Clearing Cap Space Will be the Wrong Move For the Spurs

[024]

1 - The free-agent class is not great for max players. But it's fine for everyone else. The Spurs should do all they can to lock in long-term deals before the summer of 2017.

2 - That is completely up to Manu and Tim. The Spurs gave them guaranteed options. If they opt out and retire, the Spurs HAVE to replace them, and they'll need cap space to do it.

3 - Completely conflicts with 5. The Spurs should use their cap space to give Boban a contract. In fact, if they want to keep him, they'll likely have a deal ready to be signed early on in the off-season, as he should want to play internationally.

4 - This is a weird point. Diaw and Anderson can get back a player making up to $12 Million, but they will count as salary to the other team. I'm sure any team would rather have cap space than take back Diaw, and if some teams don't think that, then the Spurs should dump him and use that cap space.

5 - As I said, this conflicts with 3. Boban coming back in your scenario is only guaranteed if the team commits to using the MLE to match offer sheets. The moment they use it on Gasol or Plumlee, Boban can sign a deal that the team is powerless to match. Going the over-the-cap route means the team chooses internal improvement over external, and I honestly don't feel like that's a good bet right now.

1. But which player would you want the Spurs to sign, and at what price?

2. I don't think we disagree here. I definitely think chances are at least Duncan returns and that'll fill $6.4 million in cap space.

3. Boban is restricted, can't the Spurs match any offer to re-sign him? At the very least, the Spurs need to extend the qualifying offer to keep him restricted, otherwise he becomes unrestricted and the feeding frenzy will begin.

4. Like I said, if I am understanding it correctly, Diaw can be cut and Anderson will be an expiring. Let's use Teague as an example. The Spurs trade Diaw and Anderson for Teague. The Hawks immediately waive Diaw and save $3 million right there and then. They get to test out Anderson for a year and maybe the Spurs throw in a second rounder. Now Teague has an expiring contract but there are more players out there that are on multi year contracts and other teams could save even more money. Can the Hawks dump Teague to a team that has salary space? Yes, but who knows what the other teams are doing.

5. I'm not certain how restricted free agents work with teams over the cap. But I've never heard of a team unable to match an offer sheet because they're over the cap. I would think the Spurs would be able to re-sign its own players and use the MLE as long as they stay over the cap.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

As I've said, I want the Spurs to get the best player they can using about $15 Million in cap space. I want that guy to be young and able to grow with Kawhi for six or seven years. They'll have a pretty good 1-4 then, and with Parker and Patty and maybe West back, they'll have a decent 1-8 or 1-9 if you count Anderson. They should be a playoff team. But the 10-15 needs to be young guys who can have a chance to get better. They shouldn't be in the mindset to have guys like Bonner or Martin or even Miller on the team. because "they're contenders and can't afford to give minutes to guys who aren't ready".

I agree with most of what you've said, the only difference being that I don't think the Spurs have quit finding and developing guys into rotation players, it's just that they've not had the same level of talent to work with. You have the late 1st round pick ( CoJo - Anderson ), the 2nd round prospect ( Blair - McCallum, who didn't pan out ), the international wildcard ( De Colo - Boban ), the d-league hopeful ( Danny - Simmons ), the bought out vet ( Bobo - Martin ). Like you said, it's the 3-5 guys ,the former big 3, that weren't good enough, and yet they still looked much better against OKC than GSW do. Spurs defended them really really well, while they get anything they want against GS.

I just don't think they Spurs have any of these depth guys, say 3-8, on the pipeline or that they're likely to draft and develop them in time to surround LMA and Kawhi with them, as LMA will be a FA in 2 years, and Kawhi in 3, I believe there's a better chance finding either elite roleplayers or a star through free agency, thus I'm fine with your idea of creating some cap space for a player now with the view of securing a max slot for next summer as well, rounding off the team.

[Chinook]

1. But which player would you want the Spurs to sign, and at what price?

I have a list of guys like Clarkson, Gordon, Pau, Sullinger, Johnson, or even Mayo. Jordan and Jared are the top guys on that list, so if they can only get one, I'd rather it be one of those two. But if they can get two of the others, any combo would be nice.

3. Boban is restricted, can't the Spurs match any offer to re-sign him? At the very least, the Spurs need to extend the qualifying offer to keep him restricted, otherwise he becomes unrestricted and the feeding frenzy will begin.

5. I'm not certain how restricted free agents work with teams over the cap. But I've never heard of a team unable to match an offer sheet because they're over the cap. I would think the Spurs would be able to re-sign its own players and use the MLE as long as they stay over the cap.

The Spurs don't have Boban's Bird rights. So they can't just match any contract offer. They have to be able to use cap space or exceptions. The good news is that Boban is an Arenas RFA, so team's can't offer more than the MLE the first year. The bad news is that the Spurs would still need to use the MLE to keep him. So there's no keeping matching rights while using the MLE. After that's signed, it's the QO, the LLE or nothing. That was the point behind those "Is Boban worth it?" threads.

