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Manu should be on the list imho, but it seems that numbers is all most ppl care...
After Magic and Zeke ... For me Stockton, Kidd, GP, Paul even Nash and eventually Curry all have cases. Not against Stockton at top 3 ...never Saw Big O. But I think IT is above Stockton not miles above but ahead.
Manu should be on the list imho, but it seems that numbers is all most ppl care...
To be quite honest, Isiah's career is the an hesis of what makes a player great in this era. Plain and simple, he was not efficient. His Efg%, TS% Raw (FG, 3FG, FT) percentage all fall short in the list of upper echelon players. His career PER is a measely 17.5 IIRC, He really didn't play all that well in the playoffs during the first le run, for instance.
I would throw it out there that by the time the Pistons were winning les, Isiah was no longer the clear cut best player on that team, or perhaps not even the most important. Zeke's peak was a good three to four years before the Pistons won a le. The Pistons got great when they became an ensemble, so I tend not to overvalue team success in determining individual greatness.
Starting a team with a 20-year-old version of each, I'd take Manu over almost everyone on that list.
1980s Lakers had 3 top ten all-time players.
Yeah the lakers were really a phenomenal organization, who would have thought one player can bring that all down.
agree with that. People forget those early 80s Piston squads that usta score crazy points. Zeke could fill it up. Probably Magic, Big O and Zeke. Or vice versa. Zeke and Big O.
6/6 > 2/6 tbh
Jerry West thought Dumars was the better overall player because of Joe's defense.For a forum infatuated with efficiency and advance statistics, it's quite hilarious to see most of you acknowledging Isiah Thomas who is statistically and efficiency one of the worst in the group...
I don't know enough abut Robertson. I have Magic, Stockton and Zeke in the top. Stockton was a great defender.
Kevin Durant #4
Rodman, MVPau and Hayes so far
Can't wait to see Anthony Davis' rank. Will probably be higher than Dirk's, tbh
3. Charles
2. Mailman
1. Duncan
Thomas had Daly, who I personally view as one of the greatest coaches of all time, along with Pop and Larry Brown. People give Phil a lot of credit, but I always see him as a great manager, not only of egos, but tasks. He knows how to utilize his resources, and steer them towards a common goal. Tex Winters didn't get a lot of the credit he deserved, and Phil's teams had always been stacked. True that he can keep the infighting to a minimal and get results out of them, but he didn't have that hand in building the roster.
Whereas Pop and Daly really had a vision, they take whatever they have on hand, make the necessary adjustments, and create systems that fit their teams. Pop had at least four iterations of championship teams (99, 03/05, 07, and 13 are very different teams) but Phil really had similar teams for all 11 of his championships. Pop was also the superior coach in building long term success for the team. Pop was also better in terms of adapting philosophies from different coaches (Daly, Rudy T, MDT, Brown, Nelson) and use it to his advantage, he's not so egoistic that he think he's above the rest.
Daly, on the other hand, looked at his team, and did things differently. That defensive unit, using Laimbeer as a stretch 5, that philosophy about rallying his troops, getting cohesive defensive effort from everyone, having people compete with each other in practice, but still having that teamwork during game time, getting people to sacrifice stats for winning.
And of course, people look at Malone like he's some kind of best of all time material. He's not. There really aren't a lot of chokers in the league, but him and Wilt are the only two who I would ever really call a choker. His offensive numbers were highly dependent on the Sloan system and Stockton. Boozer put up some great numbers using the same system and a worse PG in Deron Williams. Sure Boozer wasn't as good, but if you can have 75% of the impact with Boozer replacing you, you aren't that great to begin with.
I am not saying Stockton > Thomas, what I am saying is if Stockton was in the same situation, he may be able to proper as well. They have wildly different strengths, Thomas does most of his damage with his quickness and scoring, Stockton does it with his passing and precision. I am on the fence with them at 3/4, but they are most definitely two of the top 5 PGs of all time. It's a shame that Stockton played in the 90s, where the emphasis was more on isolation and PG's effectiveness was minimized. If he played in today's game, he would be more of a superstar in today's game, like what Nash was in his prime.
Isiah though, would have some issues, he just doesn't have that range, that said, he is a product of the age where he plays in, I can see him adapting and extending his range. He could be like a better driving/passing and smaller version of DWade in today's game.
That's the amazing thing about Thomas, is that he can have these crazy spurts. I think he once scored 16 points in the final 90 seconds of a game or something crazy like that. But he's also streaky, if his mid-range game was off though, you can play off of him and let him launch jumpers.
During the Piston's run, Dumars had a strong argument akin to Pau Gasol and B2B Lakers.
Dirk in the top 3, gotta say I'm impressed tbqh. Thought they'd put him at 5 max
In that there's no ing way they would have won without him? I agree. Rodman, Liambeer, Salley, Microwave, and even Budda all played a part in their run. Doesn't mean Isiah wasn't a ing stud.
He's quite good, but like I said on page 1. He's not necessarily the best or even the most valuable. He peaked 3-4 years before the Pistons became an ensemble and a championship team.
i think thomas is overrated. all time great, yeah but not in the same breath as magic. stockton could win with that pistons squad tbh...
and if you put Thomas in utah with Malone, I betcha it would yield the same result.
Disagree. He realized that heroballing wasn't going to win him a championship.
So saying that he and Stockton are on the same level doesn't seem like overrating to me. Both Stockton and Isiah are better point guards than Magic but they could only play one position.
And Magic's success drove him to, in essence, two-piece Johnson.
Are you using the word two-piece as a verb? I don't know what that means.
Losing to Boston and LA is a good way to teach someone that you can't win by yourself. Isiah seems to have learned the lesson quicker than Jordan did. Without lucking into Scottie Pippen, I'm not sure that Jordan would have ever figured it out.
He's trying to start a new ST meme. He's used it three or four times in as many posts. Just ignore him.
He's streets ahead.
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