The Psychological Destruction of Steph Curry

[elbamba]

Bowen never had much luck with PGs but at least Curry woulda have appropriate fear of landing on Bowen's foot.

Bowen had a great psychological edge against jump shooting

This is just wrong. Bowen was great against Steve Nash, Paul, Williams, and the other PGs who were considered the best 8-10 years ago.

[dabom]

Kawhi defends all PGs all SGs all SFs and all small ball 4s.

Are ya ing re ed?

And I've already said many times it's better when Kawhi defends the perimeter not guarding Steph. He gets those steals off passes, deflections, rebounds, and can help defense better. When he is the primary defender he is pulled away from all that action and are left with not great area defenders.

[YGWHI]

Two completely different kinds of defenders. Bowen did not steal and block shots. He contested everything and made the opposing best player's life with his speed and quick hands. Kawhi does not have the speed Bowen had to play point guards, which is why Pop will usually run Green and Parker at point guards. Kawhi is stronger and has a longer reach which allows him to defend more versitile players. His offense is also counted on too much to allow him to spend the entire game on the oppoisng team's best player.

Kawhi was the guy on Westbrook in the last game against OKC, and it was the adjustment that Pop did in the last two games of 2014 WCF. IIRC Russ only scored two points in the paint in game 5 because Kawhi didn't allow him to penetrate easily like in the previous games...

Also, Paul was guarded by Kawhi in the 2nd half of the last game against Clips and scored only 4 points after made 18 in the first half over Parker.

I wouldn't say Kawhi can't defend PGs, in fact he had a great game against Curry last season too, but I rather to have him on Klay or Green, because he neutralized Green's playmaker skills last game, also, it has alowed Kawhi to play his best off ball D against GSW.

[elbamba]

Kawhi was the guy on Westbrook in the last game against OKC, and it was the adjustment that Pop did in the last two games of 2014 WCF. IIRC Russ only scored two points in the paint in game 5 because Kawhi didn't allow him to penetrate easily like in the previous games...

Also, Paul was guarded by Kawhi in the 2nd half of the last game against Clips and scored only 4 points after made 18 in the first half over Parker.

I wouldn't say Kawhi can't defend PGs, in fact he had a great game against Curry last season too, but I rather to have him on Klay or Green, because he neutralized Green's playmaker skills last game, also, it has alowed Kawhi to play his best off ball D against GSW.

I am not saying he can't defend PGs. Kawhi is the best defensive player in the league in my opinion and can defend 1 - 4 which Bowen could not. But I think Bowen was better at guarding point guards. Kawhi is a natural to defend someone like Westbrook though.

[KL2]

Things are going to change when they get their bigs back, Ezeli/Bogut set really hard (illegal) screens, takes to long to get around them it buys Curry that extra split second to get his shot off. The bigs will slow down their pace, but will really benefit Curry.

[TrainOfThought5]

I don't think Curry really wants to drive into the paint. He's not someone who plays off of contact. And he's always worried about his ankles.

This. Curry isnt built for 10 hard drives a game. Hes not built like Lebron or even Westbrook. If he goes up, hes gotta be worried about coming back down. And ROFLMAO Green landing on top of him during that second block.

[DarrinS]

lol, psychological destruction

Spurs fans overreact to wins and losses, tbh

[ElNono]

these kind of threads...

[HarlemHeat37]

This is just wrong. Bowen was great against Steve Nash, Paul, Williams, and the other PGs who were considered the best 8-10 years ago.

Bowen routinely got destroyed by Chris Paul, tbh..Nash never had any problems against him, either..

The Spurs had much more success in the 2008 playoffs when they took Bruce off Paul and put him on Stojakovic instead IIRC..same with putting him on Marion in some of those Suns' series IIRC..

The number of dynamic PGs during that era was not very high..

[sprrs]

I'm tired of people blaming Curry's poor shooting night on the back to back.

