OT: Old vs. New

[Cry Havoc]

No prob. I was clicking around Audiogon for the fun of it, and found an older used Oppo for pretty cheap (plays SA-CDs, which is nice):

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/cd...igital-t3e-1l5

Seller is also in Canada.

Was unaware there were other audiophiles on Spurs talk. I'm running a pioneer elite receiver powering a couple of mirage om-12s, BIC Center (admittedly the weak point of the system).

Got a good deal on some ultrasound headphones but will be upgrading them soon... To what I'm not sure. Maybe electrostatic's.

[lefty]

Curry is better than MJ, Magic, Isiah and Hakeem combined tbh

[midnightpulp]

Was unaware there were other audiophiles on Spurs talk. I'm running a pioneer elite receiver powering a couple of mirage om-12s, BIC Center (admittedly the weak point of the system).

Got a good deal on some ultrasound headphones but will be upgrading them soon... To what I'm not sure. Maybe electrostatic's.

Nice. Mirage makes really good gear. Friend of mine found an 8" sub of theirs for like 8.00 in a Pawn Shop. He gave it to me, since he found a 10" Velodyne for 11.00 in the same shop. Very tight and fast. Upgraded recently to the Rythmik L12 (a sealed sub), since the Mirage was making port noise at the levels I like to listen to, but it's a banger in a non-boomy way.

Here's my mains (not mine personally, but the same model):



Found them at the thrift store for 20.00. Refoamed the woofers and recapped the crossovers. They image crazy good.

Receiver is a Marantz SR-6009. Previously had a Marantz 2 channel integrated, but I want to start playing around with multichannel audio. I also love the bass management receivers give you. Much easier to blend a sub with your mains.

[Cry Havoc]

Nice. Mirage makes really good gear. Friend of mine found an 8" sub of theirs for like 8.00 in a Pawn Shop. He gave it to me, since he found a 10" Velodyne for 11.00 in the same shop. Very tight and fast. Upgraded recently to the Rythmik L12 (a sealed sub), since the Mirage was making port noise at the levels I like to listen to, but it's a banger in a non-boomy way.

Here's my mains (not mine personally, but the same model):



Found them at the thrift store for 20.00. Refoamed the woofers and recapped the crossovers. They image crazy good.

Receiver is a Marantz SR-6009. Previously had a Marantz 2 channel integrated, but I want to start playing around with multichannel audio. I also love the bass management receivers give you. Much easier to blend a sub with your mains.

Love the look of those old cabinets. Those in particular look like they've seen better days, hope your cones are cleaner than that.

I picked up my Mirage's on craigslist. I almost felt dirty for the price he wanted for them, and now I can't even justify upgrading my speakers because these sound better (to me) than all but the very high end stuff you can find around. They're also omnipolar (well, bipolar really), so it makes for a super wide sweet spot for listening. Frequency response down to 32hz.

[313]

I have yet to pick up the newest gen of consoles... I hardly game anymore since finishing college. But to me, my favorite consoles as far as fun factor are the PS2 and N64. Those are consoles where I can have buddies over, plug that in, and have a great time for hours. PS3 has ridiculously fun single player content, but outside of sports games (which imo are pretty ty nowadays and have been basically the same for 6-7 years), you can't really have fun with friends over.

It's even worse with the PS4 and xone. Everything is online and besides sports games, it's rare for a game to have local co op anymore.

[midnightpulp]

Love the look of those old cabinets. Those in particular look like they've seen better days, hope your cones are cleaner than that.

I picked up my Mirage's on craigslist. I almost felt dirty for the price he wanted for them, and now I can't even justify upgrading my speakers because these sound better (to me) than all but the very high end stuff you can find around. They're also omnipolar (well, bipolar really), so it makes for a super wide sweet spot for listening. Frequency response down to 32hz.

Cones were in similar shape when I found them in the thrift. The old foam surrounds deteriorate after a 20-30 years. Luckily, it's a relatively easy and cheap job to glue new surrounds to the cones and woofer frame. As long as your voice coils are good, it'a all gravy. Not sure if your Mirages (I think the OM-12s are about 15-16 years old now?) used foam surrounds, but if they did, you might want to take a look, make sure they're still good (they likely used rubber, though).