Teague as an example. The Spurs trade Diaw and Anderson for Teague. The Hawks immediately waive Diaw and save $3 million right there and then. They get to test out Anderson for a year and maybe the Spurs throw in a second rounder. Now Teague has an expiring contract but there are more players out there that are on multi year contracts and other teams could save even more money. Can the Hawks dump Teague to a team that has salary space? Yes, but who knows what the other teams are doing.

What they're doing is not making Atlanta pay $4 Million. So they will have to pay less than SA would. That also ignores that it's just easier to make trades when you're under the cap. If the Spurs are over the cap, they will and should look at trade ideas. But that isn't ideal by any means.

[Chinook]

I agree with most of what you've said, the only difference being that I don't think the Spurs have quit finding and developing guys into rotation players, it's just that they've not had the same level of talent to work with. You have the late 1st round pick ( CoJo - Anderson ), the 2nd round prospect ( Blair - McCallum, who didn't pan out ), the international wildcard ( De Colo - Boban ), the d-league hopeful ( Danny - Simmons ), the bought out vet ( Bobo - Martin ). Like you said, it's the 3-5 guys ,the former big 3, that weren't good enough, and yet they still looked much better against OKC than GSW do. Spurs defended them really really well, while they get anything they want against GS.

The difference is time and compe ion. Those guys were all together for years, and they were able to compete against each other and others for their spots. They didn't sign Green and go "All right, we're good." He was part of a series of guys brought in that started with dudes like Bogans and James Anderson. You had Blair, and McDyess, and Gooden, and Ratliff and a host of other guys before Diaw and Splitter took hold. The PGs had each other and a list of other small guards like Ford and Mason to take compete against. The Spurs don't have that now. They came in with 15 guaranteed contracts. They didn't keep guys like Green, and the rest of their call-ups recently have been dudes like Shannon Brown and Reggie Williams. You'll never improve if you stay complacent.

I just don't think they Spurs have any of these depth guys, say 3-8, on the pipeline or that they're likely to draft and develop them in time to surround LMA and Kawhi with them, as LMA will be a FA in 2 years, and Kawhi in 3, I believe there's a better chance finding either elite roleplayers or a star through free agency, thus I'm fine with your idea of creating some cap space for a player now with the view of securing a max slot for next summer as well, rounding off the team.

That won't round out the team, though. Let's assume for a second that they find a way to get someone like Clarkson this year and Ibaka next year. This would be their rotation:

PG: Clarkson, Parker
SG: Green,
SF: Leonard
PF Ibaka
C: Aldridge

That's not going to be a great team unless you can fill in those gaps with cheap, young players with upside. You'd rather it look something like this:

PG: Clarkson, Parker
SG: Green, [Winner of the compe ion between Simmons, the 29th pick in this draft and a couple other free-agent signees]
SF: Leonard, [Winner of the compe ion between Anderson, the 29th pick in this draft, Bertans, Dangubic and another signee or two]
PF: Ibaka, [Winner of compe ion between Bertans, LJC, Lalanne, and a room-exception signee]
C: Aldrdige. [Winner of the compe ion between Boban, Lalanne, Ndoye, Milutinov and the room-exception signee]

You don't just pencil in guys to take those roles. You bring them in, coach 'em up and let them duke it out to decide who, if any of them, can take the spot. This process takes years, and it's one the Spurs have neglected since 2013. It requires roster spots, minutes and the willingness to cut ties and move on.

[SAGirl]

Wishing for Tim and Manu to retire so you can enjoy the marvellous future of Cady Lallane, Youssou N'Doye, Davis Bertans, Simmons, etc.?

I've heard it all now.

The sooner you embrace that it's time to move on and rebuild, the sooner you can move on and rebuild. I don't want a a Kobe like retirement tour at this point.

[LakerHater]

Jus readin the le & nothin else, I'd havta agree!

[Gervin44Silas13]

We must have different definitions for the word mediocre. I'll stick with the dictionary version: "of only ordinary or moderate quality; not very good"

To me, that describes a team around .500 or worse that barely makes the playoffs or misses the playoffs altogether.

So the '91-96 Spurs were not mediocre, they were a good team, but not le-worthy.

