What happened to PATFO ability to nail the "small moves"?

[spursistan]

If we put the Parker extension aside, it could be argued that the front office failure-- since 2013-- to inject contributing talent on the margins through late draft picks, reclamation projects in buy-low forms and lower leagues finds to has been the major culprit for this team depth disintegration 3 years later...the stashing policies has yielded nothing..we haven' equally taken fliers on character issues guys since Steph Jackson..no Gray Neals, much less Danny Green gems..etc...It has all come to roost with precipitous and terminal decline of TD/Manu.

In retrospect, I don't know what the we were doing by having mid-career proven scrubs like Daye/Ayres taking spots on our team for two consecutive seasons ..

Time to reboot RC..

[TheGreatYacht]

Jeff Ayres, Matt Bonner, Kyle Anderson, Austin Daye, Reggie Williams, and Ray McCallum

[TheGreatYacht]

Having Tim Duncan has masked a lot of the terrible decisions PATFO has made throughout the years, tbh.

Check out this 2004 roster Prime Timmy had to play with

Birth Date	Exp	College
12	Bruce Bowen	SF	6-7	185	June 14, 1971	7	California State University, Fullerton
23	Devin Brown	SG	6-5	220	December 30, 1978	1	University of Texas at San Antonio
3	Matt Carroll	SG	6-6	212	August 28, 1980	R	University of Notre Dame
7	Anthony Carter	PG	6-1	190	June 16, 1975	4	University of Hawaii
21	Tim Duncan	PF	6-11	250	April 25, 1976	6	Wake Forest University
10	Alex Garcia	SG	6-3	220	March 4, 1980	R
20	Manu Ginobili	SG	6-6	205	July 28, 1977	1
1	Jason Hart	PG	6-3	185	April 29, 1978	2	Syracuse University
No.	Player	Pos	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	Exp	College
11	Shane Heal	PG	6-0	180	September 6, 1970	1
5	Robert Horry	PF	6-9	220	August 25, 1970	11	University of Alabama
33	Ron Mercer	SG	6-7	210	May 18, 1976	6	University of Kentucky
8	Rasho Nesterovic	C	7-0	248	May 30, 1976	5
9	Tony Parker	PG	6-2	185	May 17, 1982	2
31	Malik Rose	PF	6-7	250	November 23, 1974	7	Drexel University
14	Hedo Turkoglu	SF	6-10	220	March 19, 1979	3
17	Charlie Ward	PG	6-2	190	October 12, 1970	9	Florida State University
42	Kevin Willis	C	7-0	220	September 6, 1962

[spursistan]

Jeff Ayres, Matt Bonner, Kyle Anderson, Austin Daye, Reggie Williams, and Ray McCallum

Yep, PATFO as whole kinda got fat, happy and sentimental after 5..Fact stands as it is: team has won zero legit playoff series since the 2014 Finals.

[TheGreatYacht]

Giving away a first round pick that could've been used on Festus Ezeli or Draymond Green, for a guy that cut because he wasn't "over himself"...

Giving away a second round pick for Ray McCallum...

Giving away 2 second round picks in 2014 for nothing...

Drafting a bunch of duds like DeShaun Thomas, Marcus Denmon, Kyle Anderson, Livio Jean Charles, Adam Hanga, Ryan Richards, etc....

[TheGreatYacht]

I'll give them props for landing Aldridge, though

Even though the other teams trying to recruit him were the Lkers, Kniks, Blzers, Sns, and Mvs

[Hoops Czar]

PATFO = Overrated

All of R.C buford's "executive of the year" awards should go straight into Duncan's trophy case.

[024]

Hard to pick up decent players when the Spurs are constantly picking in the low 20s. But yeah, it's been a while since the Spurs drafted a good NBA player. Leonard and Joseph were like 5 years ago and the Spurs couldn't even keep Joseph.

Meanwhile, the Thunder are using their 20s pick to draft Ibaka, Reggie Jackson, Roberson. They also drafted Adams and Payne in the lottery, not to mention not screwing up their high draft picks by drafting Durant and Westbrook.. Not too bad of a haul. They even drafted Bledsoe and Goodwin but both were traded away.

[Hoops Czar]

Hard to pick up decent players when the Spurs are constantly picking int he low 20s. But yeah, it's been a while since the Spurs drafted a good NBA player. Leonard and Joseph were like 5 years ago and the Spurs couldn't even keep Joseph.

Meanwhile, the Thunder are using their 20s pick to draft Ibaka, Reggie Jackson, Roberson. They also drafted Adams and Payne in the lottery, not to mention not screwing up their high draft picks by drafting Durant and Westbrook.. Not too bad of a haul. They even drafted Bledsoe and Goodwin but both were traded away.

Presti >>>>>>>>>>>>> Buford

[spursistan]

Hard to pick up decent players when the Spurs are constantly picking in the low 20s. But yeah, it's been a while since the Spurs drafted a good NBA player. Leonard and Joseph were like 5 years ago and the Spurs couldn't even keep Joseph.

