1. The free agent class is pretty bad this year. Durant is definitely not leaving now. Conley will be 29 next season, Horford will be 30, Dwight... . Can you imagine the Spurs paying $26 million for any of those players? Biyombo will be overpaid ala Tristan Thompson. Decent prospects like Ezeli, Barnes, and Clarkson will be a restricted free agents and command an absurd amount of money. Some team will be stupid enough to throw near max money to try to pry them from their current teams. Who's left? Kent Bazemore? Batum?
2. Duncan and/or Ginobili may want to return. That will eat up a lot of cap space. No matter how much you don't want to believe it, if either Duncan or Ginobili wants to return, the Spurs won't say no (more importantly, the Spurs can't say no since the two have player options). Even if they don't return, the Spurs still need to replace them. There's a small chance Duncan and Ginobili opt out to return for the vet min but that can't be expected of them.
3. Boban should be re-signed. He will be a restricted FA but if the Spurs are already over the cap, other teams might be dissuaded from signing him since the Spurs will likely match. Boban looked like Yao Ming lite this year. Yao had a better understanding of the game and was actually more fluid but Boban is good enough to give the bench a powerful scoring punch. He has good footwork, fights for position in the paint, can get to the line, and can rebound. Look at these moves:
.
Even if Boban never develops into a starter, as a bench big, he should give the Spurs much needed scoring. Combined with Simmons looking like Tyreke Evans, the Spurs bench should look better next year as the two get more minutes.
4. Diaw can always be packaged with Anderson for a trade. If I understand this correctly, Diaw's contract is unguaranteed and Anderson's contract is technically an expiring one since his next year is a team option. That's around $8 million of salary to trade to a team that once to clear cap space and/or save money. For reference, Teague's contract is around $8 million, although I'm not sure if he's the best fit. Diaw can even be packaged with Mills for a $10 million contract.
5. If the Spurs stay over the cap, they can use the MLE on a player like Gasol or Plumlee. The Spurs can add a $8 million player through trade and sign a $5.6 million player. That's almost $14 million to work with. The Spurs can probably clear $14 million worth of cap space but that will depend on Duncan and Ginobili retiring, cutting Diaw, and letting Boban walk. Spurs can possibly clear more than $14 million but again, back to number 1, who are they going to sign?
Spurs can always take a risk by throwing stupid amounts of money at Clarkson, Ezeli, or Barnes. But I don't think that's the Spurs style even though I kind of want to see the Spurs gamble. And I definitely don't think they should throw the $26 million 4 year max at Conley, Horford, or Dwight. Spurs will be better off staying over the cap, make whatever moves they can, and develop whoever they can.
1. The free agent class is pretty bad this year. Durant is definitely not leaving now. Conley will be 29 next season, Horford will be 30, Dwight... . Can you imagine the Spurs paying $26 million for any of those players? Biyombo will be overpaid ala Tristan Thompson. Decent prospects like Ezeli, Barnes, and Clarkson will be a restricted free agents and command an absurd amount of money. Some team will be stupid enough to throw near max money to try to pry them from their current teams. Who's left? Kent Bazemore? Batum?
2. Duncan and/or Ginobili may want to return. That will eat up a lot of cap space. No matter how much you don't want to believe it, if either Duncan or Ginobili wants to return, the Spurs won't say no (more importantly, the Spurs can't say no since the two have player options). Even if they don't return, the Spurs still need to replace them. There's a small chance Duncan and Ginobili opt out to return for the vet min but that can't be expected of them.
3. Boban should be re-signed. He will be a restricted FA but if the Spurs are already over the cap, other teams might be dissuaded from signing him since the Spurs will likely match. Boban looked like Yao Ming lite this year. Yao had a better understanding of the game and was actually more fluid but Boban is good enough to give the bench a powerful scoring punch. He has good footwork, fights for position in the paint, can get to the line, and can rebound. Look at these moves:
.
Even if Boban never develops into a starter, as a bench big, he should give the Spurs much needed scoring. Combined with Simmons looking like Tyreke Evans, the Spurs bench should look better next year as the two get more minutes.
4. Diaw can always be packaged with Anderson for a trade. If I understand this correctly, Diaw's contract is unguaranteed and Anderson's contract is technically an expiring one since his next year is a team option. That's around $8 million of salary to trade to a team that once to clear cap space and/or save money. For reference, Teague's contract is around $8 million, although I'm not sure if he's the best fit. Diaw can even be packaged with Mills for a $10 million contract.
