You act like it has never happened.
How many years did Deke get the max?
It is not out of the realm of possibility given this FA class.
He's probably gonna get it, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying when it's all said and done, Dumars will wish he hadn't given it to him. That contract is gonna look real stupid by '08 when he's struggling to get 10 rebs/per and people are scoring on him at will.
[QUOTE=boutons_]Chemistry problems?
Wheels coming of yet another Detroit vehicle?[/QUOTE]
speaking OF
when are they building a honda plant in SAN ANTONIO....
lol ...
...or I think Darko holds a lot of secrets (possibly erotic) on the Pistons, and is using extortion on them one by one. How many pistons were missing from that lineup that night in the final quarter? Can't you just imagine Ben getting ready to come in and Darko on the court strike him the look: Flip: " Alright Ben, time to clock in.."
Ben: "hee, ok coa--...." catches Darko.
Flip: "well...??"
Ben shakes his head rapidly and doesn't budge.
Flip "Get the in there!"
continues shaking head...
An article from the Det. News Apr 10
Rob Parker
Ben Wallace vents and Pistons listen, and both move on
AUBURN HILLS -- If this is disharmony, can we order some more for the postseason?
With the playoffs just around the corner, this season to remember isn't going down the tubes because of a loss in Orlando when Ben Wallace, the face of this franchise, refused to go into the game in the stretch drive.
If anything, what it showed is that this team is human. Things have run so smoothly around here that you almost think the players are robots.
In reality, everybody can't always be with the program all the time. Disharmony isn't a bad thing, especially if a player can put his teammates on notice and use it as motivation.
Clearly, that's what Wallace got.
Wallace had reason to be frustrated. In his three previous games before Sunday, Wallace hadn't played well offensively, averaging 3.3 points and making just 2 of 9 free throws. He just didn't feel a part of the offense
Wallace, as expected, had a big game against the Indiana Pacers on Sunday. He set season highs in rebounds (22) and offensive rebounds (nine), and he helped the Pistons to embarrass the Pacers, 98-73, at The Palace.
Stirring the pot
"It's good to have a shake-up every now and then," Lindsey Hunter said. "That's life."
While Wallace said he had no reason to apologize, he did acknowledge that he made a mistake.
"I have no regrets," Wallace said. "I put the past behind me. If you have regrets, you don't learn anything. You learn from the past and keep rolling."
Don't look at this just on the surface. It might appear as if this is a conflict between Wallace and coach Flip Saunders. Not true. Wallace's message was to the other four players who arguably make up the best starting five in the NBA.
Recently, Wallace thought things had reverted to when Rick Carlisle coached here. But Larry Brown changed all that when he got here.
For whatever reason, it just hadn't been the case recently and Big Ben let everybody know it wasn't going to continue. And while Wallace didn't score a lot Sunday -- just four points on five shots -- his teammates looked for him early and often with lobs at the basket against the Pacers.
"I told Ben when I talked to him that I have a lot of respect for him and everything he does," said Saunders, who never thought about suspending Wallace.
No folding his tent
Wallace's actions Sunday showed he's not just a man of words. He leads by example.
"These guys in the locker room know what I'm about," Wallace said. "There's no quit in me.
"I've been fighting all my life."
Indeed. That's why you knew there would be no carryover and that Wallace wouldn't continue to go against what he's all about. For sure, Wallace has a short menu: team and winning.
"You knew he was going to come out and play today," Hunter said. "That's Ben. That's our leader. As he goes, we go."
Sometimes, though, teammates need to be reminded of that.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...127/SPORTS0102
Nah, I think folks would rather hope that the wheels are coming off or that Flip is losing the team or something.
Ben almost NEVER makes waves, and when he does, it's a sign that he's not satisfied with the team play. Like if they're down 3-1 in a series against the Magic, or routinely giving up double-digit leads in the first half, f'rinstance.
His teammates dont involve him. I understand that. I am sure Ben can understand his team not involving him in the 4th quarter (his God-awful FT%).
But he wants to be involved in the first 3 quarters. I dont blame him. Not one bit.
Its the Sheed and Chauncey high pick-n-roll show of endless 3pt attempts. That is a bull offense and it wont work in the playoffs.
You drama queens can knock Ben all you want. What he just did will probably influence the entire aspect of the team for the playoffs in a good way. None of this perimeter crap, goto the paint. Get it into Ben, let him pass out of the post, or let him make his move. Make the other team respect his offensive presence. Not that he is going to light it up, but at least respect the option.
Because if the other team doesnt respect his presence, they will learn to. He is athletic enough to beat any center on the 1st step and goto the rack hard.
I think that was his point. End of thread. No big deal.
you know threads like this never end...
Ok. Then, you go out there and change it with your skill, your play, your leadership and you set examples. You don't refuse to play. That's chicken , no matter who you are, no matter who you play for. You can't change anything on the bench.Nah, I think folks would rather hope that the wheels are coming off or that Flip is losing the team or something.
Ben almost NEVER makes waves, and when he does, it's a sign that he's not satisfied with the team play. Like if they're down 3-1 in a series against the Magic, or routinely giving up double-digit leads in the first half, f'rinstance.
