Spurs need another perimeter defender.

[Chinook]

I disagree with a lot of this. I'll just agree to disagree.

Have a lot of work to do today.

I don't mean to sound like I'm taunting you, but it's obvious you haven't been keeping up with the Spurs' prospects. That's fine, but you are assuming character traits about them that make no sense. And no, they haven't had a single player come from overseas and contribute who wasn't already an accomplished player or talented prospect. There are FAR more examples of guys who haven't panned out than those who have, and it's almost offensive that you dismiss all of those based on their characters.

[SAGirl]

Basketball is still a big man's game. Ultimately, OKC beat the Spurs because they have three legit big men and the Spurs, for all practical purposes, had none. The Spurs got beat in the middle. And I expect the Thunder's success in this post-season to kick off a new big man arms race.

In Game 7 of the Raptor/Heat series, they were crediting the improvement of Bismack Biyombo to him working with Patrick Ewing. The Spurs, to my knowledge, have never "developed" a big man in that way. I said early in the season that the Spurs should bring Fabbs in to work with Boban, and especially to teach him the PnR. I still think so.

I know this will piss off the people who are in love with all things Spurs. But the Spurs, under Pop, have never done a lot to "develop" players. That's sort of the flip side of their incredible W/L record during the Pop era, and all the years they've gone without re-building. There's just not a lot of room for players based on future potential. They have to be able to produce today - tomorrow at the latest.

As for stashing players, I've always hated it. The draft is a talent infusion, and teams that don't get full value from their picks suffer a slow, steady talent drain. There have been some very good players who went late in the first round, and well into the second round. The Spurs committed to a strategy of draft-and-stash, and lost any possibility of landing any of those players. All things considered, I think their overall talent pool (and trade value) would have been higher if they had focused on drafting players, rather than drafting stash-type players. One of the reasons they did that was because they brought back near-intact rosters, and wanted to bring in vets to fill the remaining spots, so they drafted guys who they knew wouldn't be available for several years, when they might have room for them. I think they would have been better off trading picks for future-year picks, or trying to bundle a few to move up a few places in the first round.

I told RC that repeatedly, until he got that damn restraining order.

+1
A lot of truth bombs in your post and I wholeheartedly agree. It's been an amazing ride and I only witnessed the tail end if it but it was amazing how they were able to sustain it without in reality really developing. Kawhi and Danny gave the Spurs a second wind and from there on they dropped the ball continuing to replenish young talent, passing up on guys they could have gotten in the first round who turned out nice roleplayers in the league, to stash. Sometimes the guys they stashed were not even best players available to us by any measure, they were just drafted bc Spurs didn't want to carry their spot, their salary, and Pop the burden to find that guy minutes that allowed him to really develop which he didn't have roster spots for he thought.

I know you and others don't like him, but you better believe they are high on Kyle and love the young man. Tony said in in an interview when Kyle was getting dog housed for a single mistake (later Simmons joined him, no surprise) Tony said that it was really hard for them bc they were not allowed to make mistakes and learn from them since the team was in championship competing mode. That the team drafted Kyle at all when we were looking to repeat, notoriously bringing in the roster to 15 spots told me a lot. Spurs also kept Simmons in a year they really were in championship or bust mode, which tells me they are still high on his potential too. Whether they can realize that is another matter.

The bad aspect of passing up on drafted talent and not develop them locally is that they then spent roster spots on very low ceiling or no ceiling whatsoever players like Daye and Ayers. That could have been LJC or someone younger. It could have been Jamychael Green too, who they worked with since he went undrafted and a player they liked. They could have just drafted J.Green that season. They chose guys like Deshaun Thomas who are really low ceiling and not NBA caliber (6'6" PF, doesn't take a genius to know he would never be rotation caliber player) just bc he agreed to be stashed overseas. For all we know they didn't even want that guy ever to come over.

LJC they did want yo come over, so we should have just brought him in when he was 19 or 20. He could have been a player by now.

[look_at_g_shred]

Man i want Avery Bradley on this team

[GSH]

I know you and others don't like him, but you better believe they are high on Kyle and love the young man.

You know what my real problem with KA is? I can't count the number of times, over the years, that I've gotten excited over a "tweener". And every time I swear I won't do it again. The players are all so good in the NBA that guys without a defined role always wind up being second-rate at everything. The VERY few exceptions are so obviously exceptional that everyone knows them when they see them. Kyle isn't one of those guys.

What the is KA, anyway? A 6'9" point guard? A "point-forward"? A legit NBA small forward? As long as the Spurs are looking at him as a guy who can potentially do several things, he's going to be a disaster on the court. Why? Because that story always ends the same way.