5. If the Spurs stay over the cap, they can use the MLE on a player like Gasol or Plumlee. The Spurs can add a $8 million player through trade and sign a $5.6 million player. That's almost $14 million to work with. The Spurs can probably clear $14 million worth of cap space but that will depend on Duncan and Ginobili retiring, cutting Diaw, and letting Boban walk. Spurs can possibly clear more than $14 million but again, back to number 1, who are they going to sign?
Spurs can always take a risk by throwing stupid amounts of money at Clarkson, Ezeli, or Barnes. But I don't think that's the Spurs style even though I kind of want to see the Spurs gamble. And I definitely don't think they should throw the $26 million 4 year max at Conley, Horford, or Dwight. Spurs will be better off staying over the cap, make whatever moves they can, and develop whoever they can.
June 22 & 30 will be very important. Then we'll know if Tim, Manu, and West are opting in and if Diaw's option is picked up.
Duncan sure looked like he knew it was his last game when he held up a finger to the OKC fans in Game 6, so clearing cap space looks like it's going to be forced onto the Spurs.
If the Spurs couldn't win a Championship with this team, do any of you really believe that the addition of players like Marvin Williams or Thomas Robinson will put them over the hump? So if they can't win it all next year, why piss around with half measures?
Clear cap space, and sign some cheap players so that they can clear more cap space the next season. Tank and get some ping-pong balls. You know that Tim and Manu aren't going to be around for the 17-18 season. Face the music, and re-build. Delaying the inevitable only makes things worse.
They have Kawhi, LMA, and Danny as a nucleus for 17-18. Jettison Diaw and West. Get Boban re-signed and give him enough minutes to see if he can become a legit NBA center. Play Anderson and Simmons, and bring up Cady. , re-sign Andre Miller and Kevin Martin for min deals. If one of the Spurs' stash players can finally come play, play the out of him the first year, for a change. Find a way to dump Tony's salary, and just take the ing hit on it. (Out of everything, that last one may be impossible.)
In 17-18 they would have a load of cap space to throw at a better class. And they would finally have a decent pick in the draft - maybe a second-rounder that would be good enough to snag a player. Maybe even get a second stash player on the roster. If the goal is always to win it all, then there's no point in pretending like there's hope for next season. One year of pain, and they could be back in the mix. But none of the suggestions I've been reading would be enough to fix what's broken by next season.
Obviously Tim's and Manu's decision about returning will have a massive impact on how the FO approach the offseason. If both return they'll try to use trades and exceptions to give them the best shot at a le run. Trades will be much easier this summer due to so many teams having cap space, so a smart FO can make impactful and creative decisions. And yes, if Tim/Manu return then chances of trading Tony go from 1% to 0%.
If they don't return basically all options will be on the table. They could try to create space to throw big money at someone they believe would compliment LMA and Kawhi, or they could be very conservative and avoid deals that would take from 2017's cap space. In such a case Diaw's contract would be good. I certainly wouldn't want non-difference makers like Thomas Robinson, Eric Gordon, etc. taking a dip into 2017's cap space.
If the Spurs couldn't win a Championship with this team, do any of you really believe that the addition of players like Marvin Williams or Thomas Robinson will put them over the hump? So if they can't win it all next year, why piss around with half measures?
Clear cap space, and sign some cheap players so that they can clear more cap space the next season. Tank and get some ping-pong balls. You know that Tim and Manu aren't going to be around for the 17-18 season. Face the music, and re-build. Delaying the inevitable only makes things worse.
They have Kawhi, LMA, and Danny as a nucleus for 17-18. Jettison Diaw and West. Get Boban re-signed and give him enough minutes to see if he can become a legit NBA center. Play Anderson and Simmons, and bring up Cady. , re-sign Andre Miller and Kevin Martin for min deals. If one of the Spurs' stash players can finally come play, play the out of him the first year, for a change. Find a way to dump Tony's salary, and just take the ing hit on it. (Out of everything, that last one may be impossible.)
In 17-18 they would have a load of cap space to throw at a better class. And they would finally have a decent pick in the draft - maybe a second-rounder that would be good enough to snag a player. Maybe even get a second stash player on the roster. If the goal is always to win it all, then there's no point in pretending like there's hope for next season. One year of pain, and they could be back in the mix. But none of the suggestions I've been reading would be enough to fix what's broken by next season.