Opp GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT%
10/31 @NOP W (+14) 1 35:38 17 27 .630 8 14 .571 11 11 1.000
11/12 @MIN W (+13) 1 37:42 15 25 .600 8 13 .615 8 8 1.000
11/20 CHI W (+12) 1 36:05 9 20 .450 3 11 .273 6 6 1.000
11/28 SAC W (+19) 1 29:48 4 7 .571 3 6 .500 8 8 1.000
12/6 @BRK W (+16) 1 32:14 11 17 .647 5 9 .556 1 4 .250
12/12 @MIL L (-13) 1 35:14 10 22 .455 2 9 .222 6 7 .857
1/5 @LAL W (+21) 1 26:08 6 13 .462 4 8 .500 1 1 1.000
1/9 SAC W (+12) 1 37:54 12 21 .571 8 14 .571 6 7 .857
1/14 LAL W (+18) 1 29:31 9 18 .500 8 16 .500 0 0
1/31 @NYK W (+21) 1 31:59 5 17 .294 3 11 .273 0 0
2/10 @PHO W (+8) 1 30:06 9 17 .529 5 10 .500 3 4 .750
2/20 @LAC W (+3) 1 35:30 5 15 .333 3 8 .375 10 12 .833
2/27 @ORL W (+16) 1 34:02 20 27 .741 10 15 .667 1 1 1.000
3/7 ORL W (+6) 1 37:20 14 24 .583 7 13 .538 6 6 1.000
3/12 PHO W (+7) 1 34:59 12 24 .500 7 16 .438 4 4 1.000
3/19 SAS L (-8) 1 37:36 4 18 .222 1 12 .083 5 5 1.000

On the second night of back-to-backs this season, Curry is shooting 46% from three. In fact, of all 66 of his games this season, he's shot sub .400 on 21 of those. How many of those 21 games were on the second night of a back to back? Counting last Saturday, only five.

It's also worth mentioning that including this past Saturday's game, only two of their 7 losses have come on the second night of a back to back. How about we start giving a little more credit to the Spurs defense?

[EVAY]

?? The Spurs came back ready to win Game 7, and had their chances. Wade hit long jumpers he usually doesn't, Battier was hot, and James was hitting the three.

i'll agree to disagree with you on this. I truly believed during that entire game that we were not emotionally ready to win that game. They were high on the energy of the comeback and we didn't match it. Our confidence was broken, imo.

[baseline bum]

i'll agree to disagree with you on this. I truly believed during that entire game that we were not emotionally ready to win that game. They were high on the energy of the comeback and we didn't match it. Our confidence was broken, imo.

Kawhi looked pretty confident hitting that three to cut it to two with about a minute left even though his missed FT cost the team the le two nights before. You're literally the only person I have ever heard say the Spurs didn't look ready for Game 7. They didn't look broken until Tim missed that layup and LeBron drained that jumper to put Miami up 4 with about 20 seconds left. Then it fell apart, with Manu sealing it by throwing a re ed pass to LeBron in mid-air after the timeout.

[ElNono]

Kawhi looked pretty confident hitting that three to cut it to two with about a minute left even though his missed FT cost the team the le two nights before. You're literally the only person I have ever heard say the Spurs didn't look ready for Game 7. They didn't look broken until Tim missed that layup and LeBron drained that jumper to put Miami up 4 with about 20 seconds left. Then it fell apart, with Manu sealing it by throwing a re ed pass to LeBron in mid-air after the timeout.

Yup, Tim was a monster in the 1st half, and even Manu was pretty great throughout except at the very tail end...

[baseline bum]

Yup, Tim was a monster in the 1st half, and even Manu was pretty great throughout except at the very tail end...

I literally expected the Spurs to lose Game 7 by 20, and I think most everyone else did too. When teams lose games like 6 they can almost never put it back together facing elimination. Look at the defending 3x champion Lakers and how crushed they were when Horry's game winner rimmed out in Game 5. Spurs walked into Staples and took them by 28 two nights later. And yet the Spurs were a Leonard three or a Duncan layup from probably winning that game. They just got beat by one of the greatest performances LeBron had ever had, and Wade dialed in too. Wade's jumper was wet as that night, LeBron played the game of his life, and yet the Spurs had their chances to win that game. No way a shook team doesn't lose to them by less than 20, Miami was razor sharp outside of Bosh in Game 7 and that's why they were the champions.

[EVAY]

Kawhi looked pretty confident hitting that three to cut it to two with about a minute left even though his missed FT cost the team the le two nights before. You're literally the only person I have ever heard say the Spurs didn't look ready for Game 7. They didn't look broken until Tim missed that layup and LeBron drained that jumper to put Miami up 4 with about 20 seconds left. Then it fell apart, with Manu sealing it by throwing a re ed pass to LeBron in mid-air after the timeout.

