NBA: Pippen: 96 Bulls would SWEPT 2016 Warriors

**midnightpulp** · 04-05-2016

People remember the Jordans, and the Paytons of the old era, but forget about the Mookie Blaylocks, the Abdul Raufs, the "Sleepy" Floyds of the league.

If Mookie could do this to the Bulls while dropping 20ppg on 45% shooting per game in the Eastern Conference Finals, imagine guys like Cp3 would do, Westbrook, Curry, Leonard, Lebron, etc.

Again, with the one game/series cherry pick again.

While you're at it, post Mookie's career playoff stats (hint: they're relatively terrible).

You really are a debater. Now run along and find a video of a helicopter parent teaching his kid to shoot 3s by blindfolding him or employing some equally ridiculous "cutting edge" training method.

**midnightpulp** · 04-05-2016

Originally Posted by KL2

Payton was still easily considered a top 10 PG no matter how much you try to

it and Parker was 8 years away from his prime.

You don't understand how the NBA works, it's a cycle. It takes the average NBA player around 7 years to peak. Once they peak their bodies start to gradually break down, however they see a reduced role and learn new skills as they get older, Manu/TD/TP have changed over the years and especially their roles. The vets have a huge advantage in playing professional NBA ball for 10+ years over the younger players who are still developing their games and filling out.

Look at Lebron, Durant, Melo etc. just a few years ago they ruled the league, now they're getting outplayed by guys like Leonard, Butler, George, Giannis etc. Take away these new, much better crop of SF's and Bron' would still be ringing in MIA dropping monster games. All it took was a few years for the newer generation to catch up.

Melo never ruled anything.

And Lebron's metrics are still rather dominant. But yeah, his "drop off" has everything to do with "bodies filling out" and nothing to do with the fact he's a 31 year old player with tons of mileage in his 13 season. And

Giannis on his (or KD's) level. .076 RPM

. Maybe he needs another round of Eastern Bloc training? Durant's metrics are also better than all of those players you've mentioned aside from Leonard.

And

at the bolded. Bron almost rang again, in his first year on a completely different team that was down 2 key starters. But yes, you're right. The reason he was denied because a newer generation SF caught up and effectively countered him.

to newer generation 32 year old Andre Iguodala.

Kawhi is really the only SF from the post-2010 class to challenge either of those 2 at the SF position.

**UZER** · 04-05-2016

Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Citing one game anomalies as "evidence"

Why don't you post their whole heads up history?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=abdulma02

And yeah, about modern defensive schemes. Imagine Jordan and Pippen on the Spurs playing under Pop's defensive philosophy. It would be unfair (

D-League Green in the same universe as Jordan). Also, the Spurs man up plenty of times on Curry. The heavy switching is often a result of the Warriors sending Curry through an avalanche of picks.

Jordan played as a washed up 40 year old when the World invasion was really strong (Dirk, Peja, Parker, Yao, rookie Manu, rookie Pau, etc), and he still managed solid numbers, and was a net positive player on the floor.

Like always you have little argument (never backed up by statistics, coherent arguments, etc) and just appeal to "bodies filling out" and/or posting silly videos of fathers teaching their kids terrible dribbling mechanics.

This isn't what would the Bulls be under Pops scheme. This is the 96 bulls vs the current Warriors. It wouldn't be close.

**lefty** · 04-06-2016

96 Bulls wouldn't have lost at home to today's Wolves

CASE CLOSED

**Stalin** · 04-06-2016

Originally Posted by lefty

96 Bulls wouldn't have lost at home to today's Wolves

CASE CLOSED

Co sign

**Kawhitstorm** · 04-07-2016

Originally Posted by Benoit

Stephs Dubs are by far the best team of this era

Based on that logic, the Mavs were the greatest team of their era since they won 67 games, had a league MVP & won a championship.

(That's basically what the Worriers are right now until they ACTUALLY win a 2nd chip)

**hitmanyr2k** · 04-07-2016

It wouldn't be a sweep but I would take the Bulls in 6. They were a long defensive team that could shrink the floor, play passing lanes, and suffocate teams with a starting lineup where there was no one under 6'6. Chicago was much like the Milwaukee Bucks are built today and I didn't think it was a coincidence that the Bucks gave the Warriors trouble both times they met this season. The Warriors have depth on their side but the Bulls starters were always well-conditioned and played big minutes anyway unlike today's players that get gassed after playing more than 35 minutes lol.

**KL2** · 04-08-2016

Originally Posted by midnightpulp

Again, with the one game/series cherry pick again.