I like this for several reasons:
1. I think Bertans might turn out a good NBA player. Looks like the real deal. Can't be sure with his fragile injury history and he seems slim but he's athletic, tall and a damn good shooter. At least he can fill the Marco role.
2. Find out whatever you can with Boban. He does have potential. Heck had POP done number 1 with Boban from day 1 (play him more outside of garbage time) instead of being committed to DWest (bc that salary he left! + we are all in for Manu & Tim last season!), who knows, maybe we don't have 67 wins but do have a better team at the end.
^^ This is also the thing with betting on young talent. These guys do get better with playing time and experience and you can have a better team come the postseason, than you did to start. Meantime the Spurs with so many over the hill players have been the opposite, failing 2 postseason in a row bc they were relying too heavily on too many old players (+Tiago who could never stay healthy.)
+We will be able to fill maybe one or two of the largest needs in FA, but not all. Some roleplayers need to be homegrown and they need to play real minutes to develop. They did the garbage time thing this season, but it's not enough. If you want players to help you in the postseason, they must be relied on to win games in the RS as well.
3. I know there are doubts with Anderson and Simmons but they may turn out to be NBA players after all too. Frankly KA played better without Ginobili-spot up shooting is not his thing (though it's something he needs to work on). Simmons OTOH wilted big time when asked to make plays with the ball. So despite all appearances to the contrary, there are more doubts with him in the end, but Pop liked them both enough to develop all season. One is still young enough to develop further, the other has enough athleticism and talent to get a second chance to see if he can improve those handles.
4. Cady I think was scheduled to join the team anyways and he's a worthy prospect, and there are projects like Ndoye that might be with a look too + our draft pick. It will be worth it to see who among this crew can turn into a roleplayer and whoever doesn't make it by season's end.
5. Tim Manu Dre Miller, all these geriatrics are there to coach this young crew, help them grow, not to carry them. But I think they retire. It wouldn't be a return to send them off in style. It would be a return bc they want to help these guys out. Maybe they say nah! It's time. Let Kawhi and LMA put on the big boy pants. Frankly it would probably be for the best to develop these two as leaders as well.
6. We might not even miss the playoffs (bc a team with Kawhi, LMA and Danny may be good enough to push us to a low seed, look at Portland), which would not make it a true tank, but Pop must really commit to develop, not his old schticks. I would get rid of Kmart bc he would undoubtedly end up eating time that should be spent in shooters like Bertans or SG like Simmons and he was cancerous. I don't think he made us better, but worse. Time that could have been spent developing a spine or some old fashioned balls into Anderson or Simmons was spent on that ty player. That was like watching these two get benched for Austin Daye. Really, no thanks!
5. Tim Manu Dre Miller, all these geriatrics are there to coach this young crew, help them grow, not to carry them. But I think they retire. It wouldn't be a return to send them off in style. It would be a return bc they want to help these guys out. Maybe they say nah! It's time. Let Kawhi and LMA put on the big boy pants. Frankly it would probably be for the best to develop these two as leaders as well.
Wishing for Tim and Manu to retire so you can enjoy the marvellous future of Cady Lallane, Youssou N'Doye, Davis Bertans, Simmons, etc.?
If the Spurs couldn't win a Championship with this team, do any of you really believe that the addition of players like Marvin Williams or Thomas Robinson will put them over the hump? So if they can't win it all next year, why piss around with half measures?
OKC kept a team that couldn't win a championship, or even get close to one, and they're doing quite well.
Clear cap space, and sign some cheap players so that they can clear more cap space the next season. Tank and get some ping-pong balls. You know that Tim and Manu aren't going to be around for the 17-18 season. Face the music, and re-build. Delaying the inevitable only makes things worse.
They have Kawhi, LMA, and Danny as a nucleus for 17-18. Jettison Diaw and West. Get Boban re-signed and give him enough minutes to see if he can become a legit NBA center. Play Anderson and Simmons, and bring up Cady. , re-sign Andre Miller and Kevin Martin for min deals. If one of the Spurs' stash players can finally come play, play the out of him the first year, for a change. Find a way to dump Tony's salary, and just take the ing hit on it. (Out of everything, that last one may be impossible.)
I believe everyone who'd expect a team with a top 5 and a top 15 NBA players on the roster to tank is beyond delusional. Wasting a year where Kawhi would have a legitimate chance to be MVP so you can develop the scrubs that LJC, Lallane, Bertans and Simmons are? Kawhi may be quiet but he won't stand for this. I don't think the Spurs will carry too many rookies and trying to develop them at the same time. I'll believe it when I see it.
