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Fuzzy going in.
TD21 was right:
Credibility indeed.
Fuzzy going in.
Daboom is your biggest fan... hilarious considering he is the boards Brenden Dassy.
Does anyone ever respond to your takes steeled got? Thought so.
Don't be like unt or whatever that got is called. You people keep getting ignored and you don't even know it.
No, I said Boban's stats are sandbagged with minutes. You acknowledged it but lodged those stats anyhow.
Your entire schtick is being a a got. I'm pretty sure that's you IRL.
"hurr durr you responded ergo vis a vis I am smart"
People trying to sound intelligent on a message board.
To the topic on hand, Boban played well last night and Whiteside only scored one basket on him which even then was luck as it rolled around on the rim and looked like it was coming off before magically just fallin in.
Boban pushed Whiteside around like a little , which caused Whiteside to throw a cheapshot elbow at Boban. And Boban did a great job of protecting the rim last night. Still needs to set stronger picks on offense and needs to hedge harder on D. But he did a better job in both departments last night.
And people saying he is 28, he is 27 and won't be 28 until August. The guy has potential and with Duncan's tutelage and guy should be ready by next year to a solid playoff contributor no doubt. People nowadays are just so in' impatient and want to see the end product of things asap.
Trying to act high and mighty and missing the fact that people are talking about him being 28 NEXT YEAR, not this year.
How about this: Instead of assuming that folks don't know basic demographic and statistical facts about Boban (his age, size, NBA tenure, per-36 stats, etc), we concede that the other side of the issue is more complicated than that. No one but DMC thinks Boban is as good as he's going to be. The question is if he's going to be good enough fast enough to justify the Spurs using what is possibly their only non-minimum contract on him. It's whether he's going to be able to be an every-game center taking on 30 MPG. It's whether he can do enough to prevent other teams from phasing him out of certain match-ups.
None of that is settled because he had a good game against Whiteside. And it wasn't settled when Boban had his stretch of poor games. It won't be settled when he has his next bad or good game. This is something that may not be settled until the Spurs are forced to pick a path to build next season's roster. And even then, we may be bemoaning the team's choice for years.
People's overreaction to single games that happen to confirm their views is just silly.
Assuming. Look at the previous posts, several posters in several threads have said he is 28 already. Maybe they are inferring he will be 28 by next season, but he still will be only 27 when FA rolls around.
Look at the previous posts, over half have nothing to do with Boban and everything to do with being proven right. I am not high and mighty, I think it's ridiculous. WHO GIVES A . This is a Spurs message board. I respect the fact some think Boban is a good as he is going to be. But there are others who do not. But I simply state the fact he is A ROOKIE is the most complex system in the NBA as Fuzzy has mentioned as well.
This isn't Blair where talking about who had like 4 years here and did nothing to improve himself. This is a guy who missed TC recovering from surgery on a fractured ankle. Someone who has NEVER played a minute of NBA basketball on any level. Someone still overcoming the language barrier (something you see Diaw helps him with a lot on the court). Someone who is learning on the fly and hasn't had a full season as a cemented player in the Spurs bench rotation.
If people think that he won't improve that is their take. My differs. I think he will improve. I have stated my reasons. I also point out what Boban does do wrong and he makes a lot of mistakes, which you expect from a rookie. But if I notice these mistakes, you can bet your ass the Spurs coaches do. He is gradually improving on a game to game basis and that is a good sign. You can't ask for more at this point.
And you say that people confirming their projections after ONE GAME. Who did that. Tell me, who did that. NO ONE. From what I read, people said he is showing signs of improvement. That's not confirming anything as IMO Boban is about halfway to what I think he is capable of. He has a ways to go before I would consider him a finished product.
Is he good enough for the Spurs to use the MLE or a large or portion of it on Boban, let me see, the going rate for A HALF DECENT C nowadays is 10-12 mil. A very good C 13-15 mil. A Superstar C, 16-24 mil + depending on his years in the league and the max allowed (not factoring the rookie scale). Based on this, I would say yes, even with what Boban has shown thus far this year. 5 mil to drop on Boban would be FMV through and through considering the price tag of his position, his age, and his potential.
He'll be a 28-year-old project on an MLE deal next year. That's the entire sticking point. Not that he's a 27-year-old project making a million bucks this year. That's why the distinction matters.
