Kawhi should be the MVP of the league

[NameLess Scrub]

Take Curry out of the Warriors and there goes the spacing, the video game, and the historic season.

[SpursFan86]

The reality is, there is no race for the MVP. Curry is having a historically great season (impacting the game as much as possible for someone of his stature) and barring a significant injury, had it wrapped up 20 something games in.

+1

I think Kawhi is a monster, and is definitely top 3 in the MVP race...but there's no one particularly close to Curry right now. Maybe if he slows down (feel like I've been saying this since December ) it'll become more of a discussion, but right now there's no debate.

Curry has Kawhi trumped by a wide margin in practically every advanced metric out there:

RPM: Curry - 10.55, Kawhi - 8.75
PER: Curry - 31.9 (would be the highest single season PER of all-time), Kawhi - 25.7
WS/48: Curry - .332 (would be 2nd highest of all-time), Kawhi - .279
BPM: Curry - 12.5 (would be 4th highest of all-time), Kawhi - 7.9
Raw on/off: Curry - +27.0 (+20.4 with Curry on, -6.6 with him off), Kawhi - +5.2 (+15.4 with him on, +10.2 with him off)

Sure, you can point to Curry having guys like Klay and Draymond. But when you look at the numbers, everything revolves around Curry. Even when Draymond/Klay are both on the court, the Warriors fall off a cliff when Steph sits out. I'm not sure the Warriors have any particularly successful lineups that don't involve Curry.

Throw in the fact that the Warriors are on pace to break the record for most wins in a season, and the gap just gets even wider.

Kawhi is extremely important to this team, but our team doesn't revolve around him the same way the Warriors revolve around Curry. That's not even a dig at Kawhi - our team does revolve around him quite a bit. Curry is just on another level when it comes to impacting games and changing how other teams choose to defend.

[DAF86]

Manu gonna turn back the clock, tony gonna turn back the clock, tim gonna turn back the clock, green stops being a role player, LMA gonna hulk us to a 7 game series win.

The warriors would beat the Spurs in 6.

You can't be serious.

Should have wrote: "I like our chances better in a no-Kawhi, no-Curry series than in an injury free one". I don't know if we would beat them but I would rather play them without the ing beast that can make 30 footers like lay-ups and on which 90% of the Warriors offense revolves around, tbh.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

This why many see Kawhi as the best TWO-WAY player in the league right now. Numbers and current showing of the Spurs are proving just that.

[Ruler]

I dislike Curry quite a bit and I'm a huge Kawhi fan, but come on. Steph is simply amazing this year. I've never seen anything like it. The only way Kawhi could even come close is if he was putting up more numbers (meaning more minutes). Something like: 25pts, 8rbs, 5ast, 2stl, 1blk on 50/45/90 and <1.5 TO's / game. But with all the weapons SA currently has and the minutes Leonard plays, that's simply impossible.

[Kawhitstorm]

I dislike Curry quite a bit and I'm a huge Kawhi fan, but come on. Steph is simply amazing this year. I've never seen anything like it. The only way Kawhi could even come close is if he was putting up more numbers (meaning more minutes). Something like: 25pts, 8rbs, 5ast, 2stl, 1blk on 50/45/90 and <1.5 TO's / game. But with all the weapons SA currently has and the minutes Leonard plays, that's simply impossible.

Who cares about REGULAR season MVPs, all Kawhi cares about is the one awarded in June.

Curry: 0-1
Kawhi: 1-1

[lilbthebasedgod]

Not even close. Honestly, he's not our most important defensive player and his offense has slowed. Curry should be MVP. People seriously underrate his defense btw.

[K...]

Who cares about REGULAR season MVPs, all Kawhi cares about is the one awarded in June.

Curry: 0-1
Kawhi: 1-1

This is the dumbest thing. Regular season mvps are about 10x more important than finals mvp, unless you're a hard core Parker fan and then it's much closer.

[Spurs_619]

Kawhi gets discredited because he plays with 3 HOFers, as if those guys are in their prime vs the tail end of their careers. Not to discredit the Big3 because having them around helped Kawhi's development on (not having a lot of pressure to perform early in his career) and off the court.