Meanwhile, the Thunder are using their 20s pick to draft Ibaka, Reggie Jackson, Roberson. They also drafted Adams and Payne in the lottery, not to mention not screwing up their high draft picks by drafting Durant and Westbrook.. Not too bad of a haul. They even drafted Bledsoe and Goodwin but both were traded away.

yeah, Presti blows RC out of the water in (late) draft talent evaluation..you can't argue with that track record..I just think it is about time the Spurs get something out of their picks..I mean, Kyle Anderson is an NBA player but his ceiling figures to be low even relative to Cojo/George Hill types..Next season is going to be make or break for him..

[MultiTroll]

Boban was a good pickup.

Can't contribute to playoff wins when chained to the bench.

[Hoops Czar]

Boban was a good pickup.

Can't contribute to playoff wins when chained to the bench.

Sideshow Boban isn't a rotation player.

[spursistan]

26th pick and a week removed from his 24th birthday G Hill scored 29 pts/21 pts in pivotal Game 4/6 of playoffs R1 against Dallas'10..That's the type of contribution we've missed in the Thunder series... someone popping off for 10-15 points more than his yearly average in Game 2 or Game 5 ..

[TD 21]

Age and the Aldridge signings were the main culprits for the depth disintegration.

Many of the key players were borderline ancient (Duncan, Ginobili) or old (Parker, Diaw, Bonner) before their run of 3 straight deep runs even began. Even though it was difficult to envision given the way they capped it off in '14, in retrospect, it made sense that they'd never be the same again.

Then the Aldridge signing meant having to part ways with Splitter, Belinelli, Joseph and Baynes.

Sure, getting more immediate help from the '12-'15 drafts and nailing a minor signing or trade would have them better positioned now, but I doubt either would have altered the outcome of their past two seasons.

[Chinook]

A lot of it comes from stashing guys. But most of it comes down to luck and more importantly not playing often enough. They didn't "nail" Green. He was part of a train of low-end wings. You had Neal, but how many summer-league guys went before, during or after who were as good as him? Maybe Eddie? Blair was a rare early second.

The Spurs have been in win-now mode for two decades. That has encouraged them to go years without trying to develop guys. They need to start doing that now, actively and using their roster. There's nothing wrong with signing players like Ayres or trading for Daye. But they guaranteed those contracts and didn't really try upgrading or waited too long to try. Their d-leaguers have been older players like Brown or Williams recently. They choose guys for their summer-league teams who have no interest in the NBA just to be nice. They should be more aggressive in their attempts to find cheap talent this off-season. But for all we know, they sign a bunch of ring-chasers to guaranteed deals and stash their guys again. Would be a shame. They can't keep going like this for much longer.

[Chinook]

Age and the Aldridge signings were the main culprits for the depth disintegration.

Many of the key players were borderline ancient (Duncan, Ginobili) or old (Parker, Diaw, Bonner) before their run of 3 straight deep runs even began. Even though it was difficult to envision given the way they capped it off in '14, in retrospect, it made sense that they'd never be the same again.

Then the Aldridge signing meant having to part ways with Splitter, Belinelli, Joseph and Baynes.

Sure, getting more immediate help from the '12-'15 drafts and nailing a minor signing or trade would have them better positioned now, but I doubt either would have altered the outcome of their past two seasons.

I don't necessarily agree with that. The Spurs lost both series by narrow margins. If they draft better players or players whom they could plug and play sooner, who knows what would have happened? There are definitely guys whom the team could have drafted over the past four years who could have been huge difference-makers.

2012: So much talent at 30 and below (Festus, Crowder, Green, Acy, Middleton, Barton, Scott, Kostas, O'Quinn
2013: Crabbe, Withey, Covington, Delladova
2014: McDaniels, Grant, Jokic, Clarkson (and yes, I like Kyle just fine)
2015: Remains to be seen, and I like Milutinov's long-term potential, but there will likely be useful players like Hunter, Harrell and Young before it's all said and done.

And I'm sure there are min guys who have signed recently who have ended up being better players than Ayres and the like. It's actually rather easy to see how the Spurs could have improved substantially had they had better drafts recently.

[spursistan]

^^.that's some revolting whiffing-on...

Edited: our 1st rounder went to GSW in RJ trade that season so that softens the blow..

[MultiTroll]

Sideshow Boban isn't a rotation player.

Not according to his production stats and eyeball test.
You're declaring he couldn't does not mean he wouldn't.

[TeKu]

lol Marcus Denmon over those dudes in 2012 draft..that's some revolting whiffing-on...

Except it wasn't. We took Denmon with the 59th pick, all those dudes were off the board already. We traded our 30th pick in 2012 to dump RJ on Golden State, a move unanimously applauded then & now on this forum. Easy to be a revisionist expert. The draft is a crapshoot in which a good FO will move the odds slightly away from drafting a dud. Anyone who thinks we draft bad with PAFTO is just trolling.

