Pop: The playoffs weigh heavily in our decision making.

[spursistan]

Pop coached a terrible series, but from those comments on the bench, major changes are coming on that front..I'm almost sure Diaw/Mills will be gone..this is reminded of his subtle dig at Splitter not being able to say healthy in the exit interviews of last season..

[K...]

The 3rd scoring option was the bigger concern, whether that be TP, Patty, or Green. One of those guys puts together an entire offensive series, and those close games would've been won, series over in 5

TD is the last offensive option of the starting 5, and Manu played floor general all year. If we saw them overextend themselves this series, it was because the younger guys were playing like . They weren't the reasons for the elimination.

How do people expect to replace the bbIQ those two give the team? Pau? Who plays floor general for the second unit?

fat head. 2nd units don't need captains, a coach calling plays will be fine. Manu was a luxury. Unless we get fresh talent in the bench Manu is like holding the keys to a rusted Rolls Royce.

[UZER]

Pop coached a terrible series, but from those comments on the bench, major changes are coming on that front..I'm almost sure Diaw/Mills will be gone..this is reminded of his subtle dig at Splitter not being able to say healthy in the exit interviews of last season..

I just hope they don't replace old guys with more old guys. Pop loves him some old guys because he's a lazy ass.

[K...]

Anyone who says "I'd like to see Parker go" is wasting space in this world. WE'd all like to see him not get old but a contract is a contract and he by all accounts is not going to retire. Trades and salary dumps by themselves are totally stupid. Discussing PArker in a legitimate trade (like the Durant scenario) is fine but a blanket statement about parker leaving is a waste of our intelligence.


Chinook is absolutely right, this is a basketball team not a freaking Kobe style retirement package.

You can disagree with Chinook that the Big TOSB two may not be done, but you can't argue with the Big two's actual decision, and the Fact that the PAFTO would be seriously stupid for not taking any better talents in their places.

[K...]

This off season is a big one. The decision to reload vs rebuild is going to be hotly debated if we continue to slide down the conference charts.

We don't just need talent, but we need talent that matures within two years. Otherwise it's just stalling off the rebuild.

[SAGirl]

Pop coached a terrible series, but from those comments on the bench, major changes are coming on that front..I'm almost sure Diaw/Mills will be gone..this is reminded of his subtle dig at Splitter not being able to say healthy in the exit interviews of last season..

I had forgotten about that, so true and they traded him b4 they knew whether or not LMA would join us. In retrospect, they wanted the cap for LMA, but in his absence another healthy big would have been ok, in that case going after the big fish this offseason, but they could not afford another season of Splitter injuries.

Now your statement also reminds me of an interview where Pop states that one of the things he liked of LMA b4 he got him on the team was: his durability, playing 36-37 minutes for Portland night after night, and him having a huge burden, how he was reliable in that regard: as a guy who would show up all regular season... compare that with Mr. Boris Diaw.

[cutewizard]

BACK TO BASICS always helps:

1. We need a third offensive force........a stable, consistent, productive offensive force....

2. We need a true PG who can lead the whole team, and match wits with the best PGs of the league.....

3. We need a starting center who can play very good defense and is an excellent rebounder.....

------------------------------------------------------------------

Fill up these holes first, and the rest naturally follows.......

[cutewizard]

that okc series , hmmmp

im depressed,

[Proxy]

fat head. 2nd units don't need captains, a coach calling plays will be fine. Manu was a luxury. Unless we get fresh talent in the bench Manu is like holding the keys to a rusted Rolls Royce.

nah, people don't seem to get how intelligent of a player Manu is.... or how good his anticipation and playmaking still are even at this age. I doubt we see another player that goes about the game the way he does. It's like people see the errant pass and focus on it, and then overlook the hockey assists and leadership he brings. People listen to him and TD. You think LMA acclimates himself this quickly without Timmy?

Not justifying that either isn't old as balls, but people talk about them retiring as if they were the main variable for the team losing, and that's what I disagree with. Where was the 3rd consistent scorer? parker if we're going by payroll, but he did jack , played like a 40 year old. Green at least plays great defense.

Kyle's a smart player, but he obviously doesn't have the compe iveness that Manu has. He's more passive, and maybe that changes the more experience he gets, but I doubt it. It seems like a personality trait, not something you can necessarily coach.

