Spurs need another perimeter defender.

[MaNu4Tres]

I mean, he's gotten better. But he's really lost a lot of time to injury. And I don't think Asvel is doing a good job developing him, since that's not their priority.

I don't agree with this notion at all.

It's not on the team to develop him, it's on LJC to develop LJC -- the hardwork and time he's willing to put in when no one is watching. Spurs have gone above and beyond giving him the instructions and blueprint to becoming a better player. They've flown him in multiple times a year since he's been drafted, worked him out, given him a plan on action to improve. Teams can only do so much, it's up to the players to go above and beyond with their work ethic to keep improving.

For example, when Kawhi first was drafted and had a few workouts with the Spurs before the lock-out happened, Chip gave him a plan to improve his jumper -- over the next 3 months during the lock-out Leonard came back a much improved shooter. Why is that? Because Kawhi worked his ass off.

Without Hustle, a plan doesn't mean anything and without a plan, hustle doesn't mean anything. Both components are equally important in all aspects life and success. And so far it doesn't look like LJC has the hustle. Has nothing to do with Asvel. Spurs actually keep close tabs with J.D Jackson and the coaching staff because Parker is the owner.

[Chinook]

I don't agree with this notion at all.

It's not on the team to develop him, it's on LJC to develop LJC --

No, it's on the team. They have a staff for that very reason. I think just assuming Jean-Charles is lazy is a terrible line of reasoning. Asvel wants to win games, so they aren't going to care about developing a guy who's going to leave them. But the Spurs are looking to get returns out of their investments, and they have no track record of success in developing a guy overseas.

[MaNu4Tres]

No, it's on the team. They have a staff for that very reason. I think just assuming Jean-Charles is lazy is a terrible line of reasoning. Asvel wants to win games, so they aren't going to care about developing a guy who's going to leave them. But the Spurs are looking to get returns out of their investments, and they have no track record of success in developing a guy overseas.

I couldn't disagree more.

Plus, players don't develop in the games-- that's absurd. The development happens in the summers, and time off the court in practices and in practices when no one is watching. That's when players can work on their weaknesses and improve. They can't work on things in games.

[MaNu4Tres]

No, it's on the team. They have a staff for that very reason. I think just assuming Jean-Charles is lazy is a terrible line of reasoning. Asvel wants to win games, so they aren't going to care about developing a guy who's going to leave them. But the Spurs are looking to get returns out of their investments, and they have no track record of success in developing a guy overseas.

I'm not assuming. One thing I live my life by is in the long run, actions and time never lies. If he doesn't turn into an NBA player it won't be because of Asvel, it will be because Jean-Charles never got good enough or never worked hard enough. It's really that simple. And so far, he's been disappointing.

[Chinook]

I couldn't disagree more.

Plus, players don't develop in the games-- that's absurd. The development happens in the summers, and time off the court in practices and in practices when no one is watching. That's when players can work on their weaknesses and improve. They can't work on things in games.

Of course players develop in games. That's why the d-league exists. Do they JUST develop in games? No. But it's clear that LJC isn't going to get better in France. And what you keep ignoring is that he would just be the next in a long line of players who haven't improved overseas. Bertans hasn't even really improved since he was drafted, and he's their best chance for a success story. They haven't just drafted a bunch of lazy players.

[Chinook]

I'm not assuming. One thing I live my life by is in the long run, actions and time never lies. If he doesn't turn into an NBA player it won't be because of Asvel, it will be because Jean-Charles never got good enough or never worked hard enough. It's really that simple. And so far, he's been disappointing.

Yes, you're assuming. LJC is obviously not lazy, or else he would never have recovered from his injuries. But as we all saw in the summer league, he's even more mobile than he was when he was drafted. And again, he's gotten better. I really don't know what you have been looking at to assume otherwise. But no one in recent Spurs history except maybe Green has made themselves into an NBA player on their own.

[SAGirl]

SA needs a 7 footer that can rebound and anchor the defense tbh

This I think this is our #1 need, after that depth for the bench, then the PG spot. I am a bit pessimistic on the PG. I tend to think Pop stays pat with Tony and Patty bc both are Pop favorites. If Tim/Manu retire Pop will want Tony for continuity and leadership, specially if we get rookies in (Bertans and this season's draft pick + anyone else from the foreign stashes or a new project). We would have more young players than we have had in recent seasons and too many new players in the system all at once a Pop nightmare, no way dies he want to combine that with breaking in a new PG. We could pick up a more defensive minded PG in the draft to give different looks.