This was the entire point of my critique. You pay attention to most what I said and are still trying to act high and mighty. ONLY DMC (who's trolling like a mofo right now) and maybe steel think Boban won't get better. So all this talk about us having to realize that Boban is a rookie trying to learn the system just reeks of condescension. As if there's a large swath of people who don't know Boban wasn't in the NBA last year.Look at the previous posts, over half have nothing to do with Boban and everything to do with being proven right. I am not high and mighty, I think it's ridiculous. WHO GIVES A . This is a Spurs message board. I respect the fact some think Boban is a good as he is going to be. But there are others who do not. But I simply state the fact he is A ROOKIE is the most complex system in the NBA as Fuzzy has mentioned as well.
I said (paraphrasing), 'Instead of assuming people don't know basic facts, assume their arguments are more complex and actually address them.' Instead, you regurgitated the same defense that no one was arguing against. We all think Boban will get better next season. , he's better than he was two months ago. But that doesn't mean that we should project him as a core player going forward, and that's a choice the Spurs have to make with the way his contract is.
You've been around ST long enough to know what I'm talking about. Just look at the "Is Aldridge worth it?" thread to see how people run to bump things or claim victory on both sides after any game. The various Green threads are the same way. Maybe you would have posted the same defense had Boban fouled out in like a minute last night. But all I was saying is that we don't have enough evidence know what decision the team should make yet. It's too murky, and no matter what, one game can't sway the decision by itself. It wasn't a shot at you.And you say that people confirming their projections after ONE GAME. Who did that. Tell me, who did that. NO ONE. From what I read, people said he is showing signs of improvement. That's not confirming anything as IMO Boban is about halfway to what I think he is capable of. He has a ways to go before I would consider him a finished product.
That ignores the entire situation. In a vacuum, Boban is worth several million a year. Few would argue that. But the Spurs are going to have to deal with having so many old guys soon -- either this summer or next. When those guys retire, it's going to become obvious that the team has been experiencing a nearly unprecedented skew in their talent-to-salary ratio. They're going to have a lot of holes and very little means of filling them unless Tim and Manu again come back and kick the can down the road. If even one of them retires, the Spurs all of the sudden have much bigger concerns than keeping a project center.Is he good enough for the Spurs to use the MLE or a large or portion of it on Boban, let me see, the going rate for A HALF DECENT C nowadays is 10-12 mil. A very good C 13-15 mil. A Superstar C, 16-24 mil + depending on his years in the league and the max allowed (not factoring the rookie scale). Based on this, I would say yes, even with what Boban has shown thus far this year. 5 mil to drop on Boban would be FMV through and through considering the price tag of his position, his age, and his potential.
You're assuming that I was talking about you. I said several posters, not you. You just said DMC and Steel stated he wouldn't improve and then say everyone thinks he will improved.
Dude, I have stated my points and yes he is worth it. Is it murky, maybe to you and you stated why. Is it murky to me, No, I have stated why. And that is how a basketball discussion should go. Again, look at the previous post and it is nothing like that. Boban only had one foul last night, as he is learning not to reach when he doesn't have to.
And for the Spurs C situation.
http://hoopshype.com/2016/01/16/nba-...-2016-centers/
And I have already said I think the Spurs should go after Noah IF Duncan retires. Pretty much the only C on that list that I think fits the Spurs system who will be in the Spurs price range.
Spurs are at 82 mil right now. If Duncan/Manu retire, Spurs will be around 74 mil. Let's say the cap goes up to 87mil, Spurs can split that and give Noah 8 mil, West 3 mil and Ray 2mil. Spurs restrict Boban and just match whatever team tries to sign him. Considering Noah's injury concern and drop off, I think the Spurs could get him for that price. He could start and Boban can be the backup and West/Diaw can be LMA backup, while still playing a mixture of everyone to keep everyone fresh for the playoffs.
Spurs are in a good situation to replace Duncan while retaining Boban due to the RFA status.
Spurs don't have Bird Rights on Boban. If they tender the QO then the Arenas Rule will apply. Depending on their cap situation, they will have to use cap space or the MLE to sign Boban.
Reading through this thread I have a feeling most people who want to keep Boban have the false premise that the Spurs have his bird rights, when the reality is that he might be the only non-minimum contract they'd sign next summer.
Yes! Thank you. And while that's not a HUGE deal if Tim, Manu and especially West come back, the issue is that even if all of those guys retire, the Spurs will likely not have cap space (as I believe that the Spurs are guaranteeing that money even if the Greybeards don't come back). That is why the Spurs have to scrutinize Boban carefully and make sure he's a guy they want to use the MLE on.
It's best if TD and Manu don't retire. But I think they come back for one more season. The only change I see is Bonner spot opening for Bertans and possibly Ray getting a larger offer than the Spurs would want to match.