[TheGoldStandard]

BACK TO BASICS always helps:

1. We need a third offensive force........a stable, consistent, productive offensive force....

2. We need a true PG who can lead the whole team, and match wits with the best PGs of the league.....

3. We need a starting center who can play very good defense and is an excellent rebounder.....

------------------------------------------------------------------

Fill up these holes first, and the rest naturally follows.......

That third offensive force should come in the form of an athletic PG who can shoot and drive and can match up with PGs defensively. They don't have to be able to be world beaters on defense but at least be able to stay in front of PG's and not get burned or caught in no mans land on switches.

A replacement Center will be a little bit of a chore. Might have to buy out Milutinov's contract or draft a big who will be in the lineup this year or try to go cheap.

[KenziE]

not gonna watch, or at least not now, but if that's what pop really said and that's how he really feels about andre miller... then he should've given him some ing playing time. i feel the same way about him and was on board for him starting over parker.

at 40 he outplayed parker in an elimination game.

yep why all the praise why not IN PLAY him and see how he holds up !!!

[tmtcsc]

For what they are being paid, I'd like to see both Tim and Manu back. There are roles for them. , Manu was terrific in spots as was Tim. The big difference is who to put on the court with them. They need younger guys to carry the load while they provide the veteran experience. If they go, they go.

The Spurs can almost completely retool at this point. Besides LA and KL, I think everyone should be up for discussion. The biggest move would be ridding the roster of TP and his salary. Perhaps someone would be willing to take him for a couple of young, unproven pieces.

I would love to see the Spurs send TP and Diaw to Portland for CJ McCullom but that is a pipe dream. The Spurs need a 2 guard that can light it up.

[DMC]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/?tmd=1

Nice interview by Pop on media availability. Talks about the team, LMA, Andre Miller, etc.

What struck me: He said he wishes Andre Miller was 30... he's a natural leader on the floor, natural feel for the game, does a lot of things you can't coach.
Kawhi: Terrific player, still getting better.
LMA: Pleased with him. He's adapted faster to the team in his first season than anyone else they have ever brought on board.

On the loss: the OKC big men Adams and Kanter were very hard to deal with, they should have won games 2 and 5 which were very close, and a call here or there going their way, or a shot could have turned them in our favor.

On the team cons ution moving forward: Performance during the regular season vs. the playoffs? The playoffs weigh very heavily on Pop's decision on who to keep moving forward and what they need to add to the team. He stated the team has historically relied a lot in their bench. When they have won championships they always had more guys in the team and in their bench playing well than the opponent. He mentioned the team this season didn't have the depth to stay in games and that was the reason they lost games 2 and 5 for example.

Tim and Manu: He might have been joking, or exaggerating, but he said whatever they decide is what the team will do. Basically, it's up to them if they want to retire or not and not something that Pop advises them on at this stage.
-----------------------
For us as fans to speculate and consider:
All the guys who underperformed in the playoffs, specially the veterans. Diaw and Patty, D.West? I think one tends to be tougher in evaluating NBA champions and veterans than youngsters and rookies, bc youngsters and rookies do not bring you a championship their first time with the team, but they do need to rebuild the bench, IMO.

What do you guys think?

I think Spurs need to be able to get small and fast, not hybrid small with people like Slowmo and Diaw or West. I like Patty, he was just overwhelmed with the duty to carry the 2nd unit because other guys weren't performing. I'd keep Patty and maybe Simmons, not sure on him just yet. Bonner needs to go, he's doing nothing but sitting and taking up a roster spot. I think Boban needs to go. He's probably cheap, but he won't be for long. Some team will overpay him. I can't see him integrating into the system without a complete overhaul of his mindset. That's something only someone like Phil Jackson could pull off like he did with Shaq when Shaq played like he was about 6" shorter and 60lbs lighter than he was. Once he realized he was unstoppable, he was unstoppable. I don't think Boban could be unstoppable, but I think he could contribute a lot more than he has if he didn't have so many fundamental flaws in his game. Still, he's better than Jeff Errors. Miller and Martin, both need to be gone I think although Martin might be better at PG than I realize, if he gets minutes and training camp. I just haven't seen it elsewhere.

If Tim, Manu, West and Bonner leave, that's a big chunk of the lineup. We're going to have to get real minute guys in, not role guys. We need at least one guy who can get his own shot off the dribble and run the point if needed. I don't know that we need a true PG though. I'd like to see Manu return and run the point.