Still it'll be tough to make a case for anyone other than Curry to win the MVP this season.

.

This has always bothered me people try to make it seem like kawhi got to play with a prime big three.

[tonight...you]

It's also pretty evident that Pop enjoys the recognition. Ive never seen him kill the obvious false narrative that casuals belief in. TD and Kawhi is forever going to have a minus on their resume for being great teamates. Which is pretty stupid.

At least kawhi has 3-4 years of basketball to kill that narrative but TD doesnt...even though 2000-2007 islargely TD.

Honestly- why give one about casual/vanilla fans/writers?
Trophies are the real deal, not articles and comments from the pub.
Trophies are physical evidence. Everything else is opinion, conjecture and hypotheticals that mean zip.

You guys stressing about casual fans are letting them live rent free and you become inefficient posters just like them.

[tonight...you]

Who cares about REGULAR season MVPs, all Kawhi cares about is the one awarded in June.

Curry: 0-1
Kawhi: 1-1

The LOB. Not the Final's MVP.
Ask him which one is more important yourself.

[TD 21]

Kawhi gets discredited because he plays with 3 HOFers, as if those guys are in their prime vs the tail end of their careers. Not to discredit the Big3 because having them around helped Kawhi's development on (not having a lot of pressure to perform early in his career) and off the court.


Still it'll be tough to make a case for anyone other than Curry to win the MVP this season.

They're not typical post prime players though. All three are superior play makers to him, which alleviates the exact burden most players of his magnitude have to shoulder.

Other than Pop, no one has gotten more credit for the renaissance the past five years, to the point now where some claim he's the second best player in the league. That's unprecedented praise for a perimeter player that offers little in the way of play making.

It's the big three (especially Ginobili) that don't get enough credit for their actual play, because there's still a lot of ignorant people covering the game, who still rely heavily on box score/counting stats.

That's what makes his case. Kawhi really is on an island out there on the perimeter. Sure, Green can take some pressure off him defensively, but that's about it. If Kawhi can't score, we basically have no wing scoring. Wardell can have a bad game, and Klay can still light it up for 35. Even Harrison Barnes is a threat to drop 20 quite often.

Still flawed criteria. The particular roster construction of any given candidate should be secondary. Curry's offensive impact is primarily responsible for his teammates success and would be virtually the same, no matter the team around him. Would Leonard's, if he had to shoulder the play making burden a player of his magnitude typically does?

+1

I think Kawhi is a monster, and is definitely top 3 in the MVP race...but there's no one particularly close to Curry right now. Maybe if he slows down (feel like I've been saying this since December ) it'll become more of a discussion, but right now there's no debate.

Curry has Kawhi trumped by a wide margin in practically every advanced metric out there:

RPM: Curry - 10.55, Kawhi - 8.75
PER: Curry - 31.9 (would be the highest single season PER of all-time), Kawhi - 25.7
WS/48: Curry - .332 (would be 2nd highest of all-time), Kawhi - .279
BPM: Curry - 12.5 (would be 4th highest of all-time), Kawhi - 7.9
Raw on/off: Curry - +27.0 (+20.4 with Curry on, -6.6 with him off), Kawhi - +5.2 (+15.4 with him on, +10.2 with him off)

Sure, you can point to Curry having guys like Klay and Draymond. But when you look at the numbers, everything revolves around Curry. Even when Draymond/Klay are both on the court, the Warriors fall off a cliff when Steph sits out. I'm not sure the Warriors have any particularly successful lineups that don't involve Curry.

Throw in the fact that the Warriors are on pace to break the record for most wins in a season, and the gap just gets even wider.

Kawhi is extremely important to this team, but our team doesn't revolve around him the same way the Warriors revolve around Curry. That's not even a dig at Kawhi - our team does revolve around him quite a bit. Curry is just on another level when it comes to impacting games and changing how other teams choose to defend.