And I think the Spurs for the next few seasons, barring something unforseen, will be at that level, too. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

1991 Golden State we got our asses handed to by RUN TMC 1st Round

1992 Suns Spurs banged up 2nd Round

1993 Suns Tark as Coach Lucas takes over great Playoff run since 1990 to Beat Blazers

1994 Jazz we could never beat these ers even with Rodman

1995 Rockets Choke job WCF

1996 Jazz Malone and Stockton again 2nd Round

1997 Missed Playoffs

Fans wont get used to this we've been to spoiled

[SAGirl]

In 2013, the 10-15 of the roster (by total minutes) was De Colo, Bonner, Blair, Mills, Joseph and Baynes. Besides Bonner, those were all prospects or young guys who played or ended up playing bigger roles. This past season, the bottom six players who ended the season on the roster were Manu, Simmons, Boban, Martin, Bonner and Miller. That's a huge, huge difference in terms of the team's priorities. That's the difference between a team that grew into a champion and a team that's moribund.

Thanks for taking the time to lay it out so well. I agree. Spurs let the ball drop between 2013-15. The one young player with potential to be a rotation guy that developed through their pipeline in that span (2013-2015) they let go bc they didn't want to waive Ayers or Daye for him (Jamychal Green). J.Green had looked better than both guys in SL and I bet he was kicking their ass in training camp. Talk about our need for younger athletic bigs this season, he was one. He probably would have taken the 1st year guaranteed/2nd year unguaranteed deal if they had offered it to him before he became a d'league star and other teams got in the bidding war for him. I think they learned from that debacle and that is why they went after Simmons with the same kind of deal b4 he broke out. It was a worthy gamble. I think maybe Ndoye is developing in that mold if he has a good showing in SL and Cady was already a d'league all star and can push to join the team like Deshaun Thomas. If these guys have a good summer and training camp they should join the team for asset retention as we can't afford to let any other cheap development projects go to waste and join other teams.

This season Spurs realized that they needed to replenish their youth and talent pool again. The got worthy prospects in Anderson/Boban/Simmons/RayMac, but obviously rookies and youngsters were not going to contribute in significant roles in their first seasons with the team, even in the best case scenario. We should be happy at least 3 of those 4 flashed enough potential to be retained. Still we had way too many old guys this season, as you pointed out, in spots 12-15 (Bonner, Kmart, AMiller). I liked the Miller pickup bc he's a really saavy old vet as they say. I think (and hope) that he had things to teach Anderson, Simmons and even Kawhi, as he's a guy who doesn't rely on explosiveness at all, but is smart, crafty, and knows how to find players in good spots. I think he was a role model personally, and a mentor more than intended to be a factor in the postseason. I really liked that pick up in that limited role bc that meant Pop was looking for mentors and teachers for the young project players that he has, and Pop loved A.Miller, glowingly stating he wished Miller was 30, so I think: 1. Pop is still looking for a good PG of the future; 2. he probably encouraged the younger players to soak up what they could from Miller.

Cutting ties with RayMac was maybe premature, but I assume they took the approach you described. Simmons flashed more talent, even if he's still a project and both are guards, so they let Ray go. Ray was the steadier player, with better ballhandling, but with less potential to be anything more than what he was IMO. Where they dropped the ball was keeping Ayers and Daye in 2013-15 over J.Green and not getting anything for Cojo, bc it was foreseeable they were not going to be able to keep him and his agent had likely destinations cooked up for CoJo from the get go. (RayMac got SAC a low 2nd round pick, we could have gotten a better 2nd round pick at least for Cojo or a foreign prospect), but whatever, I am sidetracking myself.

The difference is time and compe ion. Those guys were all together for years, and they were able to compete against each other and others for their spots. They didn't sign Green and go "All right, we're good." He was part of a series of guys brought in that started with dudes like Bogans and James Anderson. You had Blair, and McDyess, and Gooden, and Ratliff and a host of other guys before Diaw and Splitter took hold. The PGs had each other and a list of other small guards like Ford and Mason to take compete against. The Spurs don't have that now. They came in with 15 guaranteed contracts. They didn't keep guys like Green, and the rest of their call-ups recently have been dudes like Shannon Brown and Reggie Williams. You'll never improve if you stay complacent...
You don't just pencil in guys to take those roles. You bring them in, coach 'em up and let them duke it out to decide who, if any of them, can take the spot. This process takes years, and it's one the Spurs have neglected since 2013. It requires roster spots, minutes and the willingness to cut ties and move on.

And it's also why I posted somewhere that rebuilding through the draft takes time, but a team with Kawhi, LMA, Danny, Boban, Anderson and a couple of good FA picked up this offseason will not be in the lottery IMO, specially if those couple of complementary players are young and capable of still improving--which should appease all those Kawhi fans that are anti-tank. Anyways, you hope a few other guys do develop as well (the kind we haven't seen yet, the Bertans, Cadys, etc. of the world who may join us this offseason).

[Horry Hipcheck]

OKC kept a team that couldn't win a championship, or even get close to one, and they're doing quite well.



