Take flyers? As NBA-Dleague caliber players who haven't had experience not only playing in the NBA but in the Spurs system?
You saw the plays Simmons made this year in the NBA right?? Imagine what you'd be telling me if he was doing that on Hagna team overseas..Simmons is an NBA player. He's was just the 14-15th player on a 67 win team so he gets overlooked and not the proper evaluation
Simmons Stregnths:
Athletic
Aggressive attacking the basket
Finishing at the rim
Drawing fouls
Potential guarding PGs
Cheap contract
System experience
Spurs Weakness:
1 SG on current roster
1 Player who can consistently penetrate and finish at rim
Terrible Defensive PGs
Athleticism
Needs cheap contracts to fill spots incase of max free agent
Seems like he fits like a ing glove
[QUOTE=coachmac87;8612638]I'm not arguing about compe ion../QUOTE]
No, you are arguing about compe ion. You don't just have a one-player contest. There's no score where you go, "Yep, you've shown you're an NBA player. Come on aboard." Hanga would have to earn a spot by competing AGAINST someone else, preferably multiple other players. One of those guys would definitely be Simmons. And if Hanga wins, then Simmons has to beat out other guys to stay on. It doesn't matter if he's "already shown that he's an NBA player". That's not an actual milestone. He has to show he's one of the top 15 guys on the roster.
That doesn't make any sense. We have no idea where Simmons is going to stack up until we see who they add this summer.I guess we view the Spurs roster and talent differently. I think Simmons has a ceiling of 10th player in rotation and 15th being the floor.
The Spurs have seven players currently under a non-option contract next year. Seven. You don't "lock in a 15th spot" when you are going to bring in/bring back 13 other players. Your whole point seems to be that the Spurs shouldn't try to upgrade from Simmons, and that makes no sense. They need to get the best players they can. Their previous 15th guy shouldn't even be in their consideration. The Spurs should acquire as many guys as they can to compete for the bottom of the roster, especially at guard and center.what's wrong locking him in at the 15th spot??
Yes. That's what "taking flyers" means.
Yes. Even you know he was a scrub. You spent most of our previous conversations about this talking about how cheap he is and how he can be a better player with time. Dude wasn't a very good one last year.You saw the plays Simmons made this year in the NBA right??
Overrated. The Spurs will probably draft a more athletic player than Simmons this month. Even if they don't, most teams have multiple players in that category. The way people talk about him, you'd think he were prime Gerald Green.
Not rare. The Spurs can and should acquire at least one guard who can do this better than Simmons. His bad handles hurts his ability to do this, as most of us saw.Aggressive attacking the basket
Yes, but also not rare.Finishing at the rim
Yes, and that's not all that common.Drawing fouls
Nah. He sucked doing that.Potential guarding PGs
You need to get off this. Everyone on his tier is cheap. Most of the guys competing against him will be as cheap or cheaper. "Cheap contract" is a plus for guys like Covington who already play at a high level and are locked into insanely low deals for multiple years. As a 15th man, Simmons is getting paid what he's worth.Cheap contract
Overrated. He has to be able to apply that, which he'll only show by competingSystem experience
This hurts Simmons more than helps him. That makes it more likely that the Spurs will add a notable player in addition to prospects.1 SG on current roster
Yes, this does help him. But again, the Spurs will probably attack that issue this summer.1 Player who can consistently penetrate and finish at rim
No need to add a terrible defensive SG to that.Terrible Defensive PGs
Totally explains why Anderson, Martin and Miller got the nod over Simmons last year.Athleticism
This hurts him more than helps. There will be 10-12 cheap contracts on the roster next season. His deal won't stand out.Needs cheap contracts to fill spots incase of max free agent
Well the Spurs are higher on Simmons than you are..just like they were on Kevin Martin.
If Simmons is as bad as you say he is and him making the team isn't very high why didn't they let him go instead of Butler?
Cmon man. I'm not here with my Simmons pom poms saying he will be a consistent rotation player but he exceeded expectations this year. He didn't play over Martin, Anderson and Miller because of postseason experience..