Also agreed about the need to upgrade. My speakers are 40 years old, and that old box design is something of a relic, and of course with all the CAD and materials advantages we have today, modern speakers are definitely superior purely on paper, but they have had two channel audio pretty much figured out for a while now. Audiophiles definitely chase single percent improvements. In video game terms, they were at 4K resolution in the 60s and 70s and today, we're probably a "4.1K" (if that comparison makes any sense).

I definitely want to upgrade at some point, just to play around with new gear. But these 40 year old antiques have compared favorably to anything modern I've compared them to in the 1-2K price range.

[DMC]

I have yet to pick up the newest gen of consoles... I hardly game anymore since finishing college. But to me, my favorite consoles as far as fun factor are the PS2 and N64. Those are consoles where I can have buddies over, plug that in, and have a great time for hours. PS3 has ridiculously fun single player content, but outside of sports games (which imo are pretty ty nowadays and have been basically the same for 6-7 years), you can't really have fun with friends over.

When you're not blowing each other.

[apalisoc_9]

Never understood the facination with speakers. Seems like younger generations dont care much about it either.

[midnightpulp]

Never understood the facination with speakers. Seems like younger generations dont care much about it either.

If you just want something to make noise and play music, headphones are fine, and the higher end rigs like Ambchang is running can sound extraordinary with regard to clarity and detail.

But headphones restrict the sound stage to inside your head and listening to music through them is a 2 dimensional experience. A great speaker system in a good room can give you all the clarity and detail of a great headphone rig but actually present the music 3 dimensionally, as if the performers are in the room. And a lot of top end speaker systems can make the entire room disappear. And that's nothing to say of the much superior bass extension speakers/subs give you. Once you listen to a great speaker system, headphones sound like toys. Headphones can only really do soundstage via binaurally recorded material, and even then, the dimensionality isn't all that convincing (due to everyone's individual Head-Ear listening apparatus).

"Younger people" don't care about speakers because it's hard to set up a good rig in a small bedroom or dorm, most young people also don't know what good audio is.

[apalisoc_9]

If you just want something to make noise and play music, headphones are fine, and the higher end rigs like Ambchang is running can sound extraordinary with regard to clarity and detail.

But headphones restrict the sound stage to inside your head and listening to music through them is a 2 dimensional experience. A great speaker system in a good room can give you all the clarity and detail of a great headphone rig but actually present the music 3 dimensionally, as if the performers are in the room. And a lot of top end speaker systems can make the entire room disappear. And that's nothing to say of the much superior bass extension speakers/subs give you. Once you listen to a great speaker system, headphones sound like toys. Headphones can only really do soundstage via binaurally recorded material, and even then, the dimensionally isn't all that convincing.

"Younger people" don't care about speakers because it's hard to set up a good rig in a small bedroom or dorm, most young people also don't know what good audio is.

I don't know tbh. My older brother has some expensive speakers but I just can't bring myself to care about. I just use my TV without speakers. I have 3 expensive headphones though

I think younger people in general just stay away from TV nowadys. The only time I use my TV is when I game and watch basketball...speakers dont add much to these experience, Imo.

[midnightpulp]

If you just want something to make noise and play music, headphones are fine, and the higher end rigs like Ambchang is running can sound extraordinary with regard to clarity and detail.

But headphones restrict the sound stage to inside your head and listening to music through them is a 2 dimensional experience. A great speaker system in a good room can give you all the clarity and detail of a great headphone rig but actually present the music 3 dimensionally, as if the performers are in the room. And a lot of top end speaker systems can make the entire room disappear. And that's nothing to say of the much superior bass extension speakers/subs give you. Once you listen to a great speaker system, headphones sound like toys. Headphones can only really do soundstage via binaurally recorded material, and even then, the dimensionality isn't all that convincing (due to everyone's individual Head-Ear listening apparatus).

"Younger people" don't care about speakers because it's hard to set up a good rig in a small bedroom or dorm, most young people also don't know what good audio is.

And on this point, it really isn't anymore. You can buy some JBL LSR305s (a bookshelf sized powered monitor that is state-of-the-art accurate that price point) for about 350.00, set up them near field, apply DSP correction to account for room acoustics, and you have a setup that's better than pretty much every headphone rig in existence.