I believe everyone who'd expect a team with a top 5 and a top 15 NBA players on the roster to tank is beyond delusional. Wasting a year where Kawhi would have a legitimate chance to be MVP so you can develop the scrubs that LJC, Lallane, Bertans and Simmons are? Kawhi may be quiet but he won't stand for this. I don't think the Spurs will carry too many rookies and trying to develop them at the same time. I'll believe it when I see it.



Unless they sign bad players to contracts into 2017 cap space, the supposed one year of pain won't increase or decrease their chances of being a contender past 2017.

The idea of rewarding a max FA signing like Aldridge for coming to the Spurs by wasting his second season under contract with Kawhi not even in his prime yet

[Obstructed_View]

If the Spurs couldn't win a Championship with this team, do any of you really believe that the addition of players like Marvin Williams or Thomas Robinson will put them over the hump? So if they can't win it all next year, why piss around with half measures?

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post, particularly even trading up if possible. But you seem to think the Spurs are far worse than they are. If you could have replaced Boris Diaw or David West with someone who was plus a few points per game, are the Spurs still playing now? Given the margins of the games, you have to think it's at least a possibility. That's a lot more than a half measure. The Spurs have turned guys into reclamation projects before, so it's worth a bit of money to take a chance. It seems far better than throwing money at guys who are commanding a lot of money based on buzz.

Role players are essential for le teams, and they aren't always vets. You need a Jaren or Stephen Jackson or a Cory Joseph or an Aron Baynes or some combination of more than one to contribute in order to have a shot in the playoffs. Adding guys who are young and want to win and jettisoning old guys who are just taking up space gives you a chance. If you think you need more than that on a team with two all-stars then you probably need to consider getting rid of the all-stars.

[GSH]

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post, particularly even trading up if possible. But you seem to think the Spurs are far worse than they are.

Truth? I'm a little s -shocked at what I saw out of Tim in the latter part of the regular season, and the playoffs. If he could somehow come back like he was in the '15 playoffs, it might change the calculus. But it would be a miracle, considering. Much as I hate thinking it, I think the wheels have finally come off. Behind him, the Spurs had two PF's and Boban. That's a major hole, and I think the Thunder's success is going to start a new Big Man Arms Race in the offseason. That's going to make that hole even harder to fill.

Parker is still a good point guard, but not a great point guard anymore. I think he has now played the 5th most NBA minutes of any PG in history, plus all the summer ball. My gut tells me that his trajectory isn't upwards. One of my pet stats is FTA/100 possessions (or FTA/FGA). At his prime, Parker got the benefit of 7.5-8 FTA/100. This season, that was down to 4.4 and in the playoffs he only took 2.8. That's significant - some people will understand why, and the others I'll never convince. But it's not the fault of the refs. It's about what kind of threat he represents on the court, and it means he's going to struggle to get his teammates easier shots. That's sort of a big deal for a PG.

Oh, and I saw that picture of Diaw looking like Fat Bas , 4 months after their last Championship. He's an X-Factor kind of guy, but he wasn't so much this season. People kept saying that he was saving it for the playoffs like Robert Horry. That didn't happen. He played more like Fat Bas .

If you could have replaced Boris Diaw or David West with someone who was plus a few points per game, are the Spurs still playing now? Given the margins of the games, you have to think it's at least a possibility.

That's this season - I'm thinking about next season. When players get as old as some of ours, they drop off. It's sort of like gravity. They've defied it, to a great extent, for a long time. But I think we saw evidence of it catching up this season. So the question is, "What will those guys look like at the end of the next 82-game season?" Will they be better? I don't think anyone thinks that. Will they be as good? That's not what my gut says, if I'm being honest. I agree the gap between the Spurs and the Thunder in the playoffs was relatively small. I'm saying it will be bigger next year. If the goal is to "contend", that's fine. If the goal is to win Championships, it's a problem. Opinions are worth what you pay for them, but that's my two cents.

Role players are essential for le teams, and they aren't always vets. You need a Jaren or Stephen Jackson or a Cory Joseph or an Aron Baynes or some combination of more than one to contribute in order to have a shot in the playoffs.

Yep. I'm not one who daydreams about having our own private All-Star team. But it helps to have role players who are at the top of their game, or near it. Former starters who are on their last legs aren't always the same thing. I know you know this - but if you're going to bring in several new role players, it's going to take some time for everyone to get comfortable playing with each other. That also doesn't make me believe we'll be seeing #6 next season.

Put that all together, and it's a pretty good case for taking one season for a real re-build.

[GSH]

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post, particularly even trading up if possible. But you seem to think the Spurs are far worse than they are. If you could have replaced Boris Diaw or David West with someone who was plus a few points per game, are the Spurs still playing now? Given the margins of the games, you have to think it's at least a possibility. That's a lot more than a half measure. The Spurs have turned guys into reclamation projects before, so it's worth a bit of money to take a chance.