In 17-18 they would have a load of cap space to throw at a better class. And they would finally have a decent pick in the draft - maybe a second-rounder that would be good enough to snag a player. Maybe even get a second stash player on the roster. If the goal is always to win it all, then there's no point in pretending like there's hope for next season. One year of pain, and they could be back in the mix. But none of the suggestions I've been reading would be enough to fix what's broken by next season.
Unless they sign bad players to contracts into 2017 cap space, the supposed one year of pain won't increase or decrease their chances of being a contender past 2017.
4. Diaw can always be packaged with Anderson for a trade.
5. If the Spurs stay over the cap, they can use the MLE on a player like Gasol or Plumlee.
1 - The free-agent class is not great for max players. But it's fine for everyone else. The Spurs should do all they can to lock in long-term deals before the summer of 2017.
2 - That is completely up to Manu and Tim. The Spurs gave them guaranteed options. If they opt out and retire, the Spurs HAVE to replace them, and they'll need cap space to do it.
3 - Completely conflicts with 5. The Spurs should use their cap space to give Boban a contract. In fact, if they want to keep him, they'll likely have a deal ready to be signed early on in the off-season, as he should want to play internationally.
4 - This is a weird point. Diaw and Anderson can get back a player making up to $12 Million, but they will count as salary to the other team. I'm sure any team would rather have cap space than take back Diaw, and if some teams don't think that, then the Spurs should dump him and use that cap space.
5 - As I said, this conflicts with 3. Boban coming back in your scenario is only guaranteed if the team commits to using the MLE to match offer sheets. The moment they use it on Gasol or Plumlee, Boban can sign a deal that the team is powerless to match. Going the over-the-cap route means the team chooses internal improvement over external, and I honestly don't feel like that's a good bet right now.
OKC kept a team that couldn't win a championship, or even get close to one, and they're doing quite well.
Well that's not disingenuous...
I believe everyone who'd expect a team with a top 5 and a top 15 NBA players on the roster to tank is beyond delusional. Wasting a year where Kawhi would have a legitimate chance to be MVP so you can develop the scrubs that LJC, Lallane, Bertans and Simmons are? Kawhi may be quiet but he won't stand for this. I don't think the Spurs will carry too many rookies and trying to develop them at the same time. I'll believe it when I see it.
OKC did that for years, and it's gotten them guys like Adams and Roberson. Kawhi has no business dictating personnel decisions, and I doubt he's going to "not stand for it" anyway. If Duncan and Manu retire, the Spurs have to take a step back and start rebuilding the bottom half of their roster. I think they can and should do work to fix the top too (I keep saying they should sign the best young starting-level player they can afford to add to their core), but I don't agree at all with the Spurs cutting prospects so guys like Martin and Bonner can hang around. The Spurs just aren't good enough for that anymore.
Unless they sign bad players to contracts into 2017 cap space, the supposed one year of pain won't increase or decrease their chances of being a contender past 2017.
The Spurs will become a contender again when they can recover their depth. So using a year to develop cheap prospects into rotation players makes sense. Again, that needs to be balanced with signing one second- or third-tier player. And I expect the team to still make the playoffs as a a fifth or sixth seed (because , they're better than teams like Portland even without that big free-agent signing). But 2017 cap space alone won't make them into a contender, and it certainly won't keep them there for long.
OKC did that for years, and it's gotten them guys like Adams and Roberson. Kawhi has no business dictating personnel decisions, and I doubt he's going to "not stand for it" anyway. If Duncan and Manu retire, the Spurs have to take a step back and start rebuilding the bottom half of their roster. I think they can and should do work to fix the top too (I keep saying they should sign the best young starting-level player they can afford to add to their core), but I don't agree at all with the Spurs cutting prospects so guys like Martin and Bonner can hang around. The Spurs just aren't good enough for that anymore.
OKC didn't tank, not once, not even when injured.I've probably misunderstood what you've meant, but if it's about developing draft picks then they got Adams and Robertson, while the Spurs got Kawhi, Tiago and Danny. I think the Spurs have done better overall in this regard. Don't see the Spurs taking a step back next season at all. They may not be as good if they lose leadership and intangibles, but I don't see it as a conscious plan. Forcefeeding minutes to low level talent like what they have in the pipeline won't turn these guys into capable rotational players. I get the 'see what they have' thinking but I don't believe for one second this will be the FO's future plan.
