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I don't see the spurs moving four guys at the deadline. Maybe one, and I think it be ray or butler.
It's actually a little closer to $25 Million when you factor in the million less in cap and the .93 multiplier you have to put in to get the max salary from the cap. But yeah, it's a major question of value. If the Spurs get REALLY lucky, they could squeeze out a max for Horford, but it would require moving Mills, Anderson and Diaw for noting, West, Duncan and Manu opting out and the Spurs stashing/trading all of the firsts. That's so not worth it, it's not even funny.
Trading for him this year would be interesting only if the team can get away with mostly Diaw's salary being used as ballast. Thing is, they need to send out at least $9.6 Million to keep take back Horford.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zaukfz6
With no more than a first and a prospect going over, as Kyle and Boban are prospects in their own rights. I would consider this deal, as Butler can fill the back-up three with Manu is out and the team has horses to run there anyway. Issue is, this would cost the Spurs a LOT of money. Like if the Spurs send Atlanta the cash to cover Diaw's buyout, then they would spend about $10 in additional cash on this deal. When you add in what they'd have to pay Horford next off-season, that's some STEEP .
But look at this rotation:
Parker, Mills, McCallum
Green, Ginobili, Holiday
Leonard, Simmons, Patterson
LMA, West, Butler
Horford, Duncan, Muscala
That's crazy-solid, and pretty much the entire backend is on non-guaranteed deals or options, so it would give the team roster flexibility with trades and with bringing guys over.
I don't see the spurs moving four guys at the deadline. Maybe one, and I think it be ray or butler.
I think if it were egregious, it could. Like Green for Horford over Crowder, Amir and the Brooklyn first this year would definitely cause some grumbling. But if it's Green, Bertans and a couple of firsts over David Lee and some of Boston's least attractive picks (their own first and the Minny pick for example), I don't think the league says anything. Even if Boston is willing to offer more and just doesn't get the chance, the league isn't going to dock the Hawks for not chasing Ainge around looking to make a deal with a conference rival.
I was being a bit sarcastic, though your specifics are well-taken. In particular, the Lakers might object to a sweetheart deal that goes unchecked by the league.
I think it's fair to mention, traditionally spurs don't trade to rivals or in conference. Maybe Bud is of that mold. Jus sayin. In this case maybe bud doesn't want to help Boston get better and then have to play them in the playoffs...
You've always looked like an ass for your Green hate, and not just because of you aesthetically pleasing avatar even if it's the entire impetus for my word choice. The team is all the sudden turning into an offensive juggernaut now that Green is shooting well, and it just goes right past you. I don't have to defend Green's importance to the team, as he has put in five years of starting to do that. But the Spurs are one light without him, and they probably don't even get LMA this season without his production.
No one in their right mind thinks Green didn't start off the year poorly. But just as many people should understand how different the Spurs are when he's playing well.
Think more likely the Mavs and Knicks would.
Boris Diaw doesn't need to go anywhere. He's way too versatile for the Spurs to trade.
Sure lets just ship off one of the guys who will be vital against GSW. Not to mention one of our better 3 point shooters. Seems legit tho.
Too good to be truth.
And his defense, and his position, and his ability to adjust to significantly tougher compe ion.It's his shooting, it's deadly. Imo he is in a tier ahead of cady and ljc. His shooting is what makes him special. Look at the rate the 3pt shot has grown over the past few years. A lights out shooter is at a premium. I would imagine teams see him with the range he has and release and are salivating. Or he could be the next jimmer.just saying, I'm buying stock in bertans. The only question is his health.
I don't disagree, but the Spurs have a long history of moving picks during a le push. And with the coffers being so full from stashing, it's not a bad time to make such a move. They just need to find a young guard.I'll keep this short, no way would I give up three firsts for Horford. We build through the draft and with the success rate we 've had our picks are way more valuable to us.
Aldridge is playing best as a center right now. And those guys aren't smaller than Horford is. Ibaka and Noel are much better rim-protectors than Horford as well. LMA is going to be a center going forward, as there just aren't many players who are bigger than him who can play in this league. The best thing the Spurs can do is get the best big to put next to him that they can so teams can't just beat him up inside. You don't turn down a star PF because LMA thinks of himself as a four. That's silly. And they're not concerned with 32-year-old LMA opting out in 2018. Too many things will happen before them.Griffin, ibaka, and Noel are power forwards. We will need a center and these guys are not spurs. Aldridge plays best as power forward against smaller players. We need a rim protector next to him. And when you have a chance to get a talent like horfords with the character he has, he's the best fit. Going into this new era, you don't want to sacrifice your morale for talent and as of now we have a three year window while Aldridge is here to show him we mean business and win a chip or else he might leave too. Horford is talented and he fits the mold and so would Korver for that matter.
Nah, the Spurs will just be bidding for a two-guard instead of a center in a market where they aren't really that easy to find.Yeah things will be different. Seeing us in a bidding war would make me sick before because we would lose but now we might actually have an attractive winning situation. I think if we can bypass this we do though.
