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It told Chapman to kill him.
It told Chapman to kill him.
Well then that seems more like a mental health issue than anything else.
Nazism and religious fundamentalism seem like mental health issues to me.
Muslims terrorism at least as we know it now existed at least 20 years before the Iraq War & about a decade before the Gulf War. But it's been going on way before that, in Palestine before it was Israel and basically just land controlled by the British Empire in response to (if we broaden the definition of terrorism) Zionist terrorism, which in turn was a response to (again if we broaden the definition) European Anti-Semitism/terrorism (ie Jewish pograms, which led to Jewish diasporas into the region), which was a response to something else, which itself was a response to something else etc.
My point being that, you sound like a damn simpleton fool for concluding that the whole mess of a situation we have in the Middle-East is the result of two groups. It's a history that dates back to over a century ago, truly, & includes numerous aggressors & victims, with all parties involved playing both parts at one time or another. And I've only touched on the tip of the iceberg.
But what we can learn from this--as opposed to trying to justify who the victims & and aggressors may be by arbitrarily using a historical timeline that only confirms your biasis for who is/was what--is that while mistakes of the past can't be undone, they can be mitigated for the future by analyzing what their root causes were/are. What were they? A tail of ego, prejudice & unbridled hate/anger. None of that solves anything. And in light of what happened today let's choose not let those things dig us into a deeper situation by submitting to them. Terrorism is a two-way street. Don't let the fact that both sides are fighting with different equipment blind you to that fact. It's people not wanting to admit it that makes a by all accounts solvable problem unsolvable.
they're probably waffling on what to do next.
They are to some degree.
However, with regard to religious extremism, there’s a difference between doing what a deeply held religious text says to do and having a delusion about the Catcher in the Rye telling you to kill John Lennon.
Last edited by DMX7; 03-22-2016 at 04:00 PM.
This.Who listens to this and is like, "yeah, he's right!"? Seriously. This is the stupidest, laziest, and most nonsensical way of thinking. Like the entire government comes to a halt when the President is 90 miles offshore.
Unreal this re ed twister has as many votes as he does.
Cruz thinks Obama is totally incompetent and that perhaps he doesn't even like America, so why is he so concerned about Obama being here?
lol
the book talked?
lol
disingenuous as always
"you sound like a damn simpleton fool for concluding that the whole mess of a situation we have in the Middle-East is ..."
... directly caused by Repugs taking down Saddam, invading Iraq on behalf of US/UK BigOil. What we have now is so much uglier, more painful, dangerous, and mortal than what we had before March 2003.
"result of two groups." which two groups are these?
Absolutely nothing like we have now has been present in the Middle East for many decades. Sporadic terrorism for many decades is NOTHING compared to the Repug catastrophe now.
Anytime bad things happen some people some where are stupid enough to celebrate it.
Last edited by xeromass; 03-22-2016 at 05:38 PM.
I won't argue it hasn't been made worse by that. But I think had we not invaded Iraq we still would be dealing with like this. Various govts. in the ME have crumbled w/o our help. They'd (terrorists) have operated in those regions. These "sporadic" groups you mentioned got stronger & coelesed as the Internet became more accessible. We're not in Iraq any longer, yet they're still fighting. If it was ALL because of Iraq, we'd have struck a peace deal by now.
It starts with Israel. The West supports Israel. It starts with our Alliance with Saudi Arabia. The West supports SA, and as a by product funds Sunni Extremism, which SA (as well as the other Persisn Gulf countries which are Sunni) benefit from in their power struggle with the Shiite countries (like Iran), who themselves teach & spread their own brand of extremism/hate and support terrorist groups.
The mess in the ME right now was completely unavoidable IMO. The extremism & tension was brewing (albeit more under the surface) long before Iraq, and its origins go way back to just after World War 1, when Great Britain took control of Palestine. There were plenty of attacks then, and also after that point up and up until the present. s been in motion now since forever and the top would've came off had we twisted it off or ourselves or not.
Last edited by mingus; 03-22-2016 at 06:53 PM.
Im not celebrating this; but why the surprise? europeans and americans expect middle easterners to just take it up the ass without fighting back? Oh what am I saying, they have oil we depend on, back to blaming them for us not being able to prop a decent oligarch for nearly a century.
Bfn S. How do you think that totalitarian state came to be? You don't get one of the most efficient, effective killing machines the world has ever seen without cooperation.
After the war
the Germans claim they tried to stop the Nazis, total BS.
Read your history. Germany just got screwed after WW1. Germany was in taters and Hitler said all the right things at the right time. THE GERMAN PEOPLE WENT ALONG FOR THE RIDE IN THE MAJORITY.
I suggest you read The Rise And Fall of The Third Reich.
And your last paragraph was exactly my point. Don't compare these two separate phenomena. Don't blindly mix this like you are attempting to do.
Again, the vast majority of Germans did not want the holocaust and the wars and all that . The state came to be because they had a fascist who purged/killed/etc. anyone who dissented. Sure, there were plenty of Nazis and Nazi leaders who genuinely embraced it but that's sharply different from overgeneralizing and saying it represented the viewpoint of nearly all 70M Germans.
The general german population was terrified of Hitler's wars because of what happened in WWI. And millions of Germans didn't even know about the Holocaust. This was stuff that was forced on them. The people who actually executed it and thought it was great did not amount to the vast majority of the 70M Germans.
Last edited by DMX7; 03-23-2016 at 12:08 AM.
What?
You now turn it to the Holocaust?
Hitler denied it emphatically to the German people. When the allies claimed it was going on anyways. Now he did pin much of Germany's woes on Jews but damn...
When the tide turned mid to late 1930s, and Hitler was fully in control, and After the Germans gained land back from WW1, they were energized and staunchly behind him. They believed the lies. Again, you don't get this kind of powerhouse without allegiance to a cause. This was WW2, not terrorist cells being activated. This kind of endeavor takes enormous sacrifice and the Germans were willing. This is not to say the Germans were especially evil people, it's a lesson that this kind of brainwashing fervor can occur anywhere given the proper conditions and Germany was ripe for a cause.
You really need to read the book I mentioned from someone inside Nazi Germany.
Bottom line:
Dont equate the fact that the majority of Muslims are not behind ISIS by claiming the Germans did not like Hitler and the Nazis, especially when they were regaining old battles lost in WW1 via the Blitzkreig.
Last edited by pgardn; 03-23-2016 at 12:29 AM.
The holocaust is closely associated with the Nazis and you said the Nazis represented the vast majority of Germans. That's not hard to understand.
Bottom line is I didn't equate what you just said.
The two very different conflicts were mentioned as similar which is what I responded to. Page back.
And the German people were genuinely behind Hitler and the Nazis, Especially during the times I mentioned. Again, this is an entire Nation that conquered mainland Europe.
The military conquered mainland Europe (excluding Switzerland and other states) and it didn't consist of the vast majority of Germans nor do I believe that's really what they ever wanted. Many of Hitler's own generals thought he was a lunatic hence the assassination attempts.
Last edited by DMX7; 03-23-2016 at 01:06 AM.
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