The biggest difference is, Curry is primarily responsible for his teammates success offensively; Leonard isn't. Even though he's clearly the best player, the Spurs still do things in a mostly collective fashion.

Thompson and Green, are ancillary offensive players, who thrive based off of the unprecedented attention Curry draws 30 feet from the basket. Put them on any other team and they're not thought of nearly as highly.

[Kawhitstorm]

This is the dumbest thing. Regular season mvps are about 10x more important than finals mvp, unless you're a hard core Parker fan and then it's much closer.

................

[YGWHI]

It's so nice to have a Spur there again.

[BillMc]

It's so nice to have a Spur there again.

+1

[spursistan]

Chris Paul should be up there..Kawhi starting to miss many games will hurt his potential 2nd place behind Curry..

[look_at_g_shred]

Chris Paul should be up there..Kawhi starting to miss many games will hurt his potential 2nd place behind Curry..

as long as he don't miss more than 10.. I think he should be fine..

[daslicer]

Kawhi winning MVP and the spurs then possibly losing in the WCF to the Warriors would feel pretty hollow. It would be like a '95 Dream-Robinson moment all over again.

[SpursFan86]

This road trip change your mind any midnightpulp ?

[buttsR4rebounding]

This road trip change your mind any midnightpulp ?

How about Steph Curry single handlied willing gsw to the win over okc last night on a bom ankle?

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Kawhi winning MVP and the spurs then possibly losing in the WCF to the Warriors would feel pretty hollow. It would be like a '95 Dream-Robinson moment all over again.

Or how about this scenario: Curry repeats MVP, but Kawhi takes his cookie in the WCF and the Spurs kick the Dublets' asses?

[SpursFan86]

How about Steph Curry single handlied willing gsw to the win over okc last night on a bom ankle?

GS just finished a 7-game road trip as well - that's what I was referring to, not our RRT.

In those 7 games Curry averaged 36/7.5/5.5 on a 74 TS%. They went 6-1 on the trip with wins in OKC/LAC/Miami/Atlanta.

[midnightpulp]

This road trip change your mind any midnightpulp ?

You mean in favor of Kawhi?

Kawhi absent: 111 and 113 points given up to the ty Suns and Lakers.

Kawhi returns: Average opponent PPG: 88.

Now, I'm not claiming that Kawhi is a better player than Wardell, but I think he's slightly more important to the Spurs than Curry is to the Warriors.

If that's still the criteria (which I necessarily don't agree with), then Kawhi deserves the MVP. If it's best player in the league, then Curry or even James are the front-runners (Nash won 2 straight MVPs based on the former concept. Duncan or KG were still the best overall players in the league in '05 and '06).

[DrSteffo]

Homer fans are cute tbh

[SpursFan86]

You mean in favor of Kawhi?

Kawhi absent: 111 and 113 points given up to the ty Suns and Lakers.

Kawhi returns: Average opponent PPG: 88.

Now, I'm not claiming that Kawhi is a better player than Wardell, but I think he's slightly more important to the Spurs than Curry is to the Warriors.

If that's still the criteria (which I necessarily don't agree with), then Kawhi deserves the MVP. If it's best player in the league, then Curry or even James are the front-runners (Nash won 2 straight MVPs based on the former concept. Duncan or KG were still the best overall players in the league in '05 and '06).

Ehh, I view the "most important to his team" as sort of a tiebreaker if two guys are relatively even in terms of production. When you have someone like Curry who's breaking records left and right and on pace to have a top 5 season of all-time, it's just not a question.

And fwiw, I still disagree with the idea that Kawhi is more important to the Spurs than Curry is to GS. Look at it this way: you agree that the Spurs as of now are longshots to beat GS in a series, yeah? What if you took off Kawhi and Curry from each team? Would you still consider the Spurs as longshots to win?

I know on/off numbers aren't infallible, but look at Golden State's #'s with and without Curry. Even when Draymond/Klay are both playing, GS is still mediocre as long as Curry isn't out there. On this recent road trip, the Warriors had a +17 net rating with Curry on the court, and a -6 net rating with Curry not playing.