GSW wasnt carried last year, they got lucky with opponent injuries and had 3 legit All-Stars.

Only people to "carry" would be Dirk 11, Tim 03, Hakeem 90s.

How in the did Dirk carry the Mavs when he shot 41% in the Finals & got outplayed by Wade (before he injured his hip in Gm 5) worst than Curry got outplayed by LeBron? The Mavs supporting cast was as good as the Dubs LAST season (when Draymond was just a role player) & they also lucked out (West contenders on a decline/Heatles 1st season)

[DMC]

I think neither do much tbh. Manu wouldn't get the chances after that wild ass he did early on. He'd be benched. Tony would never develop because he'd be too busy thugging it out.

[soxxx]

Not sure but glad we will never have to know. Manu and Tony will long be remembered in NBA history.

[TMTTRIO]

Weird thing about Manu is there were probably a lot of players who were more talented than Manu, but he had a way of making others better around him.