[DMC]

For what they are being paid, I'd like to see both Tim and Manu back. Their are roles for them. , Manu was terrific in spots as was Tim. The big difference is who to put on the court with them. They need younger guys to carry the load while they provide the veteran experience. If they go, they go.

The Spurs can almost completely retool at this point. Besides LA and KL, I think everyone should be up for discussion. The biggest move would be ridding the roster of TP and his salary. Perhaps someone would be willing to take him for a couple of young, unproven pieces.

I would love to see the Spurs send TP and Diaw to Portland for McCullough but that is a pipe dream. The Spurs need a 2 guard that can light it up.

Here's the problem with Tim and Manu coming back: You now have a wall you cannot get over. They aren't going to find magic in the playoffs. If anything they'll regress and younger, athletic teams will take advantage of them. If you have them back and sitting the bench, it's useless. We need guys who get better as the season progresses, those two likely get worse. If you're content with just making the playoffs then having them back will benefit us in that regard, but their age means they are basically lithium ion batteries, they run a capacity and then just one day cannot run. It can be at the break or at the playoffs, you just don't know. We don't have guys they can "spell", they'd be the ones needing subs.

I say let them come back if they want to, it's a no brainer, but don't haggle if they want to retire. It would be nice to see them stick around to work with the guys in the training camp and as trainers and coaches. They have Spurs corporate knowledge that is invaluable.

[DMC]

For what they are being paid, I'd like to see both Tim and Manu back. Their are roles for them. , Manu was terrific in spots as was Tim. The big difference is who to put on the court with them. They need younger guys to carry the load while they provide the veteran experience. If they go, they go.

The Spurs can almost completely retool at this point. Besides LA and KL, I think everyone should be up for discussion. The biggest move would be ridding the roster of TP and his salary. Perhaps someone would be willing to take him for a couple of young, unproven pieces.

I would love to see the Spurs send TP and Diaw to Portland for McCullough but that is a pipe dream. The Spurs need a 2 guard that can light it up.

I'd love to get CJ McCollum, but like you said, not going to happen. What team is going to trade ther MiP for our LiP?

[ElNono]

I suppose this means Bonner is coming back

[spursistan]

I suppose this means Bonner is coming back

blue font aside, u really think Pop is jettisoning all vets in one fell swoop?

I'm expecting one of Bonner/Miller to stick around if TD/Manu hang'em up..

[gambit1990]

i'm with everything tmtcsc has had to say in this thread.

i would back bring td & manu without blinking. their player options for next year: less than $9 million combined.

yep why all the praise why not IN PLAY him and see how he holds up !!!

it's baffling. andre miller even played well for us in the regular season. can dictate the tempo... great court vision...

[tmtcsc]

I'd love to get CJ McCollum, but like you said, not going to happen. What team is going to trade ther MiP for our LiP?

The only hope would be that Portland considers McCollum a Lillard clone and that the two of them are redundant when on the floor together. Why not get a veteran like TP to come in and move Lillard to the 2 guard spot where he can light it up. They could also add versatility with Diaw coming off the bench. Portland has a nice roster but its a little too young I think. I also like the way Henderson played in the playoffs for them.

[gambit1990]

speaking of the trailblazers... a small ball line up of kawhi/aminu/la would be nice.

[SAGirl]

nah, people don't seem to get how intelligent of a player Manu is.... or how good his anticipation and playmaking still are even at this age. I doubt we see another player that goes about the game the way he does. It's like people see the errant pass and focus on it, and then overlook the hockey assists and leadership he brings. People listen to him and TD. You think LMA acclimates himself this quickly without Timmy?

Not justifying that either isn't old as balls, but people talk about them retiring as if they were the main variable for the team losing, and that's what I disagree with. Where was the 3rd consistent scorer? parker if we're going by payroll, but he did jack , played like a 40 year old. Green at least plays great defense.

Kyle's a smart player, but he obviously doesn't have the compe iveness that Manu has. He's more passive, and maybe that changes the more experience he gets, but I doubt it. It seems like a personality trait, not something you can necessarily coach.

Manu is a HoF player. We will set ourselves up for disappointment comparing Kyle to him. It's even unfair to compare Kawhi to Tim and the gap between them is closer... so let's avoid that. But, there can be very smart players who need no comparison to Manu, like Boris. Kyle is his own guy, and he's not in his prime, nor anywhere near it. Keep in mind he is 22. He could have been entering the draft just now this summer.