I would bring LJC over but he notably didn't want to go the dleague route and preferred to stay in Asvel. He doesn't seem bent on coming over, unlike Bertans, whose agent has been making a fuss about him.

[MaNu4Tres]

Of course players develop in games. That's why the d-league exists. Do they JUST develop in games? No. But it's clear that LJC isn't going to get better in France. And what you keep ignoring is that he would just be the next in a long line of players who haven't improved overseas. Bertans hasn't even really improved since he was drafted, and he's their best chance for a success story. They haven't just drafted a bunch of lazy players.

Lol that is absurd. Players put their skills to the test in games and develop confidence maybe -- but they don't work on things and develop their skills in games. True development occurs outside of games, in the summers in the off-season, in the gym before and after practice when no one is watching.

Bertans has busted his ass to get his game back and some every time he's tore his knee. Bertans has work ethic -- he would have been in the NBA a year ago if he didn't tear his knee a second time.

Javtokas was on his way to the NBA -- Spurs did a great job with him til his motorcycle accident.

Ian Mahinmi was developed into a good NBA player.

Tiago Splitter was brought in often after he was drafted and developed from 2007-2009.

Bertans is the next one.

LJC is the only 1st round draft pick Spurs have drafted and stashed overseas that hasn't made the improvements needed within first 3 years to become an NBA player. That can still change, but time is ticking. I blame it on his injury to a degree but most of it is on him. Spurs have one of the best development programs in the entire NBA.

[spursistan]

Outside Kawhi, Spurs haven't gotten any meaningful/productive playoffs minutes from their draftees since George Hill...that's 8 years of whiffing now...

Free agency not going to solve everything for this team as it moves on from Big 3 era..need another Danny Green find; another squeezing from reclamation projects in the Diaw mold..etc..

[SAGirl]

We have bigger problems than our Perimeter D. Our big rotation features the corpse of Timmy, Aldridge, West & Diaw. Aldridge is the only guy who can actually hustle and compete against other good rebounders. Not doubting Timmy's greatness, father time catches up with everyone eventually. West/Diaw don't have the size/athleticism to compete with other legit rebounders.

Our depth and production in our guard rotation is abysmal. Green, Parker, Manu, Mills. Two of those players are over 34 and the two that aren't, can't play as primary ball-handlers. Our offense is being run by corpses and we have basically ZERO athleticism in our guards.

If we're building around Kawhi/Aldridge/Green then the pieces around them need to achieve three things: Spacing, Rebounding, Ball-Handling. The rest will work itself out. Our offense stagnates so badly against tough defenses because we're lacking in those departments. Bad spacing, low second-chance points and lack of players who can create for others = incredibly streaky offense. We live and die by Iso basketball because as ugly as it is: it's still our best option at this point. The problem is we don't have OTHER options, so when the Isolation game isn't clicking, we turn to absolute garbage.

There's only 2 things we need to do this off-season:

1. Get a legitimate center
2. Upgrade our guard rotation

+1 good points.

[r0drig0lac]

SA needs a 7 footer that can rebound and anchor the defense tbh

Spurs need Noel, but that is not happening

[Chinook]

Lol that is absurd. Players put their skills to the test in games and develop confidence maybe -- but they don't work on things and develop their skills in games. True development occurs outside of games, in the summers in the off-season, in the gym before and after practice when no one is watching.

You keep using this greeting-card explanation. It's false. Coaching matters. Game-time matters. The Spurs have lapsed in that area recently, but even they give young guys minutes for them to get up to speed an hone their skills.

Bertans has busted his ass to get his game back and some every time he's tore his knee. Bertans has work ethic -- he would have been in the NBA a year ago if he didn't tear his knee a second time.

And LJC tore up his knee and came back with a better game. Bertans hasn't really added new skills. If anything, he's gotten worse. He went from being Euro Durant to being Novak.

Javtokas was on his way to the NBA -- Spurs did a great job with him til his motorcycle accident.

Spurs paid for his surgery. But Robertas was great before his injury and great after. The Spurs didn't make him. If anything he's another strike against stashing players.

Ian Mahinmi was developed into a good NBA player.

