Best "two way" player

[resistanze]

Dumars wasn't a top defender at his position though he had an A offense. Artest didn't have a serious offensive impact even in his prime in Indy. Did you know Iggy was a top defender before last year finals? I didn't...Kawhi is called "two way" just because his offense isn't good enough to call it a top level compared to Durant or Lebron though he is a major offensive option in the NBA second best team, but his defense is on the top level compared to anyone in the league now.
Kawhi dominates defensively on small forward position having a very efficient offensive arsenal. Last one who did that was Pip. Artest, Prince, Bowen, Battier, Iggy, Johnson, Frazier are just from another league.

There's a lot of 'WTF' in this post.

Just ignoring the Dumars comments...no comment

Artest was averging 18-20 ppg in his prime, and was at 24+ before the Malice in the Palace.

Also: Iguodala makes mark as one of NBA's best two-way players (2009)

[SPURt]

All these "two way" players like Ron Artest, Joe Dumars, and Iggy were not the best players (both offensively and defensively) on a team that will finish with 65 plus wins. Curry won the MVP last year largely because he was on the NBA's best team, his numbers were solid last year but not eye popping as an MVP.

The Warriors are breaking records this year and Curry has hit shooting Nirvana. Curry, deservedly, will be MVP again this year. But Kawhi and the Spurs are the 2nd best team in the NBA by almost 10 games. Kawhi is excelling in a system that doesn't facilitate incredible individual achievement. By grouping Kawhi in with Artest and Iggy undermines Kawhi's role and accomplishments this year. Kawhi deserves to be in the conversation for MVP not diminished by buzzwords.

Would Curry or Lebron do better statistically in the Spurs system?

[YGWHI]

Nobody is changing their gameplan based on Kawhi's offense. Nobody.

The Spurs offense has turned in some type of two-ISO/mid-range/post-up/-players, Kawhi's one of those two guys and the team-leading scorer...not sure why you think other teams aren't game-planning for him as a big part of our offense.

But hopefully you're right, and teams don't care about him on that end...that could mean first Kawhi's 150 point-game in playoffs.

[apalisoc_9]

The Spurs offense has turned in some type of two-ISO/mid-range/post-up/-players, Kawhi's one of those two guys and the team-leading scorer...not sure why you think other teams aren't game-planning for him as a big part of our offense.

But hopefully you're right, and teams don't care about him on that end...that could mean first Kawhi's 150 point-game in playoffs.

Yeah that was a dumb comment. You're talking to one of the most vanilla low basketball iq posters though.

[will_spurs]

The Spurs offense has turned in some type of two-ISO/mid-range/post-up/-players, Kawhi's one of those two guys and the team-leading scorer...not sure why you think other teams aren't game-planning for him as a big part of our offense.

But hopefully you're right, and teams don't care about him on that end...that could mean first Kawhi's 150 point-game in playoffs.

I'm not talking about a defensive assignment or thinking about how they're going to defend the Spurs. I'm talking about changing their whole defense, sometimes doing something completely different from what they've been doing all season long, just because of one player. It happens with Curry, it happens with Lebron and fewer than 10 players in the league. Kawhi is simply not one of them right now.

[YGWHI]

I'm not talking about a defensive assignment or thinking about how they're going to defend the Spurs. I'm talking about changing their whole defense, sometimes doing something completely different from what they've been doing all season long, just because of one player.

Can't remember when Doc started to try to keep Kawhi away from his favorite spots and letting other Spurs players free... That Clips-team-covering Kawhi...It was in last playoffs right?

The good thing? Kawhi's far better now than he was in 2015 playoffs.

It happens with Curry, it happens with Lebron and fewer than 10 players in the league. Kawhi is simply not one of them right now.

I wonder how your ten-players-list looks...If you put Harden there I'm gonna laugh so hard.

[J_Paco]

All these "two way" players like Ron Artest, Joe Dumars, and Iggy were not the best players (both offensively and defensively) on a team that will finish with 65 plus wins. Curry won the MVP last year largely because he was on the NBA's best team, his numbers were solid last year but not eye popping as an MVP.

The Warriors are breaking records this year and Curry has hit shooting Nirvana. Curry, deservedly, will be MVP again this year. But Kawhi and the Spurs are the 2nd best team in the NBA by almost 10 games. Kawhi is excelling in a system that doesn't facilitate incredible individual achievement. By grouping Kawhi in with Artest and Iggy undermines Kawhi's role and accomplishments this year. Kawhi deserves to be in the conversation for MVP not diminished by buzzwords.

Would Curry or Lebron do better statistically in the Spurs system?

Being a great "two-way" player isn't some "buzzword" or meant to disrespect Kawhi at all. Matter of fact, being considered the best two-way player is no different than Mike Trout or Bryce Harper being considered the best "5-tool" player in baseball.

And Kawhi should feel immensely proud that he's considered this great so early on especially when you consider who else's (Duncan, Jordan, Olujawon, David Robinson, etc.) company he's keeping. Iguodala, and Artest were elite defenders that could give you solid output on offense in their prime, but Dumars was a HOF level talent , while being undersized at 6'3" - 6'4," on the court and shouldn't be lumped in with those two.