Aldridge cost us depth this year but it wasn't past draft choice/FA scrapheap signings that cost us. It was the drop-off with our old guys, which was always a calculated risk, just didn't pay off this time.

[TD 21]

I don't necessarily agree with that. The Spurs lost both series by narrow margins. If they draft better players or players whom they could plug and play sooner, who knows what would have happened? There are definitely guys whom the team could have drafted over the past four years who could have been huge difference-makers.

2012: So much talent at 30 and below (Festus, Crowder, Green, Acy, Middleton, Barton, Scott, Kostas, O'Quinn
2013: Crabbe, Withey, Covington, Delladova
2014: McDaniels, Grant, Jokic, Clarkson (and yes, I like Kyle just fine)
2015: Remains to be seen, and I like Milutinov's long-term potential, but there will likely be useful players like Hunter, Harrell and Young before it's all said and done.

And I'm sure there are min guys who have signed recently who have ended up being better players than Ayres and the like. It's actually rather easy to see how the Spurs could have improved substantially had they had better drafts recently.

Both series weren't as close as they appeared on the surface and I don't buy that any of those players swing the results.

It's easy to look at what Green and Middleton, in particular, have become, but who knows what they'd have been on the Spurs.

There's also an element of luck to all of this. Them nailing damn near everything from '11-'13 wasn't because they're geniuses, just like they didn't all of a sudden forget how to do their jobs after that.

My only major qualm is, I do believe arrogance crept in. I think they became emboldened after that stretch and thought they could take damn near anyone who fits them culturally and has decent enough physical tools and mold them into a rotation player. Maybe that was bound to happen though.

[exstatic]

^^.that's some revolting whiffing-on...

Edited: our 1st rounder went to GSW in RJ trade that season so that softens the blow..

Denmon was picked almost last in the draft, hardly "over" those 2012 picks listed.

[Chinook]

Both series weren't as close as they appeared on the surface and I don't buy that any of those players swing the results.

It's easy to look at what Green and Middleton, in particular, have become, but who knows what they'd have been on the Spurs.

There's also an element of luck to all of this. Them nailing damn near everything from '11-'13 wasn't because they're geniuses, just like they didn't all of a sudden forget how to do their jobs after that.

My only major qualm is, I do believe arrogance crept in. I think they became emboldened after that stretch and thought they could take damn near anyone who fits them culturally and has decent enough physical tools and mold them into a rotation player. Maybe that was bound to happen though.

I have no objection to this. Just saying the talent was there to put them over the top. Luck has a lot to do with it, but as I said a good deal of posts back, the Spurs haven't taken as many chances as they should have to find the talent. I don't mean risks, I mean they haven't attempted as many times as they should have. They got guys like Ayres and Daye and kept them for multiple years. They brought 15 guaranteed contracts last October. It's hard to win in a luck-based game when you give about one spin a year.

[Chinook]

Denmon was picked almost last in the draft, hardly "over" those 2012 picks listed.

Spursistan does seem to have a stronger agenda than I think is warranted, but the Spurs traded that pick away to dump Jefferson. It was a cost they paid, so it's totally up for debate whether those guys would have been worth keeping RJ or amnestying him or whatever.

[diego]

My only major qualm is, I do believe arrogance crept in. I think they became emboldened after that stretch and thought they could take damn near anyone who fits them culturally and has decent enough physical tools and mold them into a rotation player. Maybe that was bound to happen though.

TD and manu covering for mistakes / putting guys in position to succeed allowed the team to make those kinds of players good enough for the rotation for it to work. Their decline has made that strategy untenable. I think its a calculated risk thats just part of life for a GM. presti has his warts too.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

yeah, Presti blows RC out of the water in (late) draft talent evaluation..you can't argue with that track record..I just think it is about time the Spurs get something out of their picks..I mean, Kyle Anderson is an NBA player but his ceiling figures to be low even relative to Cojo/George Hill types..Next season is going to be make or break for him..

Late 1st round/early 2nd draft since 2007 when Presti became a Sonics GM :

OKC/Sonics - Spurs
2007 : 31 Carl landry ( traded ) - 28 Tiago Splitter
2008 : 24 Serge Ibaka - 26 George Hill
2009 : 25 R. Beubois ( traded for B Mullens ) - 37 D Blair
2010 : 18 Eric Bledsoe ( traded ), 21 Craig Brackins, 26 Quincy Pondexter ( traded ) - 20 James Anderson
2011 : 24 Reggie Jackson - 15 Kawhi Leonard, 29 Cory Joseph, 42 Davis Bertans
2012 : 28 Perry Jones
2013 : 29 Archie Goodwin ( traded for Robertson via GSW ) - 28 Livio Jean-Charles
2014 : 21 Mitch McGary, 29 Josh Huestis - 30 Kyle Anderson
2015 : - 26 Nikola Milutinov

So which of these years has Presti blown RC out of the water?