I'm almost convinced you don't watch the NBA if you think the SPURS developed Ian. He has become a good player after 10 years in the league. After he left the Spurs after his third season, he was still a fifth big. Credit Dallas and Indy for making him a starter.

Tiago Splitter was brought in often after he was drafted and developed from 2007-2009.

Had nothing to do with the Spurs. Players like Splitter, Pekovic, Mirotic and Saric were elite prospects who dropped because they were bound in Europe for years. Tiago became a great European player, but he would have been one anyway. Had he been American, he would have been at lottery pick (yes, everyone said it leading up to the draft).

Spurs have one of the best development programs in the entire NBA.

I don't doubt they put money in. I think in general, teams are realizing that stashing players doesn't work. Unless they are already elite prospects, they are only VERY rarely becoming starters. And if they are elite prospects, they are usually worth bringing over immediately. But as far as successes on stashes, I'd say the Nuggets have the Spurs beat handily right now.

[NameLess Scrub]

Evan Turner - and let Chip teach him to shoot the 3.

Take a big chunk of the cash the Spurs were supposedly going to throw at Durant (who won't come here), and throw it at Hasan Whiteside. Then hire Bonner to wear a suit and teach him how to read and stuff.

Also use Timmy to teach him restraint so he doesn't get upset and fight.

[DAF86]

Spurs need an explosive guard that can get to the line, hit the three and create looks for others. That is, clearly, the Spurs biggest need, imho.

[MaNu4Tres]

You keep using this greeting-card explanation. It's false. Coaching matters. Game-time matters. The Spurs have lapsed in that area recently, but even they give young guys minutes for them to get up to speed an hone their skills.



And LJC tore up his knee and came back with a better game. Bertans hasn't really added new skills. If anything, he's gotten worse. He went from being Euro Durant to being Novak.



Spurs paid for his surgery. But Robertas was great before his injury and great after. The Spurs didn't make him. If anything he's another strike against stashing players.



I'm almost convinced you don't watch the NBA if you think the SPURS developed Ian. He has become a good player after 10 years in the league. After he left the Spurs after his third season, he was still a fifth big. Credit Dallas and Indy for making him a starter.



Had nothing to do with the Spurs. Players like Splitter, Pekovic, Mirotic and Saric were elite prospects who dropped because they were bound in Europe for years. Tiago became a great European player, but he would have been one anyway. Had he been American, he would have been at lottery pick (yes, everyone said it leading up to the draft).



I don't doubt they put money in. I think in general, teams are realizing that stashing players doesn't work. Unless they are already elite prospects, they are only VERY rarely becoming starters. And if they are elite prospects, they are usually worth bringing over immediately. But as far as successes on stashes, I'd say the Nuggets have the Spurs beat handily right now.

I disagree with a lot of this. I'll just agree to disagree.

Have a lot of work to do today.

[Kawhitstorm]

Spurs need a backup SF.

Wes Johnson is the best perimeter defender on the market and won't cost a lot.

That perimeter defender probably needs to play the PG spot

They also need a top PG imo

Evan Turner - and let Chip teach him to shoot the 3.

You know, there is a guy that checks out all those boxes: Nic Batum aka the French Andre Iguodala.

He can play point forward, rebound, defend, shoot 3s & play alongside Danny/Kawhi. The hard part would be convincing him to come off the bench ala Iggy but maybe his boy LMA, captain Porker & Udoka could help convince him as long as he gets his money: MAX.

There were rumor of PATFO going after Batum when he was an RFA in 2012 when the SF spot was still a question mark w/ rookie Kawhi & Stephen Jackson splitting minutes: http://www.csnnw.com/article/sources...-nicolas-batum

According to Chris Haynes of Comcast SportsNet Northwest, the Spurs will make a "hard push" to land Batum's services.

It makes sense.

As Haynes correctly points out, the Spurs had been prepared to draft Batum in 2008 until the Houston Rockets surprised everyone by picking the swingman.

"I thought for sure I was headed to San Antonio," Batum told Haynes. "I was talking with Tony (Parker) and the guys and then Houston drafts me out of nowhere."

"The Spurs play well together. They share the ball and do everything the right way," said Batum

[jjktkk]

Here's my wish list, heavy emphasis on wish: Athletic 7 footer, who can defend, and board. Stretch 4, small ball 5, who can defend. A George Hill type, defensive minded combo G, who can defend both G spots. A legit, backup, SF. Spurs probably won't be able to plug all the holes on their roster, but just to be able to improve the teams overall athleticism, would be a nice start.