By the end of the season, I was pretty impressed with his rebounding skills. Personally I think he should focus on the large end of his skill set, and be a specialist rather than a generalist. Hit the weight room, and learn everything he can from Boris Diaw. Improve his 3P shooting. And any ball-handling skills he has are just a bonus for when he has the right match-up, or to help bring the ball up the court when the PG is getting harassed. He's a good passer, but he's not a guy who is going to facilitate the offense. Pursuing that pipe dream is just going to hurt the team, and prevent Anderson from focusing on the areas where he can be successful.

No... that's not the only thing I hate about KA. I hate it that he's listed as a SF, but he's worse than useless on a fast break. If he's got a 3-step clear path to the basket, there's no guarantee that he's going to be able to get to the rim quickly enough to score. If he's part of a 2-on-1, they might as well just pull the ball back out and run their offense. Those are easy points that you never get back.

[ernest787]

Some of you are delusional. I live in Dallas and listen to the local sports talk and how they all wished they drafted and developed like the Spurs do. The team has been a le contender since 1998. There are years they have been more so than other, but when you are trying to put together championship teams, you have to sacrifice somewhere.

The Spurs aren't a team that has been able to afford taking on a huge tax bill. So they have gone after players that fit specific needs to fill out a team to compete for a le and have had to draft and stash at times to make that work. That said, we have a player on our team right now that isn't 25 years old yet and people legit discuss if he's the best two way player in the league. How did the Spurs acquire him? By taking a player late in the draft that turned out to be a really solid PG and had enough value that the Spurs were able to trade up and draft the future of the franchise.

Sure I'd love the Spurs to be stock full of players in their 20s right now that were ready to step in and take over, but I'll settle for a 24 year old beast to build around over the next couple years.

[TD 21]

Probably going to be LJC.

There's been zero evidence to suggest he's in the immediate plans and he's getting to the point now where it's fair to question if he ever will be. Even if he were, there's zero chance of him being a rotation player any time soon.


With how reliant they now are on Leonard offensively, they definitely need another perimeter defender, particularly at point guard. They also need said point guard to be able to make plays, push Parker and be capable of at least being a stop gap starter at some point.

I hate to say it, but as I said in another thread a few days ago, so long as Engelland thinks he can be turned into a respectable shooter, it wouldn't surprise me if they go after Carter-Williams. I've never been a fan, but he checks those boxes, they'll be hard pressed to do better and his stock is low enough that he might be able to be had for Mills, 29 and possibly Simmons.

[Kawhitstorm]

Yes, he checks all those boxes except the one about the Spurs having a backup SF on the roster, much to everyone's chagrin. KA might be total garbage but, he's all but guaranteed a rotation spot and there isn't a snowball's chance in of Pop giving up on a 1st round draft pick after only 2 years.

I don't think PATFO will max out Batum/Fournier/Clarkson types nor would they be willing to come off the bench. Most likely scenario:
-Go after Horford & offer him the max.
-Offer MLE to Courtney Lee.
-Trade Diaw/Patty for Teague. (replacement for Horford/Teague)

Unlikely to happen:
-Tony getting traded (See Bonner)
-Maxing out Conley (35 mill invested PG)
-Signing an elite wing (won't come off the bench)
-Pau signing for the vet min like D-Worst

[Silver&Black]

Spurs need an explosive guard that can get to the line, hit the three and create looks for others.

I think 90% of NBA teams could use "an explosive guard that can get to the line, hit the three and create looks for otheres".

[MaNu4Tres]

There's been zero evidence to suggest he's in the immediate plans and he's getting to the point now where it's fair to question if he ever will be. Even if he were, there's zero chance of him being a rotation player any time soon.


With how reliant they now are on Leonard offensively, they definitely need another perimeter defender, particularly at point guard. They also need said point guard to be able to make plays, push Parker and be capable of at least being a stop gap starter at some point.

I hate to say it, but as I said in another thread a few days ago, so long as Engelland thinks he can be turned into a respectable shooter, it wouldn't surprise me if they go after Carter-Williams. I've never been a fan, but he checks those boxes, they'll be hard pressed to do better and his stock is low enough that he might be able to be had for Mills, 29 and possibly Simmons.

Agree about LJC, no idea how or why Chinook thinks he can be a rotation player next year..

Conley for Tony Parker in a sign and trade is another that makes sense for both teams, even though I'd be very surprised to see Spurs trading Tony. However, for Stein and others saying the Spurs are going after Conley makes it pretty real to me.

Grizzlies still have some win-now pieces on the roster -- which is why Tony Parker for two years and 30 million makes some sense for the Grizzlies to a degree, considering the alternatives on the market.

If Spurs doctors and front office are not concerned w/ Conley's health, they'll pursue him. Therefore, I'm not too worried IF they do go after him. Conley, if healthy, would fit tremendously next to Leonard and Green.

Whether they can sign and trade for Conley or not, I'd still test the Hawks with a Diaw/Mills for Teague trade.