While you're at it, post Mookie's career playoff stats (hint: they're relatively terrible).

You really are a debater. Now run along and find a video of a helicopter parent teaching his kid to shoot 3s by blindfolding him or employing some equally ridiculous "cutting edge" training method.

Lol "cherry pick"?

The Hawks could've been up 2-0 in that series and could've taken it, if Blaylock is doing that to the Bulls what do you think a Leonard, George, or even a Bledsoe will do? Do you honestly think these players wouldn't do significantly better than Mookie? Like I said, you don't remember about the Mookies or Sleepy Floyds of the league, you just remember the stars they marketed the out of at that time.

This is a roster of Laettner-Mutombo-Corbin-Blaylock-Smith and almost no bench giving MJ & the Bulls , this team won 57 games that year, you're delusional if you think that roster wouldn't be anything more than a lotto team in today's league.

Melo never ruled anything.

And Lebron's metrics are still rather dominant. But yeah, his "drop off" has everything to do with "bodies filling out" and nothing to do with the fact he's a 31 year old player with tons of mileage in his 13 season. And

Giannis on his (or KD's) level. .076 RPM

. Maybe he needs another round of Eastern Bloc training? Durant's metrics are also better than all of those players you've mentioned aside from Leonard.

And

at the bolded. Bron almost rang again, in his first year on a completely different team that was down 2 key starters. But yes, you're right. The reason he was denied because a newer generation SF caught up and effectively countered him.

to newer generation 32 year old Andre Iguodala.

Kawhi is really the only SF from the post-2010 class to challenge either of those 2 at the SF position.

Melo was always an elite perimeter player, how many other forwards aside of KD/Bron used to be able to go toe to toe with him?

I'm talking about their individual match ups, these guys battle each other matching each other's production leaving their teammates to decide the game, like this didn't use to happen to KD or Bron on a regular basis, they used to dominate whoever they put in front of them:

Giannis isn't even close to filling out, just turned 21.

I guess you forget how much better SF has gotten over the past few years lmao, here is a list of some of the best SF's in the league back from the '09-10 season:
G. Wallace, D. Granger, C. Butler, Iguodala, Turkoglu, Artest (getting schooled by pre-prime KD lol), Deng, Gay, and a young Durant and several other young guys still developing.

Just a few years later:
Leonard, Wiggins, George, J. Butler, Antetokounmpo, Hayward, Gallinari, Crowder, prime KD etc. I'm leaving a ton of names off this list too. Just from a physical stand point you're also seeing guys that can match Bron's size like Stanley Johnson, the average weight of these new forwards is 230-240 easy.

The SF position has gotten significantly better, the depth at the position is the strongest it's ever been. Bron wasn't ringing last year either lol, GS was/is young and relatively inexperienced, they were bound to stumble along the way. I really doubt he gets out this time with how much better the East has gotten even with a healthy roster, Bron used to cruise right through the East without breaking a sweat, that's not the case anymore.

**midnightpulp** · 04-08-2016

Originally Posted by KL2

Lol "cherry pick"?

The Hawks could've been up 2-0 in that series and could've taken it, if Blaylock is doing that to the Bulls what do you think a Leonard, George, or even a Bledsoe will do? Do you honestly think these players wouldn't do significantly better than Mookie? Like I said, you don't remember about the Mookies or Sleepy Floyds of the league, you just remember the stars they marketed the out of at that time.

This is a roster of Laettner-Mutombo-Corbin-Blaylock-Smith and almost no bench giving MJ & the Bulls , this team won 57 games that year, you're delusional if you think that roster wouldn't be anything more than a lotto team in today's league.

Still ignored Mookie's overall ty, very ty, post-season stats.

Who gives a if the Hawks gave the Bulls ? Last year's depleted Cavs gave the Warriors " " with an Australian scrub locking down Wardell in a couple of games, and I'd wager a guess that Blaylock is probably a better defender than Delly.

I remember all of those players fine, because I'm not 19 like yourself. The difference is that I actually remember how good those players were while you evaluate them through youtube highlights. Blaylock was a solid, defensive first PG on the level of a Mike Conley. Steve Smith wasn't any worse than most modern 2nd tier SGs like CJ McCollum, Rodney Hood, Kyle Korver, etc. And 97 Laettner was a beast. 112/101 ORTG/DRTG spread, and was consistently money from the longer mid range. Basically the white LMA. He just couldn't stay healthy. And Deke was a great paint anchor. The 97 Hawks were a very good team. Like most 90's teams, they were front loaded, but they're no worse than a team like the Grizzlies in the modern NBA.