[K...]

Outside Kawhi, Spurs haven't gotten any meaningful/productive playoffs minutes from their draftees since George Hill...that's 8 years of whiffing now...c..

This is a stupid standard to care about. We've drafted outside the lottery and stashed picks; you can't expect much return there. We also brought in free agent rookies like mills and baynes. Both those guys play in the playoffs.

I'm.sorry but in addition to being emo I know consider you dumb.

[timtonymanu]

I could see Batum coming here with the Udoka/LMA/Parker connection. Not really a fan though. He probably would command more money anyways.

[Brian Windhorst]

all these threads could be merged into a bring back COJO thread

[cd021]

isn't Conley a good defender? Having a PG that can legitimately cover his position would be a big help, would allow Leonard to rest a bit more on defense against a least threatening offensive optio while Green takes the tougher assignment.

[doobs]

The defense is fine. Spurs just need one or two playmakers on offense, preferably shooting guards or small forwards. Got real tired of the dribble, dribble, one pass, ISO offense.

Kawhi or Parker can run the offense from the point. LMA can pick & pop and play in the low post. What's missing are legitimate scoring threats on the wings that move well off the ball, can penetrate, dish, hit threes, etc.

[Hoops Czar]

You know, there is a guy that checks out all those boxes: Nic Batum aka the French Andre Iguodala.

He can play point forward, rebound, defend, shoot 3s & play alongside Danny/Kawhi. The hard part would be convincing him to come off the bench ala Iggy but maybe his boy LMA, captain Porker & Udoka could help convince him as long as he gets his money: MAX.

There were rumor of PATFO going after Batum when he was an RFA in 2012 when the SF spot was still a question mark w/ rookie Kawhi & Stephen Jackson splitting minutes: http://www.csnnw.com/article/sources...-nicolas-batum

Yes, he checks all those boxes except the one about the Spurs having a backup SF on the roster, much to everyone's chagrin. KA might be total garbage but, he's all but guaranteed a rotation spot and there isn't a snowball's chance in of Pop giving up on a 1st round draft pick after only 2 years.

[K...]

Yes, he checks all those boxes except the one about the Spurs having a backup SF on the roster, much to everyone's chagrin. KA might be total garbage but, he's all but guaranteed a rotation spot and there isn't a snowball's chance in of Pop giving up on a 1st round draft pick after only 2 years.

Ka probably has enough trade value. I think the coaching staff might be confused about his ability to pay point forward or pf, They might take a bullet a la Georgie hill, and move him..

[GSH]

Basketball is still a big man's game. Ultimately, OKC beat the Spurs because they have three legit big men and the Spurs, for all practical purposes, had none. The Spurs got beat in the middle. And I expect the Thunder's success in this post-season to kick off a new big man arms race.

In Game 7 of the Raptor/Heat series, they were crediting the improvement of Bismack Biyombo to him working with Patrick Ewing. The Spurs, to my knowledge, have never "developed" a big man in that way. I said early in the season that the Spurs should bring Fabbs in to work with Boban, and especially to teach him the PnR. I still think so.

I know this will piss off the people who are in love with all things Spurs. But the Spurs, under Pop, have never done a lot to "develop" players. That's sort of the flip side of their incredible W/L record during the Pop era, and all the years they've gone without re-building. There's just not a lot of room for players based on future potential. They have to be able to produce today - tomorrow at the latest.

As for stashing players, I've always hated it. The draft is a talent infusion, and teams that don't get full value from their picks suffer a slow, steady talent drain. There have been some very good players who went late in the first round, and well into the second round. The Spurs committed to a strategy of draft-and-stash, and lost any possibility of landing any of those players. All things considered, I think their overall talent pool (and trade value) would have been higher if they had focused on drafting players, rather than drafting stash-type players. One of the reasons they did that was because they brought back near-intact rosters, and wanted to bring in vets to fill the remaining spots, so they drafted guys who they knew wouldn't be available for several years, when they might have room for them. I think they would have been better off trading picks for future-year picks, or trying to bundle a few to move up a few places in the first round.

I told RC that repeatedly, until he got that damn restraining order.