I dont dig mariel tbh
Um.. That's already established. I'm talking offense of course. Best player on defense plus combined with top 10 or so offensive talent makes him the best "two way" "all-around". That's why I then talked about Curry's immeasurable offensive ability which put him over the top.
I'm just simply saying why they use the le "best two way/all around player in the league" but don't have him #1.
OP makes perfect sense to me.
Curry is the best offensive player in the league. But, he's a one trick pony...like Iverson was. Just with a better team around him.
The talking heads are like most NBA fans. They give a nod to D. They'll even say "D wins championships." Then they turn around and focus 90% of their attention on O.
It is what it is...lol
Because chicks did the long ball.
Edit: Now that I think about it, would that commercial be allowed today?
Kawhi's D is equal to prime Lebron and his shooting is better than Lebron has ever been. It's going to be about consistency over time. The media is pushing the Curry narrative, but Kawhi leads Curry in a lot of key stats including 3 pt percentage. For my money, the Warriors record isn't so much better than the Spurs that Kawhi shouldn't be MVP.
With that said, I don't want the media reporting on Kawhi and spotlighting him constantly. There's a lot of rumblings that Kerr is struggling to manage the young sensitive egos in their locker room. Whenever Curry queefs the media reports that Curry dousched with a strawberry scented vinager solution because Draymond left his uterus full. I don't want that for Kawhi.
Edit: I intended to say Kawhi leads Steph in a lot of key "defensive" stats. More appropriately I should say "all key defensive stats"
Last edited by SPURt; 04-03-2016 at 12:16 PM.
What's his one trick? Leading the league in scoring on historic efficiency while receiving more defensive attention that any other player on the planet?
In his prime, was Tim Duncan called the best two way player (or one of the best)? Is he called the best two way power forward of all time? I think not. I don't recall those words used even once to describe Tim.
And to be clear, I'm not "defending" Kawhi from a player fan perspective as some have alleged. I'm a fan of the Spurs team and all Spurs players. What I'm saying is I don't care for the term "two way" player. When you compliment someone by calling him the best "two way" player, you're actually trivializing the compliment.
If someone is the best player when you consider offense and defense, just go ahead and delete the words "two way" ... because that person IS the best player.
op is right, it pissed me off many times too.
prime lebron wasn't half the defender leonard is.
Again that antiquated PPG thingy will keep undercutting Kawhi even by advancted stats types..kawhi will need to be up 23-25 ppg, which means 34 MPG-36 mpg playing for Pop (good luck with that!!), while sprinkling his season with few 40-point games-- just for him to win MVP in the future despite destroying his compe ors in advancted metrics...
Kawhi is actually a better and more consistent defender than LeBron ever was, but the shooting argument is silly. LeBron shot 56.5% in a season, and was just an overall superior offensive player and playmaker regardless.
And Kawhi leads Curry in 3P% by .001...and Curry has taken 3X as many 3 pointers. Why is that a key stat?
Lebron shot great from the field, but not from 3. It's been the one part of Lebron's offensive game that hurt his team. The comment Curry was Kawhi has a huge statistical advantage defensively but in the one category Curry is hailed as the greatest ever he trails Kawhi. I'll take the advantage Kawhi brings defensively over what Curry brings offensively. Especially considering the Spurs offense doesn't require Kawhi carry/bail out teammates.
Given it's baseball opening day - and I know nobody in here watches it until October (including myself), but Curry is basically giving you 2004 Barry Bonds level offense but relegated to playing subpar defense in left field (we know Bonds himself was a good defensive player).
Kawhi is putting together offensive stats that would otherwise be MVP level if Curry weren't around but playing like Pudge Rodriguez or Ozzie Smith defensively at a key position.
Meh, I'm fine with the distinction. Curry is the best player IMO, but he doesn't contribute to both sides like Kawhi does. He's just so insane offensively (having arguably the greatest offensive season ever) that his overall impact still ends up edging out Kawhi's despite not doing a whole lot defensively.
When looking at guys who consistently impact both sides of the ball though, Kawhi is probably the best. I'm still not quite ready to write off LeBron just yet...even with his jumper being broken he has still been fantastic this year, and the numbers point to him getting back to playing great defense (he fell off on that end in 2014/2015).
It has to do with the impact they have on their respective teams and the NBA in general. You could put all the two way players on one team, that's how few there are of them. However guys who are basically unstoppable on offense often create more havok than guys who are stawlarts on defense. That's because one guy can kill you on offense, but it takes a team to stop you on defense. No matter how good Kawhi is, if the rest of the team can't play defense, we won't win. On the flipside, no matter how ty his teammates are, Steph Curry is likely going to cause serious issues for the other team with his ability to score off the high pick or just beyond half court, James Harden is going to cause problems with penetration, FT shooting and his 3pt shot. Westbrook is going to run all over you, and KD is going to shoot you out of the gym. None of those I mentioned are particularly a problem on defense.
You shouldn't be mad when someone calls your 16th overall pick that you traded George Hill for the "best two way player in the game". That's a huge compliment.
There's no law preventing any of you from going ahead and saying that Leonard is the best player in the league. If you guys think he's better than Curry and Lebron, then go right ahead and announce it to the world. In a couple of years when he's the best player in the league you can tell everyone how smart you were.
When he hasn't been the best player in the league, Duncan has been called the best power forward, which is a qualification. In his prime, Duncan was actually the best player in the league and he didn't need a throng of teenage girls on a message board to defend his honor by dissecting every compliment in print about him to find the hidden insult.
The fact is, Leonard is not the best player in the league right now yet he has a few prominent people, like Barkley, saying that he is. He's getting a lot of credit for being a key part of a Spurs defense that's full of guys playing great defense. If he's really that good, and if you really believe that he's going to get better, then all you have to do is wait around for it to happen.
This.
Also, O > D when it comes to player value. Tony Allen is great defensively and terrible offensively, while Lillard is the opposite, but O > D when it comes to impact.
Kawhi's BEEN the best player. Calling it like it is, is just calling it like it is.
Maybe they know he's not better than Curry, but he's so impressive and impactful that they are going out of their way to make a case for him.
By the way, offense will always have more impact, as the game is not called preventtheotherguyfrommakingabasketball.
Might be Defenseball, as short version.
I agree. They call him best 2 way player in order to put him in the top somehow.
Curry is ruining the game by treating a shot that is difficult to get and make into a regular shot. He scores 30 pts a game and makes it look like 4 vs 5 some times. He's giving Draymond a chance to show his upbringing issues. It's hard to top that.
I agree with your post just like to add to it which is prime Duncan was a big time playoff performer. He had games where he would get 30-20,40-10, and ridiculous triple doubles. If people want Kawhi to get respect and be anointed the best player in the league then he's going to have to have dominant playoff games.
Yeah, that's kind of the definition of what the best player in the league does. He's also an above average passer and a pretty damn good defender.
No because Duncan was much more of a force offensively than Leonard right now, and in the 5th season at age 25 (same as Leonard) Duncan was actually voted MVP.
No, it means he's the best on average. Right now that means Kawhi is the best defender, and tier 2 offensively (tier 1 = Curry, Lebron and so on), and to show that he's more than "just" the best defender in the league, people say he's the best 2-way player.If someone is the best player when you consider offense and defense, just go ahead and delete the words "two way" ... because that person IS the best player.
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