The Spurs will become a contender again when they can recover their depth. So using a year to develop cheap prospects into rotation players makes sense. Again, that needs to be balanced with signing one second- or third-tier player. And I expect the team to still make the playoffs as a a fifth or sixth seed (because , they're better than teams like Portland even without that big free-agent signing). But 2017 cap space alone won't make them into a contender, and it certainly won't keep them there for long.
I don't think the Spurs lost the series because of depth, they lost because of bad match-ups and because of Pop not bothering with adjustments. Also because a certain wheel may have fallen off.
The Spurs were very much a contender this season, they just weren't the favorites. I doubt it's depth they'll be after when constructing the team in the 2 summers ahead. If Manu and Tim retire, I think they'll try to get the best possible players they can surround Kawhi and LMA with and have a go and perhaps go after a bigtime FA next summer in a sort of a missing piece fashion. Developing a gang of 3 or 4 prospects, fringe ones at that, at the same time while having a legit MVP candidate on the team, I can't see them go with that, they've never done it. I'll believe it when I see it.
Duncan sure looked like he knew it was his last game when he held up a finger to the OKC fans in Game 6, so clearing cap space looks like it's going to be forced onto the Spurs.
Never know man. Maybe he was just acknowledging and appreciating the cheers. I think he goes 1 more year and realized this team might not get it all together in 1 season once they signed LMA.
Wasting a year where Kawhi would have a legitimate chance to be MVP so you can develop the scrubs that LJC, Lallane, Bertans and Simmons are?
Well that pretty much says it all. You're actually worried about Kawhi having a "legitimate chance to be MVP", as a goal of its own. I'm trying to discuss basketball, and you're into beauty pageants. There's no basis for discussion. You're on a totally different planet.
For the record, the purpose isn't to develop any of the guys you mentioned. The point is to take a year to clear significant cap space. The point is to get a talent infusion through the draft by getting a pick above 29 for a change. Using that year to figure out which, if any, of their bench and stash players are actually capable of playing in the NBA? That's just a bonus.
Unless they sign bad players to contracts into 2017 cap space, the supposed one year of pain won't increase or decrease their chances of being a contender past 2017.
Having enough cap space to sign a max or near-max player makes all the difference in the world. If you don't understand that - without being told? Like I said... no basis for discussion.
face it our team may be mediocre the next couple of years like the Spurs from 1991-1996.....were gonna have to rebuild and build around the Klaw, LMA, and ugh Green to contend with
the Ogies from Muskogee and the golden Shower dubs.
I believed our future was gonna be KL, CoJo, and Green.......so much for that
OKC didn't tank, not once, not even when injured.I've probably misunderstood what you've meant, but if it's about developing draft picks then they got Adams and Robertson, while the Spurs got Kawhi, Tiago and Danny. I think the Spurs have done better overall in this regard. Don't see the Spurs taking a step back next season at all. They may not be as good if they lose leadership and intangibles, but I don't see it as a conscious plan. Forcefeeding minutes to low level talent like what they have in the pipeline won't turn these guys into capable rotational players. I get the 'see what they have' thinking but I don't believe for one second this will be the FO's future plan.
OKC tanked in the sense that they've done with GSH is suggesting for years. They shied away from going all out to make their team into one that could win a le. They let guys develop because they didn't rush to spend on guys who were better at that moment. The Spurs did do something like that in 2010-2012, and it paid dividends. But they stopped doing it after that, and now they are left with very little depth and having to rely on unreliable players to compliment their core. So they'll have to do a ton of rebuilding with Tim and Manu potentially out the door. They won't be able to replace what those guys used to give with they money that they have. So they'll have to gain cheap value to make up for their expensive core.
I don't think the Spurs lost the series because of depth, they lost because of bad match-ups and because of Pop not bothering with adjustments. Also because a certain wheel may have fallen off.
Guys like Duncan and Manu WERE their depth. Those guys having bad series is a big factor in the Spurs losing. It used to be that those guys were the stars and the Medium Three, Neal, Mills, Baynes, etc. made up the depth. Now with the Big Three and Diaw in decline, they weren't able to provide that same level of support. And behind them is no one besides perhaps Boban and Anderson, so them leaving doesn't really help matters. Until they get a 5-9 that can support the stars, they are going to be paper tigers.
The Spurs were very much a contender this season, they just weren't the favorites. I doubt it's depth they'll be after when constructing the team in the 2 summers ahead. If Manu and Tim retire, I think they'll try to get the best possible players they can surround Kawhi and LMA with and have a go and perhaps go after a bigtime FA next summer in a sort of a missing piece fashion. Developing a gang of 3 or 4 prospects, fringe ones at that, at the same time while having a legit MVP candidate on the team, I can't see them go with that, they've never done it. I'll believe it when I see it.
