What happened to PATFO ability to nail the "small moves"?

[midnightpulp]

I'll be an apologist for PATFO here.

After 2014, pretty much every one of us would've re-signed Diaw and Patty, who were major contributors to number 5. Yes, Diaw has a history of laziness/disinterest, but he showed none of those old habits during his tenure prior to this season, so PATFO, like us, gave him the benefit of the doubt. As I once said, Patty was a poor man's Steph, able to go off at the flick of a switch. We all wanted him back, and he actually did contribute in 2015. No one could've predicted the fall off he had this season.

David West was a very good signing in theory, and I think he still is. Problem is, he's often paired with Boris in the 2nd unit, so his rebounding and defense look worse than they actually are. West performed very well this season when paired with Timmy or LMA.

Kyle Anderson, another nice "theoretical" pick up. Long, versatile, can pass, and has Boris Diaw/Lamar Odom potential as a "matchup nightmare" (won't be as good as those two, though). He just wasn't ready for the WCF spotlight. I still have issues with his lack of athleticism, but it's still too early to completely give up on him.

Boban is nice 3rd string big. We'll see next season if they "nailed" a true sleeper in him when his minutes are increased. He'll never be useful against the Warriors, but if the Thunder stay intact, he'll be needed to deal with Kanter.

I think the FO has made the best moves possible since 2014. Sure, you can always use hindsight bias, but nothing they did stands out as particularly foolish. We did win 67 games (I know, all for naught), but ran into a peaking Thunder team at the time our role players and Timmy's other knee went to . Duncan was 2-15 in our two home losses. He's never performed that badly in such crucial games, so it was obvious the wheels fell off. And with OKC's size, I don't see how we overcome them with a 50% Tim.

[TheGreatYacht]

Late 1st round/early 2nd draft since 2007 when Presti became a Sonics GM :

OKC/Sonics - Spurs
2007 : 31 Carl landry ( traded ) - 28 Tiago Splitter
2008 : 24 Serge Ibaka - 26 George Hill
2009 : 25 R. Beubois ( traded for B Mullens ) - 37 D Blair
2010 : 18 Eric Bledsoe ( traded ), 21 Craig Brackins, 26 Quincy Pondexter ( traded ) - 20 James Anderson
2011 : 24 Reggie Jackson - 15 Kawhi Leonard, 29 Cory Joseph, 42 Davis Bertans
2012 : 28 Perry Jones
2013 : 29 Archie Goodwin ( traded for Robertson via GSW ) - 28 Livio Jean-Charles
2014 : 21 Mitch McGary, 29 Josh Huestis - 30 Kyle Anderson
2015 : - 26 Nikola Milutinov

So which of these years has Presti blown RC out of the water?

Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Serge Ibaka, Jeff Green, Reggie Jackson, Steven Adams, Andre Roberson... Presti transformed a piece of franchise that was starting Earl Watson, Nick Collison and Chris Wilcox into a monster that has contended for years despite having stingy owners who aren't willing to pay and being in a small market. He nailed his high draft picks right away. How long have we seen lottery teams tank and go nowhere?

Also, let's not act like RC never traded away players that ended up having good careers like Luis Scola (for Vassilis Spanoulis), Goran Dragic (for Malik Hairston), Leandro Barbosa, etc.

[TheDoctor]

Hard to pick up decent players when the Spurs are constantly picking in the low 20s. But yeah, it's been a while since the Spurs drafted a good NBA player. Leonard and Joseph were like 5 years ago and the Spurs couldn't even keep Joseph.

Meanwhile, the Thunder are using their 20s pick to draft Ibaka, Reggie Jackson, Roberson. They also drafted Adams and Payne in the lottery, not to mention not screwing up their high draft picks by drafting Durant and Westbrook.. Not too bad of a haul. They even drafted Bledsoe and Goodwin but both were traded away.

& Harden.

[TheGreatYacht]

RC's drafting resume is Tim Duncan (obvious #1 pick in a terrible draft), Tony Parker (who Sam Presti discovered), Manu Ginobili () and Kawhi Leonard ()

[TheDoctor]

- Character

[sananspursfan21]

Having Tim Duncan has masked a lot of the terrible decisions PATFO has made throughout the years, tbh.