One more thing. Diaw got paid $7.5M this season, based on what he did the year before. Those replacements who are a few points better? Next season they're probably going to cost what? $10M? $12M? And that only helps if Tim/Tony/Manu are just as good as they were this season.

And if the Spurs are going to bank on lower-cost "reclamation projects", then bring 'em in and play the out of them... during the re-build year.


And now I talk too ing much, too. I'll take my own advice and shut up about it.

[Obstructed_View]

Truth? I'm a little s -shocked at what I saw out of Tim in the latter part of the regular season, and the playoffs. If he could somehow come back like he was in the '15 playoffs, it might change the calculus. But it would be a miracle, considering. Much as I hate thinking it, I think the wheels have finally come off. Behind him, the Spurs had two PF's and Boban. That's a major hole, and I think the Thunder's success is going to start a new Big Man Arms Race in the offseason. That's going to make that hole even harder to fill.

Parker is still a good point guard, but not a great point guard anymore. I think he has now played the 5th most NBA minutes of any PG in history, plus all the summer ball. My gut tells me that his trajectory isn't upwards. One of my pet stats is FTA/100 possessions (or FTA/FGA). At his prime, Parker got the benefit of 7.5-8 FTA/100. This season, that was down to 4.4 and in the playoffs he only took 2.8. That's significant - some people will understand why, and the others I'll never convince. But it's not the fault of the refs. It's about what kind of threat he represents on the court, and it means he's going to struggle to get his teammates easier shots. That's sort of a big deal for a PG.

Oh, and I saw that picture of Diaw looking like Fat Bas , 4 months after their last Championship. He's an X-Factor kind of guy, but he wasn't so much this season. People kept saying that he was saving it for the playoffs like Robert Horry. That didn't happen. He played more like Fat Bas .







That's this season - I'm thinking about next season. When players get as old as some of ours, they drop off. It's sort of like gravity. They've defied it, to a great extent, for a long time. But I think we saw evidence of it catching up this season. So the question is, "What will those guys look like at the end of the next 82-game season?" Will they be better? I don't think anyone thinks that. Will they be as good? That's not what my gut says, if I'm being honest. I agree the gap between the Spurs and the Thunder in the playoffs was relatively small. I'm saying it will be bigger next year. If the goal is to "contend", that's fine. If the goal is to win Championships, it's a problem. Opinions are worth what you pay for them, but that's my two cents.



Yep. I'm not one who daydreams about having our own private All-Star team. But it helps to have role players who are at the top of their game, or near it. Former starters who are on their last legs aren't always the same thing. I know you know this - but if you're going to bring in several new role players, it's going to take some time for everyone to get comfortable playing with each other. That also doesn't make me believe we'll be seeing #6 next season.

Put that all together, and it's a pretty good case for taking one season for a real re-build.

First of all, the Spurs have two of the top players in the league in their starting five. If someone in the Spurs' organization even suggested rebuilding for a year they should be fired immediately. It would make more sense to say you were going to offer a max contract to Lebron James than to just give up a year.

There are a lot of free agents that would fit in with the Spurs, probably some that will be frustrated with not being able to win where they are, and you never know what can happen at that point, especially if the world actually believes that Curry's injury is the only thing keeping the Dubs from winning the next five les.

There's a lot you can do when you have Aldridge and Leonard on your front line. But you can't just away a year of their primes.

[GSH]

First of all, the Spurs have two of the top players in the league in their starting five. If someone in the Spurs' organization even suggested rebuilding for a year they should be fired immediately. It would make more sense to say you were going to offer a max contract to Lebron James than to just give up a year.

There are a lot of free agents that would fit in with the Spurs, probably some that will be frustrated with not being able to win where they are, and you never know what can happen at that point, especially if the world actually believes that Curry's injury is the only thing keeping the Dubs from winning the next five les.

There's a lot you can do when you have Aldridge and Leonard on your front line. But you can't just away a year of their primes.

Pointless to argue, since I'm sure the Spurs' FO will see it just about the way you say. I hope one of those disgruntled FA's is a serviceable 7-footer. And I hope they bring in someone to work with Boban (especially to teach him the PnR) so that he can be a consistent backup. Ultimately, the Spurs lost the OKC series in the middle.

[Obstructed_View]

Pointless to argue, since I'm sure the Spurs' FO will see it just about the way you say. I hope one of those disgruntled FA's is a serviceable 7-footer. And I hope they bring in someone to work with Boban (especially to teach him the PnR) so that he can be a consistent backup. Ultimately, the Spurs lost the OKC series in the middle.

I'd submit that the Spurs have lost virtually every series they've ever lost at that position since David Robinson retired. Funny how you don't really need a center that's better than Fabricio Oberto or Tiago Splitter in order to have everything kind of click together.