Kawhi's not going to get anywhere near the MVP discussion if they decline, one way or the other. And they clearly don't care about Leonard getting that reward, because they could have just played him more minutes during the regular season to further his case. That's not how they roll. Teams have developed guys around stars before. Look at the Pacers last season. They have to do what's best for the team, and getting guys who can fill in the cracks now is the best they can do. Next summer, they can add another star, but they will still be paper tigers if they don't improve their depth. So why not do it this season?
Having enough cap space to sign a max or near-max player makes all the difference in the world. If you don't understand that - without being told? Like I said... no basis for discussion.
Eh, they should have a max slot no matter how they play this summer. Only way they can't is if they sign a guy with their cap space and then trade Diaw and Mills for another long-term contract. And I don't think they'll be anyone worth the full max in 2017 anyway unless Durant takes a one-and-one deal. Look at this list and tell me who (out of people who could leave their teams) is going to be worth a contract that's potentially priced at $150M/4: http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2017/
OKC tanked in the sense that they've done with GSH is suggesting for years. They shied away from going all out to make their team into one that could win a le. They let guys develop because they didn't rush to spend on guys who were better at that moment. The Spurs did do something like that in 2010-2012, and it paid dividends. But they stopped doing it after that, and now they are left with very little depth and having to rely on unreliable players to compliment their core. So they'll have to do a ton of rebuilding with Tim and Manu potentially out the door. They won't be able to replace what those guys used to give with they money that they have. So they'll have to gain cheap value to make up for their expensive core.
I see it slightly differently - OKC went all in last year when they matched Kanter's offer and when trading picks for Waiters. They've developed some talent on the go ( not 3 or 4 at the same time though ), but that's what the Spurs have been doing as well and have come up with much better value for it than OKC ever could. Spurs sacrificed some depth when signing LMA and also lost depth due to declining, like you've said, but when it comes to developing guys they've made great effort in the past 5 seasons - Kawhi, Danny, Tiago, CoJo, Baynes, Neal, Patty, even almost-out-of-the-league Diaw to 2014 finals Diaw. The main difference to what they have now, for me, is that the talent they have in the pipeline is fringe. , OKC hold the rights to Alex Abrines, who's a far bigger talent than anything the Spurs have stashed, and they've not yet brought him over. When talent is significant they've shown they can work such players into rotation ones, but when you have LJC, Lallane, Milutinov, this is not remotely similar. Even Bertans isn't anything special at this point but I admit he has the tools to become a decent roleplayer.
Guys like Duncan and Manu WERE their depth. Those guys having bad series is a big factor in the Spurs losing. It used to be that those guys were the stars and the Medium Three, Neal, Mills, Baynes, etc. made up the depth. Now with the Big Three and Diaw in decline, they weren't able to provide that same level of support. And behind them is no one besides perhaps Boban and Anderson, so them leaving doesn't really help matters. Until they get a 5-9 that can support the stars, they are going to be paper tigers.
OKC had Robertson and Waiters enter the season as a bit of laughing stocks, not really 5-9 kinda guys, but they've hit a purple patch at the right time and are playing 30-40 mins of great basketball against GS. Sometimes guys do that and step up. I'm not a fan of the 'if the Spurs had played other scrubs they would have won' theories, but Pop did little to find out any of this against OKC. Bottomline, I don't think the Spurs lacked 5-9 guys, it's just that they didn't step up like some of the same quality players for OKC and Cleveland have been doing, and part of this is on Pop for not having the team at their best after that 5 game home stretch in march.
Kawhi's not going to get anywhere near the MVP discussion if they decline, one way or the other. And they clearly don't care about Leonard getting that reward, because they could have just played him more minutes during the regular season to further his case. That's not how they roll. Teams have developed guys around stars before. Look at the Pacers last season. They have to do what's best for the team, and getting guys who can fill in the cracks now is the best they can do. Next summer, they can add another star, but they will still be paper tigers if they don't improve their depth. So why not do it this season?
That's exactly what I'm saying, it's just that I wouldn't wish these guys to be LJC on a 3 year contract or some developmental rookie for the sake of it. A nice trade, maybe a smart FA signing and they could still be a 50+ win team after Tim and manu retire. No need to semi-tank or sacrifice a 50+ win team for the chance to play some marginal talent for the sake of it.