[TD 21]

Agree about LJC, no idea how or why Chinook thinks he can be a rotation player next year..

Conley for Tony Parker in a sign and trade is another that makes sense for both teams, even though I'd be very surprised to see Spurs trading Tony. However, for Stein and others saying the Spurs are going after Conley makes it pretty real to me.

Grizzlies still have some win-now pieces on the roster -- which is why Tony Parker for two years and 30 million makes some sense for the Grizzlies to a degree, considering the alternatives on the market.

If Spurs doctors and front office are not concerned w/ Conley's health, they'll pursue him. Therefore, I'm not too worried IF they do go after him. Conley, if healthy, would fit tremendously next to Leonard and Green.

Whether they can sign and trade for Conley or not, I'd still test the Hawks with a Diaw/Mills for Teague trade.

I don't feel Conley is a virtual no shot, like Durant, but I do think he's a long one. Though Spurs material, I think he wants to stay a Grizzly; he just wants them to sell him on a vision of a path to contention in the near future.

Short of that, I've got to think the Pacers would hold appeal. They've needed a legit point guard for a long time, he's from their, it's the East and they've got two good building blocks, in George and Turner.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't feel Conley is a virtual no shot, like Durant, but I do think he's a long one. Though Spurs material, I think he wants to stay a Grizzly; he just wants them to sell him on a vision of a path to contention in the near future.

Short of that, I've got to think the Pacers would hold appeal. They've needed a legit point guard for a long time, he's from their, it's the East and they've got two good building blocks, in George and Turner.

I think Grizzlies are out of it. I don't think he's going back from the few things I've read. Agree with Pacers though, they'll definitely be appealing to some degree. Spurs have a shot, and I think they're ready to move on from Tony (either by trade or a reduced role by trading for and starting Teague) -- especially if/when Tim and Manu retire.

[SAGirl]

You know what my real problem with KA is? I can't count the number of times, over the years, that I've gotten excited over a "tweener". And every time I swear I won't do it again. The players are all so good in the NBA that guys without a defined role always wind up being second-rate at everything. The VERY few exceptions are so obviously exceptional that everyone knows them when they see them. Kyle isn't one of those guys.

What the is KA, anyway? A 6'9" point guard? A "point-forward"? A legit NBA small forward? As long as the Spurs are looking at him as a guy who can potentially do several things, he's going to be a disaster on the court. Why? Because that story always ends the same way.

By the end of the season, I was pretty impressed with his rebounding skills. Personally I think he should focus on the large end of his skill set, and be a specialist rather than a generalist. Hit the weight room, and learn everything he can from Boris Diaw. Improve his 3P shooting. And any ball-handling skills he has are just a bonus for when he has the right match-up, or to help bring the ball up the court when the PG is getting harassed. He's a good passer, but he's not a guy who is going to facilitate the offense. Pursuing that pipe dream is just going to hurt the team, and prevent Anderson from focusing on the areas where he can be successful.

No... that's not the only thing I hate about KA. I hate it that he's listed as a SF, but he's worse than useless on a fast break. If he's got a 3-step clear path to the basket, there's no guarantee that he's going to be able to get to the rim quickly enough to score. If he's part of a 2-on-1, they might as well just pull the ball back out and run their offense. Those are easy points that you never get back.

Well you won't be convinced until you see it with your own eye, but I owe you a response bc I respect you. I just don't expect to change your mind. With him it's see to believe.

I'll try to keep it simple, he's a team player and will defeat you through team play. Like Pop said, he's a guy that makes everybody better bc he can find them for easy shots in scoring positions. He has the court vision and that's an innate talent.

Kyle's game is not about him, it's about his teammates and how he can set them up for easy shots or find them. He needs an athletic wing partner like Simmons, I think Simms was specifically retained bc the two guys complement each other. He also needs a big who can score inside bc he's capable of drawing the help and create a more efficient shot for someone else, other than for himself.

In UCLA he had Zach Lavine and Norman Powell, freak athletes to run a fast break and he was super successful finding them through passes. In the dleague and SL he had Simmons, who got no shortage of easy baskets out of lobs Kyle set him up for or finding him cutting. In both teams he had shooters. Mills and Bertans would fit nicely around Kyle and Simmons. If they could defend they would be fine, which is why Pop's foci with both was basically defense. It was the one non-negotiable for Pop per RC explicit words. For Kyle to get in the rotation, he had to improve defensively and I believe the same goes for Simmons.

Kyle will create shots finding guys in scoring position. You would think that's nothing but look at our own offense. There are easy shots we miss out on often bc of inadequate quality passing in certain lineups. You always leave points on the board if you can't find your top dogs/scorers in easy spots. Those are shots that would not be there for any of those guys if you didn't have guys who could find them and Manu and TD, arguably our best passers are retiring, Diaw has a foot out the door too. So Spurs had to replenish that void and Kyle is his own guy, nit a replica to any as those guys have no equal.