[Vito Corleone]

1991 Golden State we got our asses handed to by RUN TMC 1st Round

1992 Suns Spurs banged up 2nd Round

1993 Suns Tark as Coach Lucas takes over great Playoff run since 1990 to Beat Blazers

1994 Jazz we could never beat these ers even with Rodman

1995 Rockets Choke job WCF

1996 Jazz Malone and Stockton again 2nd Round

1997 Missed Playoffs

Fans wont get used to this we've been to spoiled

If San Antonio could have kept the 89-90 spurs team together and added Elden Campbell instead of Dwayne Schensis That team wins a le within 2 to 3 years.

That team was destroyed by a series of bad moves by a crappy GM AKA Bob Bass along with a little bad luck.

Rod Strickland, Willie Anderson, Sean Elliott, Terry mings, and Big Dave was a force. All it needed was a little time.

We let Rod walk for absolutely nothing, Willie's bones start to crumble, and mings tears his ACL. Then there was the hiring of so many bad coaches.

But all that stuff happened created the situation where we get Pop and RC and draft Duncan, the rest is history.

[Gervin44Silas13]

If San Antonio could have kept the 89-90 spurs team together and added Elden Campbell instead of Dwayne Schensis That team wins a le within 2 to 3 years.

That team was destroyed by a series of bad moves by a crappy GM AKA Bob Bass along with a little bad luck.

Rod Strickland, Willie Anderson, Sean Elliott, Terry mings, and Big Dave was a force. All it needed was a little time.

We let Rod walk for absolutely nothing, Willie's bones start to crumble, and mings tears his ACL. Then there was the hiring of so many bad coaches.

But all that stuff happened created the situation where we get Pop and RC and draft Duncan, the rest is history.

That 89-90 team was my favorite team....we had the nucleus going in to that 1991 season, tehen we got nuts, sydney bone spurs green, and David hasbeen Greenwood

Willie and his stupid stress fractures he couldn't stay put and couldn't stop inseminating women
Rod got into a stupid nite club fight and broke his wrist..... when we lost him people were ing about the true point guard position!! LMAO!!
David Windgate was never the same after the phony rape charge that had to with his pysche
1992 TC injures his knee in a freaking pickup game during the off season!!!! FML

Brown, Bass and Tarkainan (that was a en joke....he wanted to make Lloyd Daniels the focus of his offense)

What I like about Lucas is he implemented that fire.....

Funny how Pop weaved in and out from the Spurs to Golden State then back to the Spurs

[SAGirl]

Pointless to argue, since I'm sure the Spurs' FO will see it just about the way you say. I hope one of those disgruntled FA's is a serviceable 7-footer. And I hope they bring in someone to work with Boban (especially to teach him the PnR) so that he can be a consistent backup. Ultimately, the Spurs lost the OKC series in the middle.

Yup. I don't think there will be any tanking on purpose. For project players the will bring Bertans and Cady very likely, maybe someone else. I think if someone falls to 29 that they like they get a rookie, if not they will stash again. Maybe they try to move up in the draft, Boston and Philly have a lot of picks. I am just pessimistic we can move up bc we don't have any trade assets to achieve that, unless the Spurs look to deal Tony Parker. That's too drastic, I think. Is Pop willing? I doubt they deal Danny, the only other guy they could spare to move up, but they once dealt G.Hill and they loved him. So, I will just say that it seems unlikely they can find a way to move up without giving up a player they need. Hill was a backup mostly and when he was dealt Manu and Tony were still elite players. Now they are not, that makes it unlikely they would be willing to part with Danny. How likely is Pop to deal Tony? If Timmy and Manu retire, I think they should consider it. They need to get younger anyways and Tony is not part of some big 3 with LMA and Kawhi.

For the rest, they keep their cheap young projects. (Simmons, KA, and Boban--who will get paid, but bc of the Arenas rule I have been told it will not be an exorbitant amount.)

The one veteran I think they will try to trade out or waive, stretch, whatever is Boris. There are threads about him already, so no need to add much to it, but his disappearing act was not just against OKC. He was missing most of the season too, and he wasn't even playing well against the Grizzlies. Plus, I know you and half the forum dwellers don't like him but Anderson and Boris have duplicitous skills. If Boris is kept he will just be a security blanket for Pop at this stage bc Anderson averaged more minutes than Boris after the AS break, and at 7.5 mill that's a damn expensive security blanket. What's more is that Pop was already losing the desire to play said security blanket, and wasn't afraid to give minutes to Anderson, who should be better as he matures and continue to improve his game, meanwhile Boris will be worse as he ages and continues to value the good life over basketball. They will be better off spending Boris' 7.5 mill plus some cap on someone else with different skills. Boban will be paid so maybe some of that goes to Boban, still leaves cap for someone else.