[midnightpulp]

I don't know tbh. My older brother has some expensive speakers but I just can't bring myself to care about. I just use my TV without speakers. I have 3 expensive headphones though

I think younger people in general just stay away from TV nowadys. The only time I use my TV is when I game and watch basketball...speakers dont add much to these experience, Imo.

Headphones can't do what speakers do without an external DSP processor like the Smyth Realiser (which makes headphones sound like speakers but without the tactile interaction [bass hitting your body]).

It's cool if you prefer the intimacy and portability of headphones, but in terms of what presents 99.9% of recorded audio more realistically (aside from binaural, but speakers can playback binaural much more realistically than headphones. Unfortunately the DSP processor you need to do that is 56 thousand dollars right now), there's no comparison.

You're probably not into audio, but go to any audiophile board, and the majority of headphone users use them out of need (they live in a small apartment, wife doesn't like big speakers, etc), and would prefer a speaker rig if given a choice.

[ambchang]

Even though my headphone rig is about one of the top (unless I go Orpheus or sr009 with kgsshv, which are rigs I can't afford), I know that they are, at best, comparable to entry level speaker gears.

My problem comes from time where I'm unlikely to have the time to dedicate myself to listen to the rig enough to justify having to plunk down $5k on it.

[Cry Havoc]

Even though my headphone rig is about one of the top (unless I go Orpheus or sr009 with kgsshv, which are rigs I can't afford), I know that they are, at best, comparable to entry level speaker gears.

My problem comes from time where I'm unlikely to have the time to dedicate myself to listen to the rig enough to justify having to plunk down $5k on it.

what headphones are you rocking?

[Thread]

what headphones are you rocking?

The insides of his mother's knocked knees.

[ambchang]

what headphones are you rocking?

Beats ....

Seriously, ortho rig is beta 22 amp with Hifiman he500 (tried he1000 and he560, along with ether, audeze and felt a modded he560 is the best)

Electrostatic rig is stax sr007 MKI (omega) with KGSS amp

Both fed by moon audio 300d DAC.

Also have a portable rig, but thinking of selling it as I don't travel much anymore.

[midnightpulp]

Even though my headphone rig is about one of the top (unless I go Orpheus or sr009 with kgsshv, which are rigs I can't afford), I know that they are, at best, comparable to entry level speaker gears.

My problem comes from time where I'm unlikely to have the time to dedicate myself to listen to the rig enough to justify having to plunk down $5k on it.

It's all what type of presentation you prefer. If you love intimacy and the in your head stage of headphones, no speakers are going to do that. Me, I am a soundstage and love for music to fill the room in real 3D space.

If you don't want to spend 5K, you can get something that will get you 98% of the 5K rig you were planning on for about a grand to 1500. Like I said, 2 channel audio is pretty mature tech, and we've had it relatively figured out for a while (room correction is pretty much the last frontier). The "leaps" between audio generations are single percent improvements, if that.

Harman Kardon, who owns Infinity, JBL, and Revel are doing amazing and groundbreaking things with R&D. They stringently double blind test Harman products against the compe ion, and if a Harman product fails, it's back to the drawing board for tweaks.

These 300.00 per pair Infinitys beat a pair of 4K Martin Logan electrostats in a blind test (they also beat a pair of 600.00 Polks and 1K Klipsch).

http://www.thebestbestsellers.com/pr...er-black-each/

Pick up this Marantz for 500.00 (I bought mine from the same site. All of their components are factory refurbed and have a one year warranty).

I was once a purist on amplification, thinking the less features and electronics in an amp, the "cleaner" the signal, but there's really no difference. Modern receivers from a great company like Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha are all well engineered (and if you want cleaner, you can always add a power amp). And with modern receivers, you get bass management and room correction.

I do recommend a sub. The 500.00 models from Rythmik, HSU, and SVS can't be beat at that price point.

Place everything correctly in the room, and you're pretty much there for about 1500.00.



http://www.accessories4less.com/make...airplay/1.html

[spurraider21]

"Younger people" don't care about speakers because it's hard to set up a good rig in a small bedroom or dorm, most young people also don't know what good audio is.

young people don't care about speakers because modern music doesn't have layering that benefits from a 3 dimensional sound system. the bass drowns out anything resembling music anyway. that's why beats are popular. anything that can amplify the bass is sufficient for modern music

[midnightpulp]

young people don't care about speakers because modern music doesn't have layering that benefits from a 3 dimensional sound system. the bass drowns out anything resembling music anyway. that's why beats are popular. anything that can amplify the bass is sufficient for modern music

That's a good point, and the frustrating thing is that there are layers to modern music (even radio pop), but the in' loudness war mastering kills all the dynamics.