Last edited by pache100; 04-10-2006 at 10:37 AM.
only one thing really bugs me about it: if you're pissed at your teammates, why vent on your coach? Ben looked tired out there; flip wanted to get him some rest for down the stretch; what's the problem? I honestly never expected this kind of behavior from Ben - it's something I'd expect someone like Stephon Marbury to do, not him.
He's the team captain, and his refusing to go back in the game was detrimental to the team. It was a mistake, one that might have cost his team a W, especially without both Sheed and Rip.
He wants to be more involved on offense; fine, but teams are treating him the way they treat Shaq, putting him on the FT line to make him earn those points, and I think that's contributed to his teammates hesitating in giving him the ball. It is what it is.
I think he should apologize to Flip; he shouldn't have shown such blatant disrespect like that, but like Ben said, past is past, and as long as nothing like this happens again, I'll take it as a one-time, frustration-created thing they'll forget quickly.
---ben wallace is ben wallace, he will do whatever it takes to get a win, and he is emotional guy as well. (I know something abut that). It just happens. Now wityh 22 boards he showed what he is about
Right on the money with the Marbury comment. I agree with everything you said there.
I think he should apologize to Flip; he shouldn't have shown such blatant disrespect like that, but like Ben said, past is past, and as long as nothing like this happens again, I'll take it as a one-time, frustration-created thing they'll forget quickly. [/QUOTE]
And, you know, I don't even really have a problem with him/anyone having some kind of exchange with his coach; in fact, there probably ought to be a lot more of that, it might help curb misunderstandings and letting them get all blown out of proportion and festering. But...you don't do it like that. You don't do it in public, in front of the world, being televised internationally. That's what was wrong for me. It hurts you, it hurts your team, it hurts the game, it hurts the league, it hurts your coach, and it hurts your family. You save that for the lockerroom, or you ask the coach to dinner or for a drink. You just do not pitch a three-yr-old temper tantrum in a fish bowl like that. Ben Wallace makes waayyy too much money to be using kindergarten/sandbox tactics to make a point. And he's waaayyyy too smart. He was wrong, he needs to apologize for it to his coach and his teammates, and then everyone needs to move on.
I agree, too, that if this is an isolated incident, everyone should just forget about it. Otherwise, the Pistons are going to degenerate into the new Pacers. And that would be truly sad. NO ONE wants to see that happen.
Problem is, that might not have gotten him a win. Then what? Who would remember the 22 boards then? That is no excuse for a grown and very well-paid man behaving this way.
---ben wallace is ben wallace, he will do whatever it takes to get a win, and he is emotional guy as well. (I know something abut that). It just happens. Now wityh 22 boards he showed what he is about
I do not care "what ifs".
I this still after a loss they would know he was there to prove something. He just respodned to his behave back in Orlando game - what do you need more?
It is not like he is doing that constantly like Rodman did in SA and blew everything just like that. I'm sure Ben wouldn't do that.
Correct me if I'm wrong Pistons fans
He didn't prove anything except that he was being an ass at the moment. He has admitted that he went about it the wrong way and was wrong to do that in a game and that it won't happen again (even though NONE of that makes what he all right or acceptable in any way). That's ok with me. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and we'll see.
I'm sorry you need Pistons fans to validate your opinion.
I agree with that idea to a certain point, except that it should be Rasheed in the paint. If Ben touches the ball in the fourth quarter of a close game I foul him before he uses any of that athleticism, which makes him a liability. If nobody has gotten Rasheed of the perimiter to this point in the season, I think the Pistons are in trouble.
Not to validate my opinion.
hehe they know Big ben better then me I suppose. I dont think he could do that permanently and that is what I wanted to validate.
Anyway everybody is sometimes an ass (or many are).
What he did wasn't that big of a crime you know. Good he is in the game and continues his great job he is doing out there. You don't want anything else after whta he did.
what a drama queen
True. I couldnt agree more. I almost always post some sarcastic comment on Rasheed during Pistons games. His ass should be in the paint.
BUT...like I was trying to say and maybe didnt articulate well enough. Get ben the ball early in the game and the shot clock. Get it to him in the post, back to the basket. Let him take 5-7 shots a game (not dunks, or followups, Im talking about shots coming off a post move, etc).
Now, when the clock strikes 4th quarter, the only time Ben should be touching the ball is a) on a rebound, offensive or defensive, b) on a followup flush of a teammates shot, c) off a steal, or d) on a block.
Thats it. Which I am sure Ben would agree with considering his DREADFUL ft%. God, if he could shoot 50-60%, this wouldnt be an issue. But he doesnt, so it is.
Think what youy want because he's our drama queen.
He sent his apology in the form of 22 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals and 2 blocks.
Apology accepted. Pick up and move on.
back-to-back beatdowns of playoff teams on National TV (and the Cavs have been on fire lately). Think his teammates got the message he was sending? It may have been a ty thing to do if you take it for face value, but I bet it's unfolding exactly how he wanted it to. This may be just the boost the Pistons need heading into the playoffs.
The team playing well and winning and Ben not getting fined is definitely a good way for it to turn out, but you can't possibly be suggesting that this was what he had in mind all along.
Ben blew up tonight hit three of four free throws.
and to think this thread almost died.
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