As Mel said, it doesn't seem like you understand the gravity of the Spurs' upcoming off-season issues. They will likely have to choose between Boban or a vet center. The only way to get both would be like TD21 said -- pick up a min-level vet. But that guy is probably not a Spurs-level starter. Best I could see coming from that is Jason Thompson. And that's pretty horrible. I've been saying the whole time that the situation is a lot more complicated than people are giving it credit for. I really wish it were as simple as looking a Boban's game and deciding if he's worth the money. But it's not.
Okay, but my point was that your 'cap space player/players plus a matched Boban' scenario is not possible.
Yeah, it's like the Rockets and McDaniels last year. They literally couldn't use a dollar of the MLE until after they got KJM to agree to a new deal. If the Spurs want to bring in Bertans or Cady on a long-term deal, they'll have to wait until after Boban makes his decision in order to keep their absolute right of first refusal, and that could make filling out the bottom of the roster annoying, though probably not difficult.
Spurs will have 13+ mil IF TD and Manu retire. 15+mil if West retires.
As the Spurs have shown, they are still a playoff team w/o TD and Manu so its not that grave. If the Spurs could get Noah for around 8mil it would definitely soften the blow.
So my final assessment would be, if Duncan stays, Boban is definitely worth the MLE. If Duncan retires, it will depend if the Spurs can sign someone like Noah for a reasonable deal. Either way, Spurs situation is not terrible. RC will just to have work his magic with the numbers for another off season, which probably becoming a headache of late.
I concur.
No. They won't. That money in those second-year options is theirs. If they weren't planning on taking it, they would have signed one-year deals. The Spurs could free up about that much by stretching the contracts and waiving Diaw, but they have probably planned to take that whole hit next season.
That's why I said it's a lot graver than people realize.
I think the disconnect is that you should write less and articulate more.
The gravity of the situation?
You've given up trying to argue that West should play the 5. You've been told that we understand the limited funds we can spend. You keep talking about 'opportunity cost' but when we ask for specifics of what opportunities we can get for the MLE or trade you have absolutely nothing. You have no better options. This makes sense because 10/7 guys get 8 figure salaries so you really don't have a leg to stand on. More complex that we give it credit for? What horse .
Basically all you are doing is saying you want to do better than Boban with some nebulous worry about his development that you also cannot articulate. Tiago and Baynes are comparable bigs who came over at about the same age, from the same league, played the same position, and are on the same development path. You just want to boil it down to his demographics as read off his bio.
It's not anecdotal to describe his path. REcently Popovich has been playing him in the meat of games. Sure its dictated by matchup but Pop wouldn't waste his time if he thought like you do. Elliott was saying that early in teh year they weren't sure what they were going to do with him. Now Pop is very obviously trying to find him minutes.
You talk about his demographics and repeat we already know and are obtuse to the fact that the development of Europeans C in the Spurs subsumes that. You instead want to treat Boban like he is a draftee that is his age and act like it's comparable. It's not as shown by Baynes and Splitter who came along just fine. Boban is progressing more quickly. This is very similar to how baseball statisticians adjust for Japanese and Cuban players for their progressions. When Ichiro or Matsui come over they don't take their age and compare it to draftees saying they won't develop. It's ham handed and misses the point of whats going on.
If you are going to do statistical analysis and simply ignore the mecahnics and reality of the cir stances you are trying to interpret you are always going to be blindly guessing. You should have known last year the TV deal would inflate the cap figure as you were told.
With the league going smaller, there's going to be a fire sale for most centers.
There was a recent article that the Thunder are in are trouble because they invested heavily on guys like Adams, Kanter and Collison. Guys that don't translate well to small ball. Thunder was able to catch up with GSW only because they had Ibaka at C and Durant at the 4.
The main perceived liability for Boban is his lack of quickness in defense. That's going to suppress teams from paying premium for him.
Boban is an okay player, but he needs good teammates to compensate for his weaknesses and to exploit his strengths. You need players that funnel players to him on defense and are able to pass to him at the right spots in offense.
There's also something weird about his screens in that the team is just going through the motions and not really using them.
If they retire its not guaranteed. Its a player option and who knows what they will do particularly with West who likely will go for another pay day. After years of the Spurs arranging deals clandestinely like Kawhi, Danny, Manu, and Tim last year you would think that you would finally catchup. Go ahead and dismiss it as teleological and wave your hands at your nebulous worry of a worst case.
That is assuming they will opt in and retire. I was assuming they don't pick up their options and just retire. If they do the former, the Spurs are kind of screwed, FA wise.
If they opt in to their 2nd years, I think they will play. And the recent comments of both Tim and Manu wanting to get back on the court tells me they still have passion for the game, which is a good sign. The only change I really see is Bertans taking Bonner spot on the roster.
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