It makes sense to compare Kawhi to Artest and Iguodala (same position and similar body type), but Kawhi has a "drive" that those two lacked. His temperament is similar to James Worthy or Scottie Pippen, yet Kawhi (thus far) is proving that he can be "the man" or "Alpha" on an elite or championship level team. If he can capture another DPOY - looks like he will too - while somehow leading his team passed Golden State and LeBron (again) in the NBA Finals then the comparisons must move onto Bird, Baylor, James, Erving, Barry, Durant and the other all-time great SF's.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Between 2003 and 2007 you could have called Bruce Bowen the league's best "one-way" player.....on defense. He was the league's version of Curry on the defensive side of the ball. His defense was key to 3 championships in 5 years. Of course that wasn't going to win him any MVPs but it didn't make him any less valuable a piece to the Spurs championship teams during that era than Curry is to the Warriors. Take Bruce off those teams and they don't win championships just like the Warriors don't advance past round 1 without Curry. Maybe by saying Leonard is the best "two-way" player in the league folks are just acknowledging that Leonard would have a stronger case to win MVP if defense counted in the voting as much as offense does. I think it's just a way of validating his overall game.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

The Greek freak will soon be the best two-way player in the NBA.

[San Antonio Slayer]

There's a lot of 'WTF' in this post.

Just ignoring the Dumars comments...no comment

Artest was averging 18-20 ppg in his prime, and was at 24+ before the Malice in the Palace.

Also: Iguodala makes mark as one of NBA's best two-way players (2009)

I guess the Jordan Rules were invented just because Dumars was very good at D.

Artest 24+ in first 7 games of the regular season. Only one full season with 45% FG, the rest is below. His best 3 PT % is 39. Just an average offensive SF.

I checked all the boxscores in 2008-2009 for Iggy against strong opposition. He just managed to held under 35% Kobe, Pierce, Wade and T-mac only once. Well done but not enough to be nba's best two-way player IMO. and that John Shumann's article...Com'on man

[100%duncan]

Can't remember when Doc started to try to keep Kawhi away from his favorite spots and letting other Spurs players free... That Clips-team-covering Kawhi...It was in last playoffs right?

The good thing? Kawhi's far better now than he was in 2015 playoffs.


I wonder how your ten-players-list looks...If you put Harden there I'm gonna laugh so hard.

Aaaand no response was made after that.

Idiot.

[midnightpulp]

Well, they seem more realistic than these old fans who keep saying these crazy things in 2016.



At least, they know that Kawhi's just 24 years old and has a lot of room for improvement...

There's nothing crazy about that comment. We ain't beating the Warriors without a 3rd threat. If you don't want it to be Tony, fine. Then Manu or Mills. But someone other than the big 2 is going to have to step up with an 18-20 point (or more) performance in a key game.

[AFMadison]

There's nothing crazy about that comment. We ain't beating the Warriors without a 3rd threat. If you don't want it to be Tony, fine. Then Manu or Mills. But someone other than the big 2 is going to have to step up with an 18-20 point (or more) performance in a key game.

Do people actually think the opposite?

[spurraider21]

Do people actually think the opposite?

no, all season mid has basically been saying tony HAS to be that guy whereas most other people were saying we can rely on any one of manu/green/mills/parker/diaw to step up in each game

[YGWHI]

There's nothing crazy about that comment. We ain't beating the Warriors without a 3rd threat. If you don't want it to be Tony, fine. Then Manu or Mills. But someone other than the big 2 is going to have to step up with an 18-20 point (or more) performance in a key game.

It's crazy because you're living in the past, expecting that Parker has to be that guy dropping 25 pts or averaging 17 ppg in the WCF. And it's not about what I want...I just try to stay realistic.

[Keepin' it real]

The best two way player in the NBA must shoot more than 12 times against quality opponents.

[UZER]

Kawhi needs to assert himself earlier in games.

[YGWHI]

Kawhi needs to assert himself earlier in games.

Or Pop can involve him more on offense early...In the last three games the first quarter has been all about LMA-Parker P&Rs, LMA post-ups and Parker driving to the hoop with mixed results.

It's pretty obvious that Pop wants to establish LMA and Parker in the first minutes but more calls for Kawhi won't kill him or the Spurs. Just mix it up, Pop. LMA's plays with same Kawhi's...

[Kawhitstorm]

Kawhi needs to assert himself earlier in games.

Kawhi is the "Closer" & LMA is a rhythm player that needs touches.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Kawhi is a great defensive player but struggles on the offensive side. His low post moves and multiple fakes doesn't fool the defense. His inability to pass out of the post is keeping the Spurs offense from flowing.

[YGWHI]

These trolls...

Kawhi is a great defensive player but struggles on the offensive side.

Of course he does. He's so inefficient just 51 FG% in the season, one of the best post-up players in the game, 3's shooter, 8-12 tonight...But but "the Jazz didn't respect him, they put Ingles on him... " or it was Hayward?

[Kawhitstorm]

Kawhi is a great defensive player but struggles on the offensive side. His low post moves and multiple fakes doesn't fool the defense. His inability to pass out of the post is keeping the Spurs offense from flowing.

Do you think Pop cared about the "offensive flow" when he was FORCE feeding LMA?

[resistanze]

Meaning he is great or very good on both ends of the court. Maybe top 2 on defense and maybe top 10 on offense. While Curry is #1 on offense and probably not in the top 50 on defense but his offense and game changing ability still make him the best overall player while not being great on both ends. Nothing to be offended by.

[spursistan]

last night was a reality check..Yeah, Kawhi is still that far away removed from taking over big games (much less on the road).. That's why Curry should be a unanimous MVP..

[K...]

LMAO..."mid your an idiot Parker isn't number three"

Losers take the field. The field has been dead and empty all season.

But sure, it'll happen. A full season of bad shooting. But it won't be Parker! ! ! , it won't. Lmao