Now that's a dude who's playing poorly right now. Can't post-up anyone unless he has a mismatch, doesn't defend and isn't hitting from outside. And his contract is structured to be traded, unlike Green's. I'm not against keeping them both, but it makes no sense to consider him a keeping (and push one of him or West out of the rotation) so you can trade your starting two-guard for a center.
You actually think I HATE on Green because I saw the logic in letting him leave via FA if it meant getting Aldridge? If I'm not mistaken, you said you didn't want Aldridge if meant losing Green. Now you think I'm continuing to HATE on Green if it means getting Al Holford? Man, you are twisted. Both those BIGS are All-Star caliber players and the Spurs are going to have a HUGE hole in the middle when Tim likely retires.
Jonathan Simmons (Rookie) is at a 12 PER this season while Green is at 10.75. Green is making $11 million this season and is averaging 1.5 points (7.5) more than Simmons. If Green really looked like a difference maker on defense, I could see your point but he's not. He has struggled mightily this year both on D and offense.
SMH at you thinking the Spurs are looking like an offensive juggernaut recently because of Green and NOT Aldridge's fantastic play of late. What's wrong with you?
Yeah, and I didn't want LMA if it meant losing Green, for the exact reason I don't want to trade him for Horford now. The team would have no starting two-guard and would be a paper tiger. The Spurs clearly wanted to keep Green as well, hence why they gave away Splitter. And I don't think they'd consider moving Green for Horford now. For all the talk about the hole the Spurs will have once Tim leaves, you're completely ignoring that Tim is here NOW.
The Spurs won't be concerned with replacing Tim until he's gone, and they only want to give him the best chance to win another le. Moving Green for Horford DOESN'T do that, because it's a perimeter-oriented game, and you need guards who can defend more than you need a third high-level big. And again, you're in favor of making one of Diaw or West the fifth big and completely skewing the roster. That's what's twisted.
What date is it to you? Because here in 2016, Green is playing MUCH better. He can't do anything about how horrible he was the start the year. That will affect his averages for the whole season. But that you ignore or don't know how much better he's been suggests you haven't been watching recent games. I call that hate, as it's not grounded in reality.Jonathan Simmons (Rookie) is at a 12 PER this season while Green is at 10.75. Green is making $11 million this season and is averaging 1.5 points (7.5) more than Simmons. If Green really looked like a difference maker on defense, I could see your point but he's not. He has struggled mightily this year both on D and offense.
Yeah, no. LMA has been playing well, no doubt. But the reason why the first unit is playing better is because Green is actually pulling his weight on that end now. He has one of the highest gravity ratings in the league, and that opens up the offense for everyone else. I don't expect you to understand that, as you are trying to use stats like PER to measure his worth. LMA has been having a better time of it now that he's let himself flow with the offense. It's not like he's just beasting over double-teams. He's benefited from Green's spacing more than the other way around.SMH at you thinking the Spurs are looking like an offensive juggernaut recently because of Green and NOT Aldridge's fantastic play of late. What's wrong with you?
Not sure why the Hawks would trade Horford being only 29 and in the prime of his career unless they assume he's gonna be gone in free agency.
I wouldn't stay there if I were him, but money talks.
The mobility of Boris' contract starts to get interesting right around now. If the trade is centered around him it'd take multiple future firsts to get Atlanta on board and another good small asset like Simmons or Anderson.
But that isn't so bad. The picks will be in the 20s + if the Spurs have done their homework some of the stashes should be coming home to roost.
For me the question is whether Hortford is the guy you want to commit 25m+ a year too for the long haul. For me a long term upgrade to the PG or SG is where I'd s the money. Like if the Wiz implode in two years id start making calls on an older John Wall.
Last edited by CGD; 02-15-2016 at 12:36 PM.
Either this or they don't want to pay him $150 million.
Horford's per-36 numbers are 17/8/4/1/2 on 51/34/78. Those are solid numbers. But they aren't superstar numbers. Those would put him behind Kawhi and LMA and about even with Parker. Obviously the benefit is supposed to be defense, but his DRtg is mediocre for a defensive big. I'm sure would be better on the Spurs, but it's not great. The point is that Al isn't a guy worth breaking up a championship-caliber rotation for. If you can keep your basic rotation and add him, yeah, you do it. You even give up premium value in terms of non-rotation pieces. But you don't sell the farm for him.
And CGD's point is well noted, but at the same time, you are going to have to pay market value for each of these players anyway.
Dwight Howard could be moved by Thursday's trade deadline. Miami is talking with Houston about a deal that would include Hassan Whiteside.
I forgot where i heard this from (it may have been CBS eye on basketball podcast) but they said that there is concern in Atlanta's front office) that he will walk in FA.
Hawks should trade Horford for anything they can get, tbh..he's in the same territory as Mike Conley(Horford is better), a #3 guy on a le team that will get paid close to #1 salary..
Horford will probably end up in Toronto or Boston...these two teams have the most asset and have players they are willing to trade.
Green has easily been the 3rd best player on the team since 2016 began, which is what was expected, since he was also the 3rd best player, last year..
Horford is obviously much better, but if you're left with an inexperienced player and poor defender like Simmons starting in the playoffs, you're ed, especially if Ginoboli can't play big minutes..
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