Check out this 2004 roster Prime Timmy had to play with

Birth Date	Exp	College
12	Bruce Bowen	SF	6-7	185	June 14, 1971	7	California State University, Fullerton
23	Devin Brown	SG	6-5	220	December 30, 1978	1	University of Texas at San Antonio
3	Matt Carroll	SG	6-6	212	August 28, 1980	R	University of Notre Dame
7	Anthony Carter	PG	6-1	190	June 16, 1975	4	University of Hawaii
21	Tim Duncan	PF	6-11	250	April 25, 1976	6	Wake Forest University
10	Alex Garcia	SG	6-3	220	March 4, 1980	R
20	Manu Ginobili	SG	6-6	205	July 28, 1977	1
1	Jason Hart	PG	6-3	185	April 29, 1978	2	Syracuse University
No.	Player	Pos	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	Exp	College
11	Shane Heal	PG	6-0	180	September 6, 1970	1
5	Robert Horry	PF	6-9	220	August 25, 1970	11	University of Alabama
33	Ron Mercer	SG	6-7	210	May 18, 1976	6	University of Kentucky
8	Rasho Nesterovic	C	7-0	248	May 30, 1976	5
9	Tony Parker	PG	6-2	185	May 17, 1982	2
31	Malik Rose	PF	6-7	250	November 23, 1974	7	Drexel University
14	Hedo Turkoglu	SF	6-10	220	March 19, 1979	3
17	Charlie Ward	PG	6-2	190	October 12, 1970	9	Florida State University
42	Kevin Willis	C	7-0	220	September 6, 1962

So you're going to sit here and try to tell me that Jason Hart was not a major contributor to that team???

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Serge Ibaka, Jeff Green, Reggie Jackson, Steven Adams, Andre Roberson... Presti transformed a piece of franchise that was starting Earl Watson, Nick Collison and Chris Wilcox into a monster that has contended for years despite having stingy owners who aren't willing to pay and being in a small market. He nailed his high draft picks right away. How long have we seen lottery teams tank and go nowhere?

Also, let's not act like RC never traded away players that ended up having good careers like Luis Scola (for Vassilis Spanoulis), Goran Dragic (for Malik Hairston), Leandro Barbosa, etc.

If you're going to use the high lottery picks then I don't see how it'd be a fair comparison, unless you go back all the way to Tim Duncan.

5 of the 8 players you've listed were higher picks than any pick the Spurs have had since Tim Duncan.

As for the other 3. Which set of players would you prefer : Serge, Reggie Jackson ( Kanter ) and Robertson vs Kawhi, CoJo and LJC? I know which ones I'd choose.

[Keepin' it real]

The Spurs have been a legit le contender for the past 5 seasons due to the absurdly prolonged greatness of Duncan (and to a lesser extent, Ginobili, and to an even lesser extent, Parker). This "forced" the Spurs to continue their win-now mindset instead of shifting toward building for the future. Even so, they've been able to trade for KL and sign LMA.

Sure, they might have missed on a few "small moves," but they've gotten two huge moves right, ensuring that at a minimum, the Spurs will remain a solid playoff team with a young MVP-caliber star and a top-5 big man.

You can complain all you want, but I'm good.

[TheGreatYacht]

If you're going to use the high lottery picks then I don't see how it'd be a fair comparison, unless you go back all the way to Tim Duncan.

5 of the 8 players you've listed were higher picks than any pick the Spurs have had since Tim Duncan.

As for the other 3. Which set of players would you prefer : Serge, Reggie Jackson ( Kanter ) and Robertson vs Kawhi, CoJo and LJC? I know which ones I'd choose.

The comparison isn't fair, but Presti's resume speaks for itself. If you gave me one GM to draft for me, it's him.

He hit the lottery with the Kawhi trade, huge props for that
The Cojo pick has an asterisk for me, tbh. He passed up on players like Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas, and Parsons.
LJC didn't stand out in the Summer League, so give me Roberson

[TheGreatYacht]

So you're going to sit here and try to tell me that Jason Hart was not a major contributor to that team???

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The comparison isn't fair, but Presti's resume speaks for itself. If you gave me one GM to draft for me, it's him.

He hit the lottery with the Kawhi trade, huge props for that
The Cojo pick has an asterisk for me, tbh. He passed up on players like Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas, and Parsons.
LJC didn't stand out in the Summer League, so give me Roberson

Presti also passed on Jimmy Butler, etc.

