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LOLOLOLOLOLThe only 2-way player that's in the Spurs budget & could be on PATFO's radar is Marvin Williams. As far as PGs, Delly is the next best 2-way player after Conley.
There is no way PATFO are trading Porker to clear cap space for Conley so 2016 is going to be the Pau lottery, maybe this poAst will finally get closure.
I fully expect 'em to go after G.Hill in 2017 & figure out what they want to do w/ the rest of the roster once Tim/Manu are COMPLETELY out of the picture.
Looking at the next 3 FA classes, maybe Tim decides to hang it up this summer & Pau gets a 2yr/20 mill deal then PATFO decided to retool in 2018 when Porker becomes a free agent. Unless he gets traded, they might be able to steal Favors away from the Jazz considering they have Trey Lyles who's more of a 21st century PF & could be re-signed for a much cheaper deal. (They let Big Al/Boozer walk for nothing & they also let Millsap walk for nothing after refusing to trade him)
Your 2018-19 Spurs:
G. Hill
Danny
Kawhi
LMA
Favors
LOLOLOLOLOLThe only 2-way player that's