Manu ranked #61 All-Time NBA by ESPN

[will_spurs]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...-nbarank-61-70

Position
Shooting guard
Teams
San Antonio Spurs (2002-present)
Honors
Two-time All-Star, two-time All-NBA selection, Sixth Man of the Year (2007-08)
Championships
4 (2003, 2005, 2007, 2014)
Career stats
14.2 PPG, 4.0 APG, 1.4 SPG, .450 FG%
Did you know?
Ginobili is part of the winningest trio (alongside Tim Duncan and Tony Parker) in NBA history. They passed the mark previously held by Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish. -- ESPN Stats & Info

Ahead of T-Mac, Rodman, C-Webb, Dwight Howard, Vince Carter or Artis Gilmore...

Not sure where Parker will end up. Duncan surely top 10, I expect Jordan at #1, are they going to dare put Duncan #2?

[dabom]

I saw this earlier. Definitely ing stupid.

[apalisoc_9]

Smdh..any list with Kevin love over shawn kemp is re ed.

Kevin love and Marc Gasol over Kawhi

[dabom]

Smdh..any list with Kevin love over shawn kemp is re ed.

Kevin love and Marc Gasol over Kawhi

I saw that. I was expecting Kawhi somewhere around here but nope.

[SpursFan86]

Hate to start a "player fan" war, but honestly I think it's ridiculous to put Parker above Manu. Sure, the raw numbers paint a fairly even comparison, but the impact Manu has had over the years far outweighs Parker's impact. I think Manu is better than Parker and it isn't particularly close.

[dabom]

This list is the kevin love of top 100 lists.

[K...]

with voting based on both peak performance and career value

Career value. That's why gino is low. Also I'm not sure why y'all assume Parker is making the list at all.

[TheGreatYacht]

Hate to start a "player fan" war, but honestly I think it's ridiculous to put Parker above Manu. Sure, the raw numbers paint a fairly even comparison, but the impact Manu has had over the years far outweighs Parker's impact. I think Manu is better than Parker and it isn't particularly close.

Parker played against elite compition almost every game, the golden era of point guards.... Manu played against second units tbh.

I got Parker over Manu, the numbers are there. Unless you pick Parker's weakness which is EFG% since he was never an elite 3pt shooter.

[ElNono]

^ Manu played in a golden era of SGs, tbh... Kobe, T-Mac, Wade, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, prime Joe Johnson, etc... he was a starter for a good while and always closed games against those guys...

That position has really dropped in quality lately, with Harden basically the only stand out...

It's fine people might rank TP over Manu, tbh, it's an opinion and TP certainly had the longer NBA career... but they both have played long enough against very elite compe ion (and won).

[TheGreatYacht]

^ Manu played in a golden era of SGs, tbh... Kobe, T-Mac, Wade, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, prime Joe Johnson, etc... he was a starter for a good while and always closed games against those guys...

That position has really dropped in quality lately, with Harden basically the only stand out...

It's fine people might rank TP over Manu, tbh, it's an opinion and TP certainly had the longer NBA career... but they both have played long enough against very elite compe ion (and won).

You can go with either, but to call it ridiculous to rank Parker above Manu is stupid.

[Brazil]

oh again a manu tp thread.... this board is never tired of the same old tbh


I love dat SF86 (the is he tbh ?) with the "I hate to start a war" but you know wht I'm gonna do it nonetheless... here no subtle "this is ridiculous" and "it's not even close"



For the rest, what ElNono said... more or less

[vander]

Hate to start a "player fan" war, but honestly I think it's ridiculous to put Parker above Manu. Sure, the raw numbers paint a fairly even comparison, but the impact Manu has had over the years far outweighs Parker's impact. I think Manu is better than Parker and it isn't particularly close.

however there's also:
2 turnovers per game in only 26 minutes per game.
fragile, I think the only times he averaged 30 minutes a game he got injured around playoff time.
and obviously his stats were inflated by coming off the bench.

[SpursFan86]

Parker played against elite compition almost every game, the golden era of point guards.... Manu played against second units tbh.

I got Parker over Manu, the numbers are there. Unless you pick Parker's weakness which is EFG% since he was never an elite 3pt shooter.

Are we supposed to act like Manu wasn't playing a lot of minutes with the starters as well + always in the game during crunch time against opposing teams' best lineups?

Parker's main argument comes from the simple fact he played much more than Manu did...but even in Manu's limited playing time, he managed to have more impact on games than Parker did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to act like Parker isn't a great player. It really has more to do with how highly I view Manu. I don't think people realize just how amazing he's been throughout his career due to his per game numbers not being as gaudy as other guys' numbers.