Holy , this is bad:



I also won't put this on Millennials. It was my gen that forced these practices, with our walkmans and obnoxious car stereos. Hi-Fi home stereo as a cultural trend died in the 70's (although, tech wise, we're better than ever in home audio).

[spurraider21]

That's a good point, and the frustrating thing is that there are layers to modern music (even radio pop), but the in' loudness war mastering kills all the dynamics.

Holy , this is bad:



I also won't put this on Millennials. It was my gen that forced these practices, with our walkmans and obnoxious car stereos. Hi-Fi home stereo as a cultural trend died in the 70's (although, tech wise, we're better than ever in home audio).

that meter...

but i generally disagree about layering in modern music. certainly there are exceptions, but the general trend is just uniform noise. i'm much more of a rock/metal guy than a hip hop guy, and when i go to clubs and see bands perform nowadays, you can't listen for the rhythm/lead/bass separately anymore. they all just play the same thing at the same time loudly. compare that to the 60's, 70's and even 80's and it's night and day.

the main exceptions in the rock scene are bands that are quite literally throwbacks... muse (before 2nd law album), arctic monkeys, wolfmother (only their debut album). those guys are solid but are basically mimics of older generation bands

[midnightpulp]

that meter...

but i generally disagree about layering in modern music. certainly there are exceptions, but the general trend is just uniform noise. i'm much more of a rock/metal guy than a hip hop guy, and when i go to clubs and see bands perform nowadays, you can't listen for the rhythm/lead/bass separately anymore. they all just play the same thing at the same time loudly. compare that to the 60's, 70's and even 80's and it's night and day.

the main exceptions in the rock scene are bands that are quite literally throwbacks... muse (before 2nd law album), arctic monkeys, wolfmother (only their debut album). those guys are solid but are basically mimics of older generation bands

Sadly, a lot of those bands (Monkeys, Arcade Fire, and older bands like Depeche Mode, The Cure and such) have had the dynamics in their music squashed. Check out the dynamic range of their albums (also see how the vinyl version has more dynamics):

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/li...Monkeys&album=

I have some really badly mastered albums (Californication by the Chili Peppers and Dig Your Own Hole by the Chemical Brothers) that actually send my receiver into protection mode

[ambchang]

It's all what type of presentation you prefer. If you love intimacy and the in your head stage of headphones, no speakers are going to do that. Me, I am a soundstage and love for music to fill the room in real 3D space.

If you don't want to spend 5K, you can get something that will get you 98% of the 5K rig you were planning on for about a grand to 1500. Like I said, 2 channel audio is pretty mature tech, and we've had it relatively figured out for a while (room correction is pretty much the last frontier). The "leaps" between audio generations are single percent improvements, if that.

Harman Kardon, who owns Infinity, JBL, and Revel are doing amazing and groundbreaking things with R&D. They stringently double blind test Harman products against the compe ion, and if a Harman product fails, it's back to the drawing board for tweaks.

These 300.00 per pair Infinitys beat a pair of 4K Martin Logan electrostats in a blind test (they also beat a pair of 600.00 Polks and 1K Klipsch).

http://www.thebestbestsellers.com/pr...er-black-each/

Pick up this Marantz for 500.00 (I bought mine from the same site. All of their components are factory refurbed and have a one year warranty).

I was once a purist on amplification, thinking the less features and electronics in an amp, the "cleaner" the signal, but there's really no difference. Modern receivers from a great company like Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha are all well engineered (and if you want cleaner, you can always add a power amp). And with modern receivers, you get bass management and room correction.

I do recommend a sub. The 500.00 models from Rythmik, HSU, and SVS can't be beat at that price point.

Place everything correctly in the room, and you're pretty much there for about 1500.00.



http://www.accessories4less.com/make...airplay/1.html

I am kind of greedy that way. I want to get a set and have it set, where I won't have any itch to upgrade later on.
I can probably get about $4K selling all my headphone stuff to invest in a speaker rig, but then I want to keep the headphone rigs because they sound so good.