The rest pretty much stays the same, unless Tim and Manu retire. In which case they probably will get more aggressive in FA. I don't have a lot of ideas on FA bc I am very bad with the cap + I don't watch enough of other teams to know or even have an opinion on different FA possibilities, specially when talking about role players, but that is probably where suggestions like K-Storm, Chinook, TD 21 or others have different possibilities. I would prioritize a big like you. I think Boban can get a lot of offense for the bench and he can play paired with D west, Cady, Bertans, or Anderson as partners. There will be a lot of young frontcourt players to play him with and all have range so it's perfect for the bench. It's really the starting center they need to look at. After that they look at guards.

[GSH]

I'd submit that the Spurs have lost virtually every series they've ever lost at that position since David Robinson retired. Funny how you don't really need a center that's better than Fabricio Oberto or Tiago Splitter in order to have everything kind of click together.

Ahhh ... you're gonna resort to logic and facts?


No, I understand what you're saying. As for the C position, there's no subs ute for size. He doesn't have to be a super-star, but he has to be able to grind for position, and he has to be able to absorb contact and still finish the chip-shots. Able to hold his position on screens and seals. You know all that. Fabbs was under-appreciated, and Tiago (when he was healthy) was vastly under-rated by pretty much everyone but the most knowledgeable fans. I'd take either one of them, at that stage of their careers, and be happy. Both LMA and Kawhi become much more dangerous, with "that guy" in the middle.

Look - all I'm saying is that I think that if the Spurs could stand 100% pat, and bring back every single player from this season, they wouldn't be as good as after another 82-game season as they were at the end of this one. I think Tim is worn out. And I think Tony/Manu are declining. Would you agree with that much? So upgrading Diaw and West to players "a few points better" would still not make the difference, because the other positions will be weaker.

I think the days of Tim/Manu/Tony are over. And Diaw looks like he doesn't have the fire to condition the way he would need to. That means that they have multiple holes to fill. To me, that says that trying to augment this year's roster isn't going to make a Championship team. My opinion - if they take one year to re-build, they can put together a much stronger roster for 17-18, than if they do things the way you suggest.

This year, I thought the Spurs had a legit chance to win it all - so a second round exit isn't crushing. It's just the nature of compe ion. But if (just give me the "if") next year's roster has most of the same players, but a couple of upgrades for Diaw and West, and their ceiling is a second-round exit? I think they would be better served for the long run by getting some ping-pong balls, and having enough cap space to pursue a top-level player, plus another solid journeyman role player, and THEN find a couple of those overlooked gems that will sign for cheap.

So let me ask you this. You say it would be inexcusable to piss off a year of Kawhi and LMA - and I understand that. But how do you feel about pissing off 5-6 years of their careers on second round or CF exits, because of a lack of talent/youth surrounding them? It's a balancing act. I think the Spurs are already there - you don't. But what I'm saying is that far out there. Even if your way is right, it's close. Like I said, I have no doubt that the FO won't go for a one-year re-boot, so I hope you're right.

I really never intended to turn it into an argument.

[Obstructed_View]

Look - all I'm saying is that I think that if the Spurs could stand 100% pat, and bring back every single player from this season, they wouldn't be as good as after another 82-game season as they were at the end of this one. I think Tim is worn out. And I think Tony/Manu are declining. Would you agree with that much?

I agree 100 percent, but it's the next step where we diverge. I think the Spurs broke down at the end of the year. I think Duncan and Manu and Diaw and West are all done, and Parker is not giving the Spurs what they need. All those things became a trainwreck that got them booted out of the playoffs. But remember that they lost in six games, three or four of them close games, to a team that's currently kicking the out of Golden State. With your best two players in their primes, a pretty solid bench, and some cap room, I don't see why you couldn't make a couple of moves and end up with a team that's better than the team that the Spurs were two weeks ago. Will they win 65+ games? Probably not, but they will be better equipped for a playoff run.

[SAGirl]

LMA doesn't have 5-6 years. He possibly has 2-3 at this level. That's I think the extent of his contract anyways. Spurs are in win now mode. You have maybe too much of a negative view on our youngest players. The Tim that needs to be replaced is not the Tim we knew who is a HOF player. It's a Tim that was hobbled, couldn't score in the post or on PNR, doesn't have a jumper, can still pass but his passing is taken away when they can double his targets off him, misses open layups etc. There are role players that will be better than 41 yrs old no knees Tim. You said it yourself a healthy Tiago Splitter would be better for us than no knees Tim. We need a solid role player who is not going to break down b4 the season is over. (Tiago is not an option bc he's even less healthy than Tim).

Hah! Manu wasn't even scoring much in the latter part of the season and the postseason. I though his defense is probably what will miss the most between him and Smmons who still gets lost defensively, plus Manu gambles a lot on defense but it pays off for him. However you saw Manus defense in the playoffs. He was terrible against Dion Waiters. It's possible Simmons can become a better SG within the next season if he improves his handles a bit. And if not Simmons, someone else.