Again please give me options of guards you think can be prospects that can beat out Simmons or veterans that'll come on the cheap? We will know if Simmons will be on the team before July 1. If they GURANTEE his contract they won't cut him after camp..Why pay for him to play elsewhere? Why pay another salary to replace him on top of that?
Hanga should come in and compete with Fathead for a roster spot, tbh
Simmons isn't going anywhere. He has a great chance to be part of the rotation if he has a good summer. He has a skill-set and talent that is impossible to find on the open market for 800k -- for anything under 5 million. Pop didn't play him in the playoffs because he felt he wasn't ready and because there were more experienced options. He did the same thing with Splitter and Hill.
Chinook just goes the extra mile to try to justify many of his contradicting and outlandish takes. He's the guy who wanted Spurs to go after O'Quinn for 8 million per, the guy who thinks paying Baby Davis II (Sullinger) 12+ mil per is the answer, the guy who thinks West shld start because he can become a reliable three point shooter if Pop just asks him to, I can go on and on like he does on subjective outlandish takes but I don't have the time like he does and I'm sure you don't either.
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 06-03-2016 at 08:33 AM.
I agree with this here.
It's funny to see Chinook bag on Simmons handles when he is the president of the danny green brigade. Mr can't dribble at all. Chinook lets things get to personal I wouldn't sweat him. His following is dwindling with his arrogant at ude.
Personally I'd like to see simmons make that next step and be the backup. He is athletic and we need that
As I told you with Martin, the Spurs liking a guy doesn't make him better. And clearly, that's the way it turned out. I'm not surprised you think the Martin situation validated your take.
Dude, this is getting ridiculous. I've never said Simmons wasn't likely to make the team. I have said that he's not a lock and that I'd personally like to see them bring in guys who can push him out or at least push him to improve. I've said too many times that I am not trying to predict the Spurs' moves or align myself with their opinions. People accept this with Bonner, and some folks do with Anderson. So why this is controversial is beyond me.If Simmons is as bad as you say he is and him making the team isn't very high why didn't they let him go instead of Butler?
Lol at thinking Anderson got the nod because of his handful of garbage-time minutes against the Clippers.Cmon man. I'm not here with my Simmons pom poms saying he will be a consistent rotation player but he exceeded expectations this year. He didn't play over Martin, Anderson and Miller because of postseason experience..
They paid for Fredette to play in the d-league. They cut Daye, McCallum and Butler on guaranteed deals. It's all about having a better options. And no, I don't have to name guards who will be better than him. I have gone through quite a few scenarios where Simmons is on the bubble. Can just be as simple as bringing back the top four guards, drafting one, signing Bertans and having a guy like Hanga or a vet ring-chaser bump him out. Or if they spend their cap space on a guard to replace Manu and do the rest of that. Is that likely? Not very. But it's very possible, and honestly ideal, considering how the guard rotation fell apart last year. They need more talent there, and if they add it, Simmons will have to fight for a spot.Again please give me options of guards you think can be prospects that can beat out Simmons or veterans that'll come on the cheap? We will know if Simmons will be on the team before July 1. If they GURANTEE his contract they won't cut him after camp..Why pay for him to play elsewhere? Why pay another salary to replace him on top of that?
Just answer yourself this question and maybe it'd help you realize something. Why'd they keep Simmons over Butler? You obviously thought Butler was the better "short term" answer. So why they let him go and not Simmons? Just answer me that question honestly and maybe we can end this lol
Last edited by coachmac87; 06-03-2016 at 10:03 AM.
No. This is a logical fallacy. We've been over this too many time. You tried this same with Kevin Martin, and that should have actually shown you why your reasoning was flawed. Makes no sense to double down now.
Fine I'll answer it for you. Simmons showed the Spurs more at the time than Butler did. You disagreed on that and felt maybe Butler could've given more. You could've been right but they didn't..I happen to think a 9-10 year age difference between Butler and Simmons was a factor in the decision. Spurs didn't want to give up on Simmons and with the failure of Martin and the possibly retirement of Manu doesn't change that IMO.
You have a tough time figuring out what the Spurs are thinking and were wrong about the Martin/Butler arguments we had. Why should I feel you're right on Simmons when you can't make a legit case?
It's quite simple. Either they thought Simmons was a better player/option THIS year or they felt his upside was too much of a risk to just let go..You get it now? Or you still going to question my basketball intelligence because of my name?