To me, it was/is a characteristic of the team when they have had a bad setback. The team had a game to potentially come back after Derek Fisher's 3 in the Laker's series but couldn't pull it off. I just think that that kind of loss (the last 30 seconds of the prior game - Miami or the Laker series) had an enormous negative confidence effect for the Spurs and an enormous positive confidence effect for the Heat. We all say that the championship was lost in that last 30 seconds, and that is why we say it, in my mind. Yes, not only did Kawhi miss the free throw (that's not really all that unusual for Spurs teams,tbh), not only did Tim miss point- blank bunnies at the end (which was VERY unusual at that time and had him slamming his hand on the floor afterwards), and not only was Manu throwing the ball around (he did it all game in that last game), but Wade had the confidence that he was going to make those shots. They believed that they could close it out and we believed that we could lose it at the end.

Then exactly that happened. Psychology is an important thing, imo.

But all of this has nothing to do with Curry's shooting in the last game. Yes, it was sort of a perfect storm of him being tired and thus just a split second slower than normal and our defense as good (and maybe better) than it has ever been, but I don't think it will effect Curry in the future because he has that shooter's mentality. If he continued to miss over the next couple of weeks he might wonder about a slump, but he is unlikely to miss that many again this year, including against us. And this is what the thread was about.

I may be quite wrong about the psychology of the team after heart-breaking losses (which is the exact terminology that Pop used after the Fisher shot in the Laker series), but that's how I see it.

[baseline bum]

Even in defeat I was really ing proud of the Spurs and their Game 7 performance in 2013. I imagine it's how Pistons fans felt in 1988, crushed to lose the le after being so close in both Games 6 and 7, but knowing their team was pretty amazing.

[EVAY]

I am always proud of the team...have never participated in a player or team hate thread. I just felt so badly for them, and the win in 2014 was the most satisfying of all the les, imo. I was so unbelievably happy for them. They stayed focused ALL YEAR and just would NOT be denied. I hope we win this year for Tim and Manu, but nothing will ever match the satisfaction of the 2014 series. Movie quality experience. Still expect somebody to make that into a movie.

[baseline bum]

To me, it was/is a characteristic of the team when they have had a bad setback. The team had a game to potentially come back after Derek Fisher's 3 in the Laker's series but couldn't pull it off. I just think that that kind of loss (the last 30 seconds of the prior game - Miami or the Laker series) had an enormous negative confidence effect for the Spurs and an enormous positive confidence effect for the Heat. We all say that the championship was lost in that last 30 seconds, and that is why we say it, in my mind. Yes, not only did Kawhi miss the free throw (that's not really all that unusual for Spurs teams,tbh), not only did Tim miss point- blank bunnies at the end (which was VERY unusual at that time and had him slamming his hand on the floor afterwards), and not only was Manu throwing the ball around (he did it all game in that last game), but Wade had the confidence that he was going to make those shots. They believed that they could close it out and we believed that we could lose it at the end.

Then exactly that happened. Psychology is an important thing, imo.

I don't buy that at all with the 2013 team. Yes, the 2004 team was absolutely crushed by Fisher's shot, and at no point did they look like they could compete with the Lakers in Game 6 of that series. Which is what made the 2013 team special to me, they weren't crushed by a loss way worse than the 2004 Spurs suffered. People say the Spurs lost the le in that 28 seconds because they were big underdogs to a historically great 66 win Heat team (don't forget they won 29 straight games that year), and they almost stole a le by forcing LeBron into two really bad turnovers back to back. They almost stole a le with their best player on one leg. I can't believe you're calling that team soft.

[EVAY]

I don't buy that at all with the 2013 team. Yes, the 2004 team was absolutely crushed by Fisher's shot, and at no point did they look like they could compete with the Lakers in Game 6 of that series. Which is what made the 2013 team special to me, they weren't crushed by a loss way worse than the 2004 Spurs suffered. People say the Spurs lost the le in that 28 seconds because they were big underdogs to a historically great 66 win Heat team (don't forget they won 29 straight games that year), and they almost stole a le by forcing LeBron into two really bad turnovers back to back. They almost stole a le with their best player on one leg. I can't believe you're calling that team soft.