Eh, they should have a max slot no matter how they play this summer. Only way they can't is if they sign a guy with their cap space and then trade Diaw and Mills for another long-term contract. And I don't think they'll be anyone worth the full max in 2017 anyway unless Durant takes a one-and-one deal. Look at this list and tell me who (out of people who could leave their teams) is going to be worth a contract that's potentially priced at $150M/4: http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2017/
Indeed. but then that GSH guy is on a totally different planet.
Eh, they should have a max slot no matter how they play this summer. Only way they can't is if they sign a guy with their cap space and then trade Diaw and Mills for another long-term contract. And I don't think they'll be anyone worth the full max in 2017 anyway unless Durant takes a one-and-one deal. Look at this list and tell me who (out of people who could leave their teams) is going to be worth a contract that's potentially priced at $150M/4: http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2017/
Yeah, I didn't want to write a dissertation, but nothing happens in a vacuum. You can't sign one max/near-max guy and fill out a roster with scrubs. You have to keep a little powder dry, and try to pick up a couple of journeymen in addition to the big acquisition. I've seen a lot of teams lose out on good second-tier players, because they were holding out to try and sign a max guy. I still say that throwing away cap space on stop-gap players will keep them in the first and second rounds of the playoffs, but nothing more.
I took a quick look at the list. That's always depressing, because the few guys who are really, really worth max money are well known, and they only rarely switch teams. (And with Kawhi and LMA, maybe the answer is two high-priced guys, but not a max player.) I didn't see Adams on the list. If I remember, he'll be restricted in 17-18, but the Spurs would be able to throw more at him than OKC could, I'm sure. They really, really need a legit C to go with Kawhi/LMA.
Missing the playoffs one year, and getting a Top-15 draft pick is a big deal, because you not only get what should (hopefully) be a legit player, but you get him for cheap for the length of his rookie contract. That helps balance the books some, too. I know a lot of people are interested in keeping streaks alive. The number of consecutive 50-win seasons, etc. The Dubs are in real danger of finding out just how little those kinds of records are worth.
Need to get younger and more athletic..spurs don't have to make a big splash in the FA market. They just need to get nice pieces to compliment KL and LMA. Also a scoring threat at the pg position would be nice.
I see it slightly differently - OKC went all in last year when they matched Kanter's offer and when trading picks for Waiters.
Yes, and they had the ability to do those things because they had good depth. Those weren't the guys I was talking about. I was talking about guys like Roberson, Ibaka and Adams, whom they developed into starters. They went all in after they had their depth established.
Spurs sacrificed some depth when signing LMA and also lost depth due to declining, like you've said, but when it comes to developing guys they've made great effort in the past 5 seasons - Kawhi, Danny, Tiago, CoJo, Baynes, Neal, Patty, even almost-out-of-the-league Diaw to 2014 finals Diaw.
First, I think I'm using the term "depth" differently than you are. I am talking about the 5-8 of the team, rather than the 9-12 that most people are talking about. When I mention the downgrade in the Spurs' depth, I don't mean that guys like Beli and Baynes aren't on the team -- not really. I mean that the Big Three aren't as good now as the Medium Three were a couple of years ago. The Spurs essentially need to find a new Medium Three, and that probably won't come with any significant free-agent signing.
Second, If you look at the guys you mentioned, you won't see anything beyond what the team can replicate now except maybe Tiago. Kawhi was a trade using a backup guard. Green was a d-league call-up. Joseph was a 29th pick. Baynes and Neal were undrafteds from overseas. Patty and Diaw were both min-level mid-season pickups. The Spurs haven't been good at finding those guys in a couple of years. Until they can do so, they aren't going to have the talent level they need to overtake other teams.
OKC had Robertson and Waiters enter the season as a bit of laughing stocks, not really 5-9 kinda guys, but they've hit a purple patch at the right time and are playing 30-40 mins of great basketball against GS. Sometimes guys do that and step up.
They took the next step to becoming rotation players. Spurs have no one who can do that except Anderson and Boban. Other guys can certainly play well, but you don't expect them to get better permanently.
I'm not a fan of the 'if the Spurs had played other scrubs they would have won' theories, but Pop did little to find out any of this against OKC. Bottomline, I don't think the Spurs lacked 5-9 guys, it's just that they didn't step up like some of the same quality players for OKC and Cleveland have been doing, and part of this is on Pop for not having the team at their best after that 5 game home stretch in march.