He is compe ive and has won a lot of games in his young career but perspective? He was basically a rookie this season, he had to adapt his game to play off the ball, a notable area of weakness for him, and his game was never that of a pure scorer. He was Mr. triple double. He won games by putting out a balanced stat line of 15 pts, 6 assits, 8 rbs, 2 stls a block, the whole package, many plays that don't show in the stat sheet either, while handling the ball for the team and directing teammates, unlike other wings or PF who score off the ball, he was doing his scoring on his own and creating for others. That stat line stayed constant in college, d'league and even summer league (less assists in summer league, and more scoring since not many guys could score there and it seemed Spurs wanted him to get his own).

Anyways, it's remarkable how consistent he can be when allowed to make plays with the ball. He's had high assist games even this season while playing mostly off the ball. What other wings we have with 7 assists in a game in his first full season with the team? I don't think even Kawhi has had 7 assists in a game this season, and Kyle has a lot less opportunities for this kind of output.


There have been flashes of that kind of game, just not enough consistency, but lets face it, he had an irregular role. The bench revolved around Manu, after him Patty and then Boris or DWest. It wasn't tailored for Kyle, and it didn't ask of him to be that guy. This was not the season for him to be that guy. Let's consider all the time it took for Kawhi to even become that guy for us. We only saw Kyle's real game in garbage time, or in games Pop rested others like the video I posted above. The same thing happened to Kawhi earlier in his career... which is why Kyle produced more with irregular lineups with rookies like Simmons and Boban.



What that tells you is that he's capable of doing more than spotting up in the corner, but when all the veterans were healthy and playing together all he was asked to do was stand in a corner. Kawhi wasn't even scoring that much as a rookie either and when the system wasn't tailored for him and he didn't have the freedom to make plays with the ball on his own, ppl accused him of being passive, inconsistent, etc. So, let's keep in mind that this season wasn't about Kyle. Our fortunes were not supposed to depend on his performance. He was even struggling to get a roster spot to begin with, as you would expect from a youngster in a veteran team. He was basically getting in Pop's dog house for a single mistake early in the season, typical youngster treatment from Pop. At times he appeared to have lost his spot completely and his confidence, then he played a bunch of different lineups with anything from spots 1-4.

He didn't really even get regular playing time until injuries started creeping up on Timmy, Manu, Boris, and Pop started resting guys. I think at some point late in the season Pop realized they needed him to do more than he initially thought bc of the decline, injuries, real issues with the vets that reared in the postseason so Pop pushed him and fed him as many minutes at that point as he could, but it might have been too late. He still has a lot to work to do to improve his game, both his shot, confidence and his strength specially, but its unfair to compare him to Manu and come to the conclusion he doesn't have the BBIQ to be a leader. I think out of all his characteristics that is probably the one that the Spurs value the most, and they sought to develop that in SL and all through the season. He's just really young, playing with a lot of veterans, he's had the luxury to defer to those veterans who have allowed him to grow and develop, the same as they allowed Kawhi to develop. Unlucky for him, and unlike Kawhi, the HoF veterans fell off a cliff while he was in his first season with the team basically. Imagine if that had happened in Kawhi's first season. He would not have been ready to carry a bunch of geriatrics and neither can Kyle. If the entire bench is ting the bed, he's not going to be able to lift them. He wasn't ready for that, but that doesn't mean he will never be ready.

The HoF players might be at the real end of their careers and they can't carry him or any youngsters anymore. They are now at the point where they need those youngsters to carry them. They certainly needed Kawhi to carry the SL and Kyle and others will have to do more for the bench in the future. That is just the truth. No longer should your bench revolve around Manu, and no longer should the big rotation depend on Tim.

[Down Under]

No doubt Bertans will be over. Don't think Milutinov is ready. Same with Jean-Charles.

[cjw]

The Spurs really didnt give Raymac a whole lot of time and they gave away this seasons 2nd round pick.

They can probably go buy a second rounder around where they were picking (59) for around what they paid Jimmer to not play for the team. Pretty meaningless compensation if you ask me.