From there on, Spurs were not going to take the ball out of Manu's hands to give it to him but they will in the future bc they need someone and he has that talent. He's ran very efficient offenses if you allow him to make plays with the ball but that's not how he was played this season, so CoA forgives you bc he's very young and new at this level + adapting to this level takes time for everyone. He's learning to play off the ball too, the Spurs system is not designed for any one player to be so ball dominant, Pop wants the balk to move, but your elite passers are able to find scoring opportunities early in transition b4 defenses are set.

Ultimately, you focus too much on what he's not and not on how he can help the team. Remember this next season: he's a guy that will defeat others through team play. He can run a fast break well enough if someone runs it along with him looking to be set up. UCLA were 12th in O Rt and pace in the country with him running the show, but you didn't watch him there or in the dleague. He needs guys like Simmons to set up which is why I think Spurs know what they are doing with him it will just take time to see it develop bc he's not in a system that uses his skills well when he is with Manu, nor does he complement Manu well bc Manu needs shooters and scorers of his own and he's a reluctant shooter himself (something I agree he needs work on).

[dbestpro]

I don't think Spurs fans realize how lucky their team is to have two elite perimeter defenders. Most teams can't say anything like that.

That is one of the big problems with the NBA. No defense learned. No defense allowed. No defense played.

[palangi]

Spurs need Noel, but that is not happening

A trade back into the second round to take prince Ibeh might be an option.

that and go sign Joakim Noah.

[Kawhitstorm]

Agree with Pacers though, they'll definitely be appealing to some degree.

Conley is from Indiana & they tried to trade G.Hill for Teague so they are definitely looking for an upgrade at that position although he hasn't been that much better than Hill the past 2 seasons.

[r0drig0lac]

I think 100% of NBA teams could use "an explosive guard that can get to the line, hit the three and create looks for otheres".

[024]

Sure it matters. Livio isn't an NBA player. That's why Spurs didn't bring him over last year. Not much has changed from his development over the past 300 days either.

Neither is Kyle Anderson but that doesn't seem to stop Pop from playing him.

[K...]

Neither is Kyle Anderson but that doesn't seem to stop Pop from playing him.

kyle is nba brains, college body, Livio is NBA body, college level brains. Kyle is still growing, Livio though.....

[rasuo214]

Kyle Anderson needs to bulk up so he can play more of the 4.

IMO realistic FA targets are guys like Barnes, Mahinmi maybe take a chance on some like Gordon/Green/Stephenson.

Obviously go after Conley and Horford as well (Durant is a pipe dream).

[YGWHI]

isn't Conley a good defender? Having a PG that can legitimately cover his position would be a big help, would allow Leonard to rest a bit more on defense against a least threatening offensive optio while Green takes the tougher assignment.

I'd like to see Conley in a Spurs uniform but Pop won't bench Parker for him. Parker's contract is too expensive -in term of Spurs' cap- to have him coming off the bench.

Anyway, we didn't lose this series because our perimeter defense. It was more on the lack of rebounding, and good performances from our role players.

A young, athletic PF/C who can rebound will be an upgrade over DWest and Boris. And decent shooting-guard on the bench wouldn't kill us...

[rasuo214]

I'd like to see Conley in a Spurs uniform but Pop won't bench Parker for him. Parker's contract is too expensive -in term of Spurs' cap- to have him coming off the bench.

Anyway, we didn't lose this series because our perimeter defense. It was more on the lack of rebounding, and good performances from our role players.

A young, athletic PF/C who can rebound will be an upgrade over DWest and Boris. And decent shooting-guard on the bench wouldn't kill us...

Manu was making $10+m coming off the bench. So Parker's contract shouldn't be a big issue in determining whether or not he should come off the bench, especially with the cap increase.

[Namundy]

Harrison Barnes?

[Namundy]

Wow I didn't realize Batum was only 27. He would be great. Bazemore another potential guy?

[cjw]

The Spurs have two of the top defensive wings in the league. Let's see if they can uncover another diamond in the rough like they did with Green who can also shoot.

Oh, and on Kawhi...


Players to have finished first or second in MVP voting and get DPOY in same year:
Kawhi (2016)
Dwight (2011)
Mourning (1999)
Hakeem (1993 and 1994)
Jordan (1988)

(Garnett was third when he won with Boston)


Multiple DPOY:
Eaton
Howard
Kawhi
Moncrief (the only non-big besides Kawhi)
Mourning
Mutombo
Hakeem
The Worm
Wallace

[cjw]

Wow I didn't realize Batum was only 27. He would be great. Bazemore another potential guy?

Is Batum $22.5 million per year to start off with and $96+ million over four years good?

Bazemore is also going to get paid eight figures or close to it.

Chances are Spurs won't have more than the MLE, so let's be realistic here.