Melo was always an elite perimeter player, how many other forwards aside of KD/Bron used to be able to go toe to toe with him?

Melo

Outplayed by Luke in' Walton in the '08 matchup vs. the Lakers. Next season, he tees off on Ariza for the first two games, and guess who Phil puts on Melo for the final games? Undersized Kirby, who demolishes Melo at both ends in the remaining games. He had a good series against the Jazz in '10, but loses. Then he goes to New York and gets worked by a past-his-prime Paul Pierce in the playoffs.

Melo never ruled.

And since when did Bron "cruise" through the East without breaking a sweat? Aside from his '07 heroics, he consistently lost with the Cavs. Only when teamed up with Bosh and Wade, did he start "cruising."

G-Force: Athletic freak with tons of upside. Could never stay healthy. But he peaked as a 20 ppg guy and remained a ~100 DRTG level defender. If G-Force was a rookie right now, you'd be creaming yourself at his potential. "Just wait til he fills out!"

Danny Granger was another beast who was sadly derailed by injuries. Same thing applies to G-Force above. You'd be creaming yourself if Danny was a young and healthy player right now. "Danny Granger is 6'9", long as , and moves like a cat. He's only 24, yet is already a 25ppg scorer. Just wait til his body fills out!" No young modern SF aside from Kawhi and George has yet to reach Danny's peak level (and since he was injured before he reached his basketball peak, we'll never know how good he could've been).

Iggy just won the Finals MVP. So I don't see how citing him helps your argument.

Artest schooled by pre-prime KD?

Artest locked his ass down:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...vs-lakers.html

And the same logic to Deng and Gay applies. If they were young players, you'd be re edly overrating them, as well.

No, the SF position has not gotten significantly better. You forget how good the players you mentioned were because the majority of them were derailed by injuries or past their primes. With the exception of Kawhi, Bron and KD still rule the position, like they have since '10. And

Hayward, Giannis, Gallo, Crowder, Stanley Johnson any better than Gay, G-Force, Granger, Deng, Artest. Wiggins will be one to watch, perhaps. But he might not wind up any better than Gerald Wallace, who had similar athleticism and skillset.

The only reason the SF position is "somewhat" better is because the emergence of Kawhi and to an extent Paul George, but overall, it's not that much deeper than it was in '09-'12.

Jimmy Butler is also an SG.

**KL2** · 04-09-2016

Still ignored Mookie's overall ty, very ty, post-season stats.

Who gives a if the Hawks gave the Bulls ? Last year's depleted Cavs gave the Warriors " " with an Australian scrub locking down Wardell in a couple of games, and I'd wager a guess that Blaylock is probably a better defender than Delly.

This is a veteran Bulls team struggling against Mookie and the Hawks. GS is young and was on their 1st le run, of course they were going to struggle along the way. And Bron>>>>>Mookie LOL. Curry was never locked up by Delly, he had a momentary lapse in focus for a game, like I said, they never made it this far.

I remember all of those players fine, because I'm not 19 like yourself. The difference is that I actually remember how good those players were while you evaluate them through youtube highlights. Blaylock was a solid, defensive first PG on the level of a Mike Conley. Steve Smith wasn't any worse than most modern 2nd tier SGs like CJ McCollum, Rodney Hood, Kyle Korver, etc. And 97 Laettner was a beast. 112/101 ORTG/DRTG spread, and was consistently money from the longer mid range. Basically the white LMA. He just couldn't stay healthy. And Deke was a great paint anchor. The 97 Hawks were a very good team. Like most 90's teams, they were front loaded, but they're no worse than a team like the Grizzlies in the modern NBA.

I really doubt you remember regular season/playoff games from 15+ years ago. Comparing Laettner to Aldridge

, Aldridge is 270lbs he'd straight bully those Bulls teams, he wasn't 240-250 like Laettner. You don't remember the scrubs that were guarding MJ/Pippen, or even Blaylock. Grizz>>>Hawks

You just remember the peak. Guys like McCollum & Hood would be stars in the 90s playing against guys like Tyrone Corbin or Jon Barry.

Melo

Outplayed by Luke in' Walton in the '08 matchup vs. the Lakers. Next season, he tees off on Ariza for the first two games, and guess who Phil puts on Melo for the final games? Undersized Kirby, who demolishes Melo at both ends in the remaining games. He had a good series against the Jazz in '10, but loses. Then he goes to New York and gets worked by a past-his-prime Paul Pierce in the playoffs.

Melo never ruled.