Last edited by coachmac87; 06-03-2016 at 10:30 AM.
They retained Simmons to give him a chance to improve in the offseason like they did with others before him. He flashed potential but ultimately it's undeniable that he has poor handles for a guy whose game is slashing and he was too foul prone. Sometimes he was benched bc he picked up 3-4 quick fouls. It wasn't even Pop benching him as a teaching lesson.
Its up to him whether he can improve in his second season but he's getting the same opportunity guys like Reggie Williams, Daye, Ayers, and DeColo got all of whom were eventually cut or released when they didn't show any improvement and others beat them in the rotation. Guys like Baynes improved eventually, as did Patty Mills.
It's worth it to give him an opportunity to see if he improves, but if he comes back the same he could very well play even less and I doubt the Spurs are just like "Ok you got it" They may actually try to get someone better for the bench if Manu retires.
For someone with "bad handles" sure does get into the paint quite a bit...
The thing Simmons needs to work on is midrange game and 3ball
He does have bad handles and they will show up when he plays real minutes not garbage time, when guys play no defense. He did TO at a high rate and it wasn't passing, it was simply him getting stripped or losing the handle. He had the same trouble in the dleague. He's a good cutter, and catches lobs. Not all of his finishes are off the dribble. It's actually when he has to make plays off the dribble that his weaknesses do show. But whatever, you are actually a fan of his pom poms and all, and I am not against Simms. But him getting beat in the rotation by Anderson was of his own doing, and next season there is likely to be more compe ion.
If he stays the same he's likely gone.
He'll be 27 by the time training camp rolls around so I doubt he's going to improve much beyond what you saw last year. He's what you call a tweener, too good for the D-league but, not quite good enough to make it at the NBA level. The Spurs are absolutely screwed if Simmons somehow squeezes into the rotation with Anderson. I'd like to say this in the most sincere, unoffensive way that I can without stomping all over your feelings but the adjectives that best describe his game are filthy, trashy, obscene, crummy, feculent, putrid and stinky.
Thanks for being polite.
Most here are not.
Hanga has talent. The things he's excelling at in this vid will be there in the NBA. It would be awesome to have another ball-hawk on the roster.
He definitely had his TO troubles dribbling. It wasn't god awful, but it was certainly bad enough for him to lose points on his slashing. The most concerning thing for me is that Simmons was very prone to melting down for stretches. It wasn't like he'd pick up a TO or two a game. He'd have games where he just couldn't do anything right. And he had some games (mostly garbage time but some legit games too) where he'd hold it together. He lacks poise, and that's why I think he has to compete for a spot. He seemed to play his worst when he wasn't being coddled and guaranteed a job. He's going to have to get over that.
I said Butler was better than Martin. You said he was't because the Spurs picked Martin over Butler. I pointed out to you that is a fallacy. Martin was by almost any measure the worst Spur on the team last season, much worse than Butler. There's no way you or anyone else who watched the team last season can argue. The Spurs were wrong, and you were wrong. There's no shame in being wrong. I thought Ayres would be a starter one day. But your issue is that you don't want to believe you're wrong.
Last time, seriously: I am not trying to predict what the Spurs will do. I don't care what they will do. I'll find that out when it happens. Instead, I am talking about what I think they SHOULD do. Sometimes that matches up with reality. Sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, sometimes it works out for the better, and sometimes it doesn't.
Read over that thread yourself:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...84#post8449584
Whipping out the same tired, "Who are you to disagree with PATFO?" line again.
There's just meanies everywhere. It's a rough world. I hope your tender little heart will be ok.
Most here are not.
That is a good observation. I don't think I have seen you summarize it this well and you are right.
I have attributed his mistakes to just him not being that good and thus elite compe ion getting the better of him, but there can be lack of concentration or frustration. You are right that if he makes a mistake he lets that affect the rest of his game, and he has had terrible games where absolutely nothing goes right. He was absolutely ghastly in preseason too when he was under pressure and he played his worst for the season again when he was counted on bc we were understaffed.
Wait a minute...are you talking about green or simmons?
You do realize that I never said Green has good handles, right?
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