If I could choose a FO to draft it'd be either Spurs or Bulls. Definitely not Lakers or Hawks

[MultiTroll]

Having Tim Duncan has masked a lot of the terrible decisions PATFO has made throughout the years, tbh.

Check out this 2004 roster Prime Timmy had to play with

Birth Date	Exp	College
12	Bruce Bowen	SF	6-7	185	June 14, 1971	7	California State University, Fullerton
23	Devin Brown	SG	6-5	220	December 30, 1978	1	University of Texas at San Antonio
3	Matt Carroll	SG	6-6	212	August 28, 1980	R	University of Notre Dame
7	Anthony Carter	PG	6-1	190	June 16, 1975	4	University of Hawaii
21	Tim Duncan	PF	6-11	250	April 25, 1976	6	Wake Forest University
10	Alex Garcia	SG	6-3	220	March 4, 1980	R
20	Manu Ginobili	SG	6-6	205	July 28, 1977	1
1	Jason Hart	PG	6-3	185	April 29, 1978	2	Syracuse University
No.	Player	Pos	Ht	Wt	Birth Date	Exp	College
11	Shane Heal	PG	6-0	180	September 6, 1970	1
5	Robert Horry	PF	6-9	220	August 25, 1970	11	University of Alabama
33	Ron Mercer	SG	6-7	210	May 18, 1976	6	University of Kentucky
8	Rasho Nesterovic	C	7-0	248	May 30, 1976	5
9	Tony Parker	PG	6-2	185	May 17, 1982	2
31	Malik Rose	PF	6-7	250	November 23, 1974	7	Drexel University
14	Hedo Turkoglu	SF	6-10	220	March 19, 1979	3
17	Charlie Ward	PG	6-2	190	October 12, 1970	9	Florida State University
42	Kevin Willis	C	7-0	220

Solid roster. Could have had more help but...
Prime GNob
Prime Bowen
Prime Robert Horry
Under 30 fat % Porker

2-0 lead on the Lakers in the Semis.
Pop happens.

[DMC]

Some real gems up in here. Team with the best win % in the world of professional sports over the past 20 years and they are overrated. OK.

[Kawhitstorm]

Late 1st round/early 2nd draft since 2007 when Presti became a Sonics GM :

OKC/Sonics - Spurs
2007 : 31 Carl landry ( traded ) - 28 Tiago Splitter
2008 : 24 Serge Ibaka - 26 George Hill
2009 : 25 R. Beubois ( traded for B Mullens ) - 37 D Blair
2010 : 18 Eric Bledsoe ( traded ), 21 Craig Brackins, 26 Quincy Pondexter ( traded ) - 20 James Anderson
2011 : 24 Reggie Jackson - 15 Kawhi Leonard, 29 Cory Joseph, 42 Davis Bertans
2012 : 28 Perry Jones
2013 : 29 Archie Goodwin ( traded for Robertson via GSW ) - 28 Livio Jean-Charles
2014 : 21 Mitch McGary, 29 Josh Huestis - 30 Kyle Anderson
2015 : - 26 Nikola Milutinov

So which of these years has Presti blown RC out of the water?

You also forgot Jeremy Lamb being a key part of the Harden trade.

[TheGreatYacht]

Some real gems up in here. Team with the best win % in the world of professional sports over the past 20 years and they are overrated. OK.

Tim Duncan

[TD 21]

I have no objection to this. Just saying the talent was there to put them over the top. Luck has a lot to do with it, but as I said a good deal of posts back, the Spurs haven't taken as many chances as they should have to find the talent. I don't mean risks, I mean they haven't attempted as many times as they should have. They got guys like Ayres and Daye and kept them for multiple years. They brought 15 guaranteed contracts last October. It's hard to win in a luck-based game when you give about one spin a year.

Fair enough, but you can play that game with every team, in every sport. Sure, most aren't in a position to contend, but to at least be better.

Overall, they've been fine and most of what they've done is easily defensible, as midnightpulp outlined.

TD and manu covering for mistakes / putting guys in position to succeed allowed the team to make those kinds of players good enough for the rotation for it to work. Their decline has made that strategy untenable. I think its a calculated risk thats just part of life for a GM. presti has his warts too.

I'm speaking more to drafting someone like Jean-Charles or acquiring people like Daye or McCallum.