Melo was averaging 12.5 FTA against the '08 Lakers, he shot 28 in the final 2 games, they could not guard him. He also outplayed Pierce in their series. Very few people used to rival him in 1v1 match ups, now it's just common.

And since when did Bron "cruise" through the East without breaking a sweat? Aside from his '07 heroics, he consistently lost with the Cavs. Only when teamed up with Bosh and Wade, did he start "cruising."

Bron lead the Cavs to 66 and 61 wins his Final 2 years there, he cruised through the regular season.

This team with Illgauskus & Boobie Gibson winning 66 games:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2009.html

Bron couldn't do with that team in today's league.

The only guys that would rival him were players like KD & Melo, whoever he matched up with, he generally demolished.

G-Force: Athletic freak with tons of upside. Could never stay healthy. But he peaked as a 20 ppg guy and remained a ~100 DRTG level defender. If G-Force was a rookie right now, you'd be creaming yourself at his potential. "Just wait til he fills out!"

Danny Granger was another beast who was sadly derailed by injuries. Same thing applies to G-Force above. You'd be creaming yourself if Danny was a young and healthy player right now. "Danny Granger is 6'9", long as , and moves like a cat. He's only 24, yet is already a 25ppg scorer. Just wait til his body fills out!" No young modern SF aside from Kawhi and George has yet to reach Danny's peak level (and since he was injured before he reached his basketball peak, we'll never know how good he could've been).

Granger was a scrub he choked HARD against Bron's Heat in the playoffs who were just cruising at that time:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo.../danny-granger

Anybody that has watched him and PG play will know PG is levels ahead of him, it's not even close.

Iggy just won the Finals MVP. So I don't see how citing him helps your argument.

Curry was the real MVP, GS dedicated their entire defense towards stopping Bron, Igudoala had a significant amount of help from Green/Bogut. Iguodala was the false MVP just like Porker in '07.

Artest schooled by pre-prime KD?

Artest locked his ass down:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...vs-lakers.html

Durant averaged 10 FTA that series, Artest could not guard him, it'd be obvious if you actually watched the series, there are even clips on Youtube of Artest getting schooled by him that series he was struggling just to stay with him.

The only thing that saved LA was OKC's entire core not being in their prime, Westbrook-Ibaka-KD were all very young and inexperienced. Even Danny Green has done a much better job of guarding a prime KD.

And the same logic to Deng and Gay applies. If they were young players, you'd be re edly overrating them, as well.

No, the SF position has not gotten significantly better. You forget how good the players you mentioned were because the majority of them were derailed by injuries or past their primes. With the exception of Kawhi, Bron and KD still rule the position, like they have since '10. And

Hayward, Giannis, Gallo, Crowder, Stanley Johnson any better than Gay, G-Force, Granger, Deng, Artest. Wiggins will be one to watch, perhaps. But he might not wind up any better than Gerald Wallace, who had similar athleticism and skillset.

The only reason the SF position is "somewhat" better is because the emergence of Kawhi and to an extent Paul George, but overall, it's not that much deeper than it was in '09-'12.

Jimmy Butler is also an SG.

The SF position has gotten significantly better and deeper, you haven't been watching the NBA this year.

Antetokounmpo has been averaging close to a triple double ever since the Bucks have put him at PG, this is a 6'11 SF we're talking about playing PG. He's literally just as tall and long as Hakeem Olajuwon, in fact he's slightly longer by an inch, he weighs less but is probably stronger than Olajuwon was at 21 years old who iirc was still playing in college.

Butler plays SF when he's playing against other star SFs:

Guys like Deng & Granger weren't having 1v1 battles and matching Bron/KD's productivity like these newer SF's.

These duels are now common, each night it's Bron/KD vs Giannis-Butler-Leonard-PG-Wiggins etc. and many times their opponents have gotten the better of them.

Leonard-PG-Butler-Giannis can actually match up with these guys on defense and take it to them on offense, this never used to happen.

**ambchang** · 04-10-2016

FTA. The entire league can't guard harden.

One game highlights.

everybody knew if they saw it as an argument.

weight was used as a strength metric, then suddenly Greek freak is stronger than Hakeem despite a lower weight because he was probably stronger than young Hakeem with nothing and no basis to back up such claim.

Butler Giannis Wiggins or even kawhi and George as some sort of revolutionary talent that the league has never seen before.

monster age of sf, with Lebron still being the best at the position in his TWELETH year, not to mention gettinng shut down by a sf playing his TWELETH season, who's 6'6" and 210 lbs.