But who didn't step up? Leonard LMA and usually Green were there. So we're talking about players like the Big Three, West and Boris and then Patty. Those aren't guys were you just assume they'll be better next year. They may just be done, except Patty. Will LJC, Cady, Bertans, Nikola and 29 fare any better next year? Probably not. But you hope that one or two show you something, along with Anderson, Simmons and maybe Boban. You hope they do like Neal did in 2011 against Memphis, or Leonard in 2012, or Green in 2013 or Mills in 2014. None of those guys came in with us expecting them to be strong rotation players. People still act like Green is a poor NBA prospect. But you have to give guys the chance to compete for those spots, because you need them.
That's exactly what I'm saying, it's just that I wouldn't wish these guys to be LJC on a 3 year contract or some developmental rookie for the sake of it. A nice trade, maybe a smart FA signing and they could still be a 50+ win team after Tim and manu retire. No need to semi-tank or sacrifice a 50+ win team for the chance to play some marginal talent for the sake of it.
As I've said, I want the Spurs to get the best player they can using about $15 Million in cap space. I want that guy to be young and able to grow with Kawhi for six or seven years. They'll have a pretty good 1-4 then, and with Parker and Patty and maybe West back, they'll have a decent 1-8 or 1-9 if you count Anderson. They should be a playoff team. But the 10-15 needs to be young guys who can have a chance to get better. They shouldn't be in the mindset to have guys like Bonner or Martin or even Miller on the team. because "they're contenders and can't afford to give minutes to guys who aren't ready".
In 2013, the 10-15 of the roster (by total minutes) was De Colo, Bonner, Blair, Mills, Joseph and Baynes. Besides Bonner, those were all prospects or young guys who played or ended up playing bigger roles. This past season, the bottom six players who ended the season on the roster were Manu, Simmons, Boban, Martin, Bonner and Miller. That's a huge, huge difference in terms of the team's priorities. That's the difference between a team that grew into a champion and a team that's moribund.
First, I think I'm using the term "depth" differently than you are. I am talking about the 5-8 of the team, rather than the 9-12 that most people are talking about. When I mention the downgrade in the Spurs' depth, I don't mean that guys like Beli and Baynes aren't on the team -- not really. I mean that the Big Three aren't as good now as the Medium Three were a couple of years ago. The Spurs essentially need to find a new Medium Three, and that probably won't come with any significant free-agent signing.
That is what I have been saying. We were one playoff rotational player away from potentially being in the WCF. If West or Diaw stepped up. Heck even Mills. If Manu and TD retire, that is 2 more playoff rotation players you need to make up. We need one more guy that can do his job. Obviously a wing and we now have a hole in the middle with West and Diaw stinking it up, and on top of that you need to have insurance policies for Manu and TD. Are we going to bet down on Anderson and Simmons getting us the insurance policy on the wing or do we make a splash in free agent? And we obvious have a glaring hole at center or a hard working young pf. Then there are questions about Mills. Will he be a burden on us or will he come back to 2014 form? So the Spurs need to make moves, but they don't need to be big fish moves. If we trade or lose any combination of Mills, Manu, TD, Diaw, and West, they all need to be replace with a playoff ready player for any chance of a playoff success.
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To add, yeh if you lose Manu you can say well Anderson will have to fill in that role, and if we lose say West, we can say Bobon will have to fill in that role, but you are betting against the odds. We want Anderson or Simmons to take the next step, and if we keep Bobon to also take the next step, but all 3 are not proven NBA ready. This is why it is apparent we need to grab at least 2 playoff ready guys. Not vets, and not projects. But guys that have some experience, some athleticism, and are apparently 'over themselves.'
win in the regular season and lose in the 1st or 2nd round
We must have different definitions for the word mediocre. I'll stick with the dictionary version: "of only ordinary or moderate quality; not very good"
To me, that describes a team around .500 or worse that barely makes the playoffs or misses the playoffs altogether.
So the '91-96 Spurs were not mediocre, they were a good team, but not le-worthy.
And I think the Spurs for the next few seasons, barring something unforseen, will be at that level, too. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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. Can you imagine the Spurs paying $26 million for any of those players? Biyombo will be overpaid ala Tristan Thompson. Decent prospects like Ezeli, Barnes, and Clarkson will be a restricted free agents and command an absurd amount of money. Some team will be stupid enough to throw near max money to try to pry them from their current teams. Who's left? Kent Bazemore? Batum?
