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...and you were doing so well
Too lazy to bring up the stats
5 and 5
Kobe was the clear 2nd option on the first 3 championships. Shaq was absolutely the man. Kobe had his moments, but was the Beta. Shaq was the one putting up monster 30/15 type numbers in the Finals.
As for 2009 and 2010, Kobe got a gift from Jerry West. In hindsight, yes... Marc Gasol did turn into a vital piece for the Grizzlies and both parties were happy. But at the time, the Lakers virtually gave up no talent whatsoever for a top 15 player and one of the best bigs in the game.
This allowed them to have the unstoppable length and size of the front court of Odom/Bynum/Gasol which was the main reason for that teams dominant run from 2008-2011.
Kobe was also the beneficiary of the Garnett injury paving the way for them to face Dwight made Howard and Hedo Turkoglu in the 2009 Finals.
In 2010, the length of the front court and the addition of Ron Artest, who when locked in mentally was indeed one of the elite defenders of the game, allowed them to eeek out a victory against a 50-32 Celtics team. This was a very weak period in the NBA anyway... and Kobe's Finals numbers were anything but lofty. Kobe's narcissistic personality is probably why he was unable to age gracefully and will retire in a humiliated fashion. His legacy has been propped up and overhyped by the media.
The Celtics from 2008-2012 were very strong, although after 2008, they showed a tendency to choke under pressure (see Game 6/7 2012 ECF, Game 7 2010 NBA Finals, Game 6/7 2009 ECSF)
Enter Duncan.
The 1998-1999 Spurs was only Duncan's 2nd year, and he flat out dominated the league and was already one of the best players in the game.
It is true he was surrounded with a great coach and David Robinson/Bruce Bowen
In 2003 he carried Parker/Ginobili who were not established at the time and an aging D Rob (but he did have Bowen) to the championship. Although the Nets were not too strong, he had a dominant Finals and nearly had a quadruple double.
In 2004 it was a pretty fluky Horry shot that may have prevented this team from repeating a championship.
And yet they showed resilience in 2005 and beat a very tough and gritty Pistons team. Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace were in their primes, and that was a suffocating defense.
In 2006 if not for the Manu foul and Diop playing out of his mind, I believe the Spurs would've won the championship again.
And yet they resiliently came back in 2007. First off, they were better than the Suns and the suspensions had nothing to do with any of that. The Jazz/Cavs were weak opponents, but they cannot help that their compe ion was weak.
From 2008-2010 it looked as if the Spurs were declining and aging, but they revamped and reloaded and Duncan's graceful aging allowed for him to still be a vital cog in the team. Unlike Kobe who has been absolutely worthless since 2011.
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Yet one more fluke was the 2013 Finals
And yet just like the 2004 "fluke" and 2006 "fluke", the Spurs answered the fluke by winning yet another championship.
This year Duncan may only be the 4th best player on the team, but the fact that he's still a contributor to a historically great team while creeping up on 40 is mind boggling.
Absolutely you should factor the twilight years of a player in their legacy status... Kobe is having one of the worst seasons of all time, Duncan is still contributing to a championship caliber team.
As for the metrics and PER and analytics, they also favor Duncan.
Kobe has ruined a generation of basketball players who idealize his inefficient hero ball style. If more players followed Duncan's style, basketball would be a more beautiful game at the lower levels.
...and you were doing so well
Also, his contract is now weighing down the team as he puts up 17 points on 17 shots on 36% from the field and takes 7 3 -PT attempts a game on 28%
according to WAGES OF WINS, in order to be a successful NBA franchise, you have to get bang for your buck.
The Lakers are paying $25 million to a player thats playing at below MLE level... this is the hallmark of inefficient spending which leads to a 15 win season.
That was one of the most bizarre things I've seen in sports, up there with the Tyree catch and "6" and the rigged 2006 Finals.
But, they probably didn't deserve to win that year as it took a fluky Duncan shot before the Horry shot in order for it to get to that point.
2004 Lakers show that no team with a pedophile on the squad will ever win a championship.Karl
Strike 2That was one of the most bizarre things I've seen in sports, up there with the Tyree catch and "6" and the rigged 2006 Finals.
But, they probably didn't deserve to win that year as it took a fluky Duncan shot before the Horry shot in order for it to get to that point.
2004 Lakers show that no team with a pedophile on the squad will ever win a championship.
Not trying to troll Lakers fans... but the Lakers have such a rich history that Kobe probably isn't even a top 3 Laker of all time.
He's the best guard since MJ, but Curry is on a trajectory to have a better career and legacy IMO.
I don't disagree with (all) that...just ing with you since you're mixing up the details
I only started this thread to see how long it would take before someone makes a sand ****** joke, I actually don't care about Kobe or Duncan.
Just happy for my boy Dirk in 2011....
Kobe was actually the third most important Laker after Shaq and Stern
Yea, the KG injury gave Kobe 2 more rings than he would have gotten.
That rent free thingy.
,,,on a Spurs forum,,,rent free thingy,,,,
The 2009 Lakers were a very strong team though, I'll give them that... but their main attribute was the dominant length of the entire team and especially the front court.
With Bryant, Ariza, Odom, Bynum, Gasol... the league was just not equipped for their length and size that year. They did go 65-17 with a +7.8 margin of victory
however... that Celtics team was like 41-9 when KG got hurt... it would've been an epic Finals rematch.
Fun fact: Robert Horry was a Spur in 2004.
It's funny because with a minute left in Game 5 Horry missed a ing wide open three from the same spot he buried Webber. It was like two or three feet right, it went right off the backboard, and would have given the Spurs a four point lead and probably buried the Lakers just like the one he missed in Game 5 the previous year would have probably knocked the Spurs out.
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Only pussies & assholes play the injury card.
what's the name of the site again?
Such cruel irony. Am i the only one who still finds 04 more painful than 13?
That they were selling your thingy.
They were selling your
Personally, I think both players are over-rated. I've seen Kobe miss too many shots, and I've seen Timmy disappear in too many playoff games to canonize either one of them
15 win is really an embarrassing mark to the Lakers as a franchise they've never been so scrubby since their relocation to Los Angeles imho, but at least Kobe is gonna make another record (one he doesn't really want though) before retiring.
Duncan was always > Kobe.
That '11 run doe, godly tbh. But it sucks to live in the past all the time imho.
They were selling your .
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