[spurs10]

Doubt we'll see many people at his position that can match his accomplishments. Winning does matter!

[SpursFan86]

oh again a manu tp thread.... this board is never tired of the same old tbh


I love dat SF86 (the is he tbh ?) with the "I hate to start a war" but you know wht I'm gonna do it nonetheless... here no subtle "this is ridiculous" and "it's not even close"



For the rest, what ElNono said... more or less

Who gives a ? I come onto this forum to discuss Spurs' basketball If you're tired of the same discussions then that's fine but don't get so defensive when others want to discuss it.

When I say "I don't want to start a player fan war", I'm referring to the stupid troll arguments where people end up talking about irrelevant ("Parker is only good at ing his teammates' wives tbh"). I'm perfectly fine with starting a reasonable debate about Parker vs. Manu.

[BillMc]

oh again a manu tp thread.... this board is never tired of the same old tbh

Anyone notice how well Scola is playing?

[beirmeistr]

Are we supposed to act like Manu wasn't playing a lot of minutes with the starters as well + always in the game during crunch time against opposing teams' best lineups?

Parker's main argument comes from the simple fact he played much more than Manu did...but even in Manu's limited playing time, he managed to have more impact on games than Parker did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to act like Parker isn't a great player. It really has more to do with how highly I view Manu. I don't think people realize just how amazing he's been throughout his career due to his per game numbers not being as gaudy as other guys' numbers.

Pop values him pretty highly also. He used him as his closer a lot in the past.

[hitmantb]

Manu's greatest accomplishment for me was defeating Tim Duncan at the peak of his power in the Olympics.

But Parker's FMVP, fair or not, may push him above Manu on the ranking.

Would you really take either over peak TMac/Vince Carter/Dwight Howard? Probably not, but looking at their overall career, they have accomplished way more.

It is extremely extremely hard to rank players from 20-100, ESPN is doing as good a job as any IMO, and this is the highest profile top list since NBA's own top 50, so expect this to be the gold standard for a while.

[spurraider21]

oh again a manu tp thread.... this board is never tired of the same old tbh


I love dat SF86 (the is he tbh ?) with the "I hate to start a war" but you know wht I'm gonna do it nonetheless... here no subtle "this is ridiculous" and "it's not even close"



For the rest, what ElNono said... more or less

manu is better tho

[cd98]

To many "know nothings" think the quality of a basketball player depends heaving on their points per game. But that doesn't tell you everything and certainly someone with scoring ability doesn't ensure that his team will win. Manu is an all-time great event though he may not have gaudy point per game stats. He's a tremendous all-around player, both offense and defense and passing. It's rare to find a player with his entire skill set. Usually, you need three players to spell what he does.

[beirmeistr]

I wish ESPN would compile rankings for alltime international basketball.

[daledondale]

^ Manu played in a golden era of SGs, tbh... Kobe, T-Mac, Wade, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, prime Joe Johnson, etc... he was a starter for a good while and always closed games against those guys...

That position has really dropped in quality lately, with Harden basically the only stand out...

It's fine people might rank TP over Manu, tbh, it's an opinion and TP certainly had the longer NBA career... but they both have played long enough against very elite compe ion (and won).

Pretty much this. I prefer Manu, but respect people who choose Tony. Both great players, both winners and both in silver & black.

[ajh18]

For any given minute on the court, I'd take Manu.

For a season or career? Much harder to say given how many more minutes Tony contributes at a high level.

Tony was a borderline MVP candidate for 2-3 years and Finals MVP, both of which are a bit above what Manu achieved in those areas. Manu is the ultimate winner at every level, and I prefer his game a bit more on the court.

No shame in picking either. I have them very close all-time.

Tim? He should be at least in the 3-6 range. I have him around 5, but we'll see what ESPN does. The only two I put him behind solidly are Kareem and MJ. Magic, Wilt, and Russell are the other candidates I think should be considered his peers, and then it comes down to preference. After that there's a drop off to the Birds, Shaqs, Kobes, Hakeems, Lebrons, and Big Os of the world.

[houston spurs fan]

I know I know, Olympics don't count but what he and the boys did in 2004 may never be seen again. Ever.

[BillMc]

I know I know, Olympics don't count but what he and the boys did in 2004 may never be seen again. Ever.

This. Manu became a lock for the hall of fame that Olympics. HOF's International committee was never going to forget that.