There are any number of guards that are better options for the bench than Manu at this point too, in case Simmons flames out. In fact if we were to play Boban as an offensive focus, maybe you could still play Manu, or another guard. The Manu that needs to be replaced is not HoF Manu, is the role player Manu.

Tony to me is the most difficult guy bc he still has an important role and one that cannot be handed to just anyone. Still Pop needs to keep an eye out for options.

Again, I think you are too fatalistic. I hope our young guys don't think their chances are over bc the big 3 need to move on. We just need the right role players and a couple of our projects to become reliable, which should happen as younger players get experience. The same way it happened with Cojo, Baynes, Tiago, DAnny, etc. The younger guys will be better. In fact, one has to hope for some internal improvement and that is yet another reason to shed the dead weight. The over the hill players get to the postseason and are worse. Meanwhile in the past (2013-2014) when the Spurs relied a lot more on younger players they improved as the season wore on and they were better in the postseason. OKC young players are playing better in the postseason, they learned and improved. We have to rely more on younger players too. It's not just replacing Diaw or D west. A Boban who had played all season (and been relied to win games, not just garbage time Boban) was not going to go into hiding in the postseason. Anderson was a rest provider for Kawhi this postseason. It's not like he was involved in the offense. He was standing in a corner. They could have run plays to get him on mismatches but that would have meant they were going to run the offense through him and this is what you and others don't understand. "These playoffs weren't for him!"

Haven't we seen that b4? He had a marginal role. Maybe Pop should have thought to get him more involved, specially when Manu and Patty were absent, but Pop didn't do that bc it wasn't his time. Maybe Pop deemed he wasn't ready, but just bc he didn't contribute offensively doesn't mean he couldn't or won't in the future. It just wasn't his role this season. Like him there are others, Boban, maybe Simmons who will be able to do more in the future. Only "these playoffs weren't for them." It wasn't their time. So, bottom line, we have guys that can do more, and hopefully will improve, but some older guys who weren't pulling their weight and they need to be replaced.

You add some FA to this group and they will continue competing. 2017 they can still go after a big FA. + a criticism of tanking: you don't want your young players to pick up losing habits. They should always try to win every game that's how they improve.

[ernest787]

The Spurs were contending for a championship the last 4 years and were attempting to maximize the final seasons of 2 future Hall of Famers.

Would it have been awesome to have a stock pile of youth that was built up over that 4 year period that could step in and continue the high level of play? Yes.. but they kind of have that with Kawhi / LMA / Danny.

The bottom of the roster isn't chock full of young guys, but when you realize your final window for Tim Duncan and Manu is 3-4 years, you take guys that you think are going to be able to help you win now. They did that. It worked initially and they went to 2 finals and got another ring. Unfortunately, it finally fell apart.

The thing is the Spurs are in a better position right now than most teams have even been after losing 2 Hall of Famers that lead the team to multiple championships.

Kawhi / LMA / Green / Parker is a really good starting group that can easily win 50 games if they can just build up the bench and get some pieces to click. I do agree that now they are going to need to try and maximize the young talent and hope that over the next 3-4 seasons they are able to build guys like they did 10 years ago. If it pans out then we will be right back in the le picture in no time. If it doesn't, we are going to be a playoff team that is on the fringe of being an actual contender.

Either way, this run and the run going forward it something that has rarely if ever been accomplished. It's fun to be a Spurs fan.

[GSH]

I agree 100 percent, but it's the next step where we diverge. I think the Spurs broke down at the end of the year. I think Duncan and Manu and Diaw and West are all done, and Parker is not giving the Spurs what they need. All those things became a trainwreck that got them booted out of the playoffs. But remember that they lost in six games, three or four of them close games, to a team that's currently kicking the out of Golden State. With your best two players in their primes, a pretty solid bench, and some cap room, I don't see why you couldn't make a couple of moves and end up with a team that's better than the team that the Spurs were two weeks ago. Will they win 65+ games? Probably not, but they will be better equipped for a playoff run.

Pretty damn compelling argument. I got nothin' to add.

[dabom]

GSH wants to become a lottery team? Wow I heard it all now.

That ing cuck can suck a bag of s. We will have the best top 2 player and maybe MVP player in the league going into his prime and you want ping pong balls.

[GSH]

GSH wants to become a lottery team? Wow I heard it all now.

That ing cuck can suck a bag of s. We will have the best top 2 player and maybe MVP player in the league going into his prime and you want ping pong balls.

LOL... that gray name really chaps your ass, doesn't it? I mean, there are guys here with thousands fewer posts than you who are bolded.

It's hard to understand. You contribute so many good basketball takes. It's really not fair.