IMO Simmons> Kmart

[$pursDynasty]

Poolboy, ok I can take that as an argument, but what is K-Mart besides a veteran? I mean a detriment on D and no great shakes on O. At this point I would prefer seeing Andre Miller to Martin. Maybe Pop does too and that is why we never saw Miller (and very little Simmons) against the Dubs.

[Ditty]

Meh..both bring something to the table that other doesn't. Kevin Martin ball watches too much off the ball, he needs to pay attention to his man that he is guarding, and he can get a little too cute when trying to pick up fouls are my only problems with him. Like his three point shooting though I'm more confident with him shooting 3's than guys who have been with us for quite sometime at this point. Simmons defense has improved, but relies a lot on his athleticism. Not a great shooter, but like his slashing ability at least. Both could be fine in certain matchups.

[cjw]

Simmons is too reckless for pop.

So are KM's closeouts on shooters. Yes, Simmons has issues with pick and roll defense and Green (elite otherwise) has his brainfart moments. Manu gambles, but is still more than competent. Parker tries and Mills draws fouls when he's not getting torched. Still all far better than KM.

[SAGirl]

If Simmons could handle the ball better maybe he'd replace K-Mart easily.

That's really all it boils down to.
Personally I like Simmons better. He just turned out to be too unreliable and mistake prone (reverting to dleague level during the rodeo road trip--ppl have a short memory here and forget that) so Pop pulled him back to allow him to work on his game and get better.

Unfortunately Kmart is not much better and neither guy is good defensively either.

The only thing Kmart has over him is that he's not afraid to shoot the 3, Simmons still passed up too many perimeter shots to dribble into TO, but that's really all he brings. You give up so much subbing him for other guys that as we have seen we haven't been winning games in which Kmart plays a lot of minutes.

[SAGirl]

K-Mart is the anti-Bonner.

I watch him, he looks ok, then you take a look at the box score and he is -10.

true.

[coachmac87]

Tbh K-Mart has been put into a tough spot. Joined team during that tough 5 game stretch. Not only is it hard to join a great team but especially during toughest stretch of season. He's has his moments good and bad and his minutes have been very inconsistent but if I had to give him a grade it'd be a C+.

[bigfan]

He hasn't had it near as rough as Simmons and at least Simmons brings some fire. I understand being brought in mid season sucks but that's why he makes big bucks. I hope we keep Simmons regardless but as for Martin, well, he can go the way of KMart after the season.

[Proxy]

I like Simmons more, but if I'm playing it safe I'll put Martin in. He's played on teams where he was the go to scorer and . If Simmons is playing in the playoffs as a rookie, I'm thinking it's a desperation move by Pop, inserting him when everyone else is playing like and the team is looking for a spark.

[Mel_13]

They're both behind KA for minutes as the 4th wing in the rotation. The 5th wing won't play outside of garbage time.

[hater]

And Belinelli >>>>>>>> both of them scrubs

[urunobili]

Agreed

[steeledl]

They're both behind KA for minutes as the 4th wing in the rotation. The 5th wing won't play outside of garbage time.

Honestly I hate this.... On a team without a lot of athleticism or shooting he doesn't really bring anything to the table for us. Just another slow player who can't shoot or create. He doesn't have the ups and downs that Kmart and Simmons have but he is just meh.

[Mel_13]

Honestly I hate this.... On a team without a lot of athleticism or shooting he doesn't really bring anything to the table for us. Just another slow player who can't shoot or create. He doesn't have the ups and downs that Kmart and Simmons have but he is just meh.

Despite KA's limitations, neither Simmons or Martin showed enough to supplant him the rotation.

[steeledl]

Despite KA's limitations, neither Simmons or Martin showed enough to supplant him the rotation.

Perhaps... But against golden state I'd rather just shorten the rotation and play Simmons or Kmart a few minutes to see if they have a spark and if not just pull him. Playing Anderson seems like a safe way to lose closer games.

[Mel_13]

Perhaps... But against golden state I'd rather just shorten the rotation and play Simmons or Kmart a few minutes to see if they have a spark and if not just pull him. Playing Anderson seems like a safe way to lose closer games.

Shortening the rotation to three wings at key points in the playoffs is a time-tested Pop tactic.

[SAGirl]

Anderson does bring things to the team we need since rebounding is a big problem for our bench bigs, as is defense. You can't finish defensive possessions if you don't secure the rebound. Despite him not being much of a weapon offensively this season, they go to collectively when you sub him out for any of the other two. Basically the main reason that neither guy has made him irrelevant.

And the other two got chances, A LOT of chances, A LOT of extended minutes, and they were not better. Again Kmart the better shooter if the 3, but that's it, worse in every possible way. Simmons more athletic but not better defensively and too risky to play.

I still like Simmons>Kmart though, but they are not better than Anderson, who is getting minutes as a forward too anyways, which the other two are incapable of.