[tholdren]

Manu is a HoF player. We will set ourselves up for disappointment comparing Kyle to him. It's even unfair to compare Kawhi to Tim and the gap between them is closer... so let's avoid that. But, there can be very smart players who need no comparison to Manu, like Boris. Kyle is his own guy, and he's not in his prime, nor anywhere near it. Keep in mind he is 22. He could have been entering the draft just now this summer.

He is compe ive and has won a lot of games in his young career but perspective? He was basically a rookie this season, he had to adapt his game to play off the ball, a notable area of weakness for him, and his game was never that of a pure scorer. He was Mr. triple double. He won games by putting out a balanced stat line of 15 pts, 6 assits, 8 rbs, 2 stls a block, the whole package, many plays that don't show in the stat sheet either, while handling the ball for the team and directing teammates, unlike other wings or PF who score off the ball, he was doing his scoring on his own and creating for others. That stat line stayed constant in college, d'league and even summer league (less assists in summer league, and more scoring since not many guys could score there and it seemed Spurs wanted him to get his own).

Anyways, it's remarkable how consistent he can be when allowed to make plays with the ball. He's had high assist games even this season while playing mostly off the ball. What other wings we have with 7 assists in a game in his first full season with the team? I don't think even Kawhi has had 7 assists in a game this season, and Kyle has a lot less opportunities for this kind of output.


There have been flashes of that kind of game, just not enough consistency, but lets face it, he had an irregular role. The bench revolved around Manu, after him Patty and then Boris or DWest. It wasn't tailored for Kyle, and it didn't ask of him to be that guy. This was not the season for him to be that guy. Let's consider all the time it took for Kawhi to even become that guy for us. We only saw Kyle's real game in garbage time, or in games Pop rested others like the video I posted above. The same thing happened to Kawhi earlier in his career... which is why Kyle produced more with irregular lineups with rookies like Simmons and Boban.



What that tells you is that he's capable of doing more than spotting up in the corner, but when all the veterans were healthy and playing together all he was asked to do was stand in a corner. Kawhi wasn't even scoring that much as a rookie either and when the system wasn't tailored for him and he didn't have the freedom to make plays with the ball on his own, ppl accused him of being passive, inconsistent, etc. So, let's keep in mind that this season wasn't about Kyle. Our fortunes were not supposed to depend on his performance. He was even struggling to get a roster spot to begin with, as you would expect from a youngster in a veteran team. He was basically getting in Pop's dog house for a single mistake early in the season, typical youngster treatment from Pop. At times he appeared to have lost his spot completely and his confidence, then he played a bunch of different lineups with anything from spots 1-4.

He didn't really even get regular playing time until injuries started creeping up on Timmy, Manu, Boris, and Pop started resting guys. I think at some point late in the season Pop realized they needed him to do more than he initially thought bc of the decline, injuries, real issues with the vets that reared in the postseason so Pop pushed him and fed him as many minutes at that point as he could, but it might have been too late. He still has a lot to work to do to improve his game, both his shot, confidence and his strength specially, but its unfair to compare him to Manu and come to the conclusion he doesn't have the BBIQ to be a leader. I think out of all his characteristics that is probably the one that the Spurs value the most, and they sought to develop that in SL and all through the season. He's just really young, playing with a lot of veterans, he's had the luxury to defer to those veterans who have allowed him to grow and develop, the same as they allowed Kawhi to develop. Unlucky for him, and unlike Kawhi, the HoF veterans fell off a cliff while he was in his first season with the team basically. Imagine if that had happened in Kawhi's first season. He would not have been ready to carry a bunch of geriatrics and neither can Kyle. If the entire bench is ting the bed, he's not going to be able to lift them. He wasn't ready for that, but that doesn't mean he will never be ready.

The HoF players might be at the real end of their careers and they can't carry him or any youngsters anymore. They are now at the point where they need those youngsters to carry them. They certainly needed Kawhi to carry the SL and Kyle and others will have to do more for the bench in the future. That is just the truth. No longer should your bench revolve around Manu, and no longer should the big rotation depend on Tim.

You're a re

[K...]

Boom there it is....the definitive Kyle Anderson argument.

I don't think many people here underestimate Duncan and Manu's value,

I think we differ in what the decision is going to be like. We don't know what the stakes are until actual moves are made. Will there be a point where keeping manu and duncan impedes our ability to find and sign good players?


Imagine a choice....use 10m to resign the big Two (and vet min the rest), or spend 10m on new players? Which is the better choice?