Wow...I don't believe I'm calling the team soft. I'm calling them subject to the laws of psychology. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I agreed to disagree with you and gave you my reasons. You are interpreting my reasons as being me accusing the team of something, when I believe I am only acknowledging the impact of psychology on every team, including the Spurs.

I even said in my post that I could be wrong.

You don't have to buy any goddam thing. Just disagree and leave it at that, huh? No attribution necessary.

[baseline bum]

Wow...I don't believe I'm calling the team soft. I'm calling them subject to the laws of psychology. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I agreed to disagree with you and gave you my reasons. You are interpreting my reasons as being me accusing the team of something, when I believe I am only acknowledging the impact of psychology on every team, including the Spurs.

I even said in my post that I could be wrong.

You don't have to buy any goddam thing. Just disagree and leave it at that, huh? No attribution necessary.

It sounds like you're calling them soft, especially making a comparison with the 2004 team that was unquestionably soft. I wish you could point to parts of the game the Spurs didn't look emotionally ready to win, because I can't think of any until that timeout right before Manu threw the ball away in midair down 4 with game basically over. Duncan missing the chippie wasn't one of those, he has missed a lot of shots like that being so long out of his physical prime and playing on one leg for years. The Spurs were right there the entire time and came up a little short to a better and healthier team playing in their own building.

[EVAY]

It sounds like you're calling them soft, especially making a comparison with the 2004 team that was unquestionably soft. I wish you could point to parts of the game the Spurs didn't look emotionally ready to win, because I can't think of any until Manu threw the ball away in midair down 4. Duncan missing the chippie wasn't one of those, he has missed a lot of shots like that being so long out of his physical prime and playing on one leg for years. The Spurs were right there the entire time and came up a little short to a better and healthier team playing in their own building.

I don't intend to pursue this ad infinitum. I gave you reasons and you want more or don't accept what I gave you. That is not my problem, it is yours. YOU call the 2004 team soft, which I didn't then and don't now (I don't believe a 'soft' team gets as far as the 2004 team did or the 2013 team did). You attribute motivation to me that is unsustainable from the evidence. I don't even remember the details of the 2013 game 7 except what I gave you. I have a doctoral degree in social psychology and gave you what I thought happened, respectfully to you and to the team. You agree with what I said about Tim (except you claim he did it frequently, which I never did); you yourself brought up the Manu thing and the Kawhi free throw miss.

Besides the 2004 team (which I still don't call soft), I remember the team unable to sustain the OT against Dallas after the Manu foul on Dirk at the end of regulation that tied it. I didn't call them soft then, either. I just think it is hard for them to come back from those situations. I'm even on record in this forum as defending Manu after that game because if he hadn't had the guts to take that three just before the Nowitzki layup with the foul we wouldn't have even had a chance. I was at that game and watched Pop's reaction. It was awful.

One of the best things about Pop as a coach and a man is his recognition that the game is only a game; that recognition is honestly superb. One of the other things it is is mindful that young men have trouble coming back from heartbreaking moments. Sometimes, that means they don't quite get back. Unfortunately, some fans (apparently like you) call them 'soft' if that happens. I don't and never have. However, if you don't attribute that to them in some other situation and someone else recognizes similarities, you assume that the other person is being as disrespectful as you were. It is called attribution.

I'm kinda getting the impression you just want to argue for the sake of it. Me, I don't and I'm done.

[baseline bum]

Besides the 2004 team (which I still don't call soft), I remember the team unable to sustain the OT against Dallas after the Manu foul on Dirk at the end of regulation that tied it.

Duncan was cramping badly in OT, which is why he was getting killed by Diop.

[GSH]

I'd love to see the Warriors lose to Minnesota tonight, just to see how Curry and the rest deal with the psychological pressure. They've had a historic season, and the Spurs have been right up on their ass the whole time.

[ezau]

Even in defeat I was really ing proud of the Spurs and their Game 7 performance in 2013. I imagine it's how Pistons fans felt in 1988, crushed to lose the le after being so close in both Games 6 and 7, but knowing their team was pretty amazing.

Agreed. I felt very bad for the entire team for being so close to winning it all that year, but I felt very proud to see everyone compete so well.