[Mel_13]

Anderson does bring things to the team we need since rebounding is a big problem for our bench bigs, as is defense. You can't finish defensive possessions if you don't secure the rebound. Despite him not being much of a weapon offensively this season, they go to collectively when you sub him out for any of the other two. Basically the main reason that neither guy has made him irrelevant.

And the other two got chances, A LOT of chances, A LOT of extended minutes, and they were not better. Again Kmart the better shooter if the 3, but that's it, worse in every possible way. Simmons more athletic but not better defensively and too risky to play.

I still like Simmons>Kmart though, but they are not better than Anderson, who is getting minutes as a forward too anyways, which the other two are incapable of.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for KA, but it's really not necessary to make the case for him anytime that anyone says a discouraging word.

There was a season-long compe ion for minutes as the 4th wing. KA won that compe ion fair and square.

[SAGirl]

I appreciate your enthusiasm for KA, but it's really not necessary to make the case for him anytime that anyone says a discouraging word.

There was a season-long compe ion for minutes as the 4th wing. KA won that compe ion fair and square.

Lol I didn't mention him initially since the thread was Simmons vs Kmart, but honestly it does irritate me that KA is brought into discussions like this as if he doesn't bring anything, when we have won so many games he's helped us in and none of the other two guys can provide what he does. Legitimately, you could say it's a trade off as each player is different with different strengths and weaknesses.

You could even make the argument situationally one guy could be better than another, but to flat out say KA doesn't bring anything is disingenuous and does irritate me.

I do see rotations shortened in the playoffs. I also still think Kmart might have a role bc our shooting woes unfortunately go beyond KA. But I don't see too much for Kmart anyways bc the trade off for anone else he could sub in for is huge. I see him maybe for Danny when you can spare him or Danny is having a terrible game.

I am rooting for Simmons myself too, let that be clear.

[Spurtacular]

K-Mart is 2012-13 Gary Neal status

Not really. 12-13 Spurs heavily depended on Neal.

[Kawhitstorm]

Not really. 12-13 Spurs heavily depended on Neal.

That isn't the point, he was ABSOLUTE shyt that season.
-He had a NEGATIVE VORP (dead last on the team)
-The WORST DPBM
-The WORST WS/48 among rotation players by a MILE
Spurs HEAVILY depended on Porker in last season's playoffs but that doesn't mean he played well.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Agree with OP. Wish we'd kept Butler.

Love ya, Bill, but do we need better defense? Especially from an end of the bench guy? Our defense is solid. What looks anemic, and has all year, is the offense. Whatever longshot Kmart may be to provide an offensive spark, as well as Simmons, similarly, I fully give the nod to both over Butler, who was good, here, especially defensively, but he was limited on offense. Didn't like losing him, but our offense is freakin' broken. Hopefully it's ropeadope, and Pop, and flip a switch time as those optimistic of us suggest, but I see a whole lot ailing the offense that worries me. Kmart and Simmons may fail to cure it, but they have greater than Butler's 0% chance of doing so, IMHO.

[Spurtacular]

That isn't the point, he was ABSOLUTE shyt that season.
-He had a NEGATIVE VORP (dead last on the team)
-The WORST DPBM
-The WORST WS/48 among rotation players by a MILE
Spurs HEAVILY depended on Porker in last season's playoffs but that doesn't mean he played well.

Neal: 21.8 mpg, 9.5 ppg .487 eFG
Martin: 15.8 mpg, 6.1 ppg .441 eFG (Deeper in rotation, frequent DNPs)

[bigfan]

And Belinelli >>>>>>>> both of them scrubs

Never understood the hate for that guy on this board.

[tholdren]

I don't think so - but I do think the general premise is correct: Spurs need a slasher.

Kevin has to be aggressive and draw the fouls. He's been hesitant. Simmons is biggest asset is his biggest weakness - his energy. His skills are mediocre. Would rather have him instead of kyle anderson. Would rather have jimmer tbh

[steeledl]

Lol I didn't mention him initially since the thread was Simmons vs Kmart, but honestly it does irritate me that KA is brought into discussions like this as if he doesn't bring anything, when we have won so many games he's helped us in and none of the other two guys can provide what he does. Legitimately, you could say it's a trade off as each player is different with different strengths and weaknesses.

You could even make the argument situationally one guy could be better than another, but to flat out say KA doesn't bring anything is disingenuous and does irritate me.

I do see rotations shortened in the playoffs. I also still think Kmart might have a role bc our shooting woes unfortunately go beyond KA. But I don't see too much for Kmart anyways bc the trade off for anone else he could sub in for is huge. I see him maybe for Danny when you can spare him or Danny is having a terrible game.

I am rooting for Simmons myself too, let that be clear.

really wasn't being disingenuous. That's my honest opinion. I'm not saying he can't contribute in the future but with the way the Spurs team is currently constructed he doesn't really add much for a 10th or 11th man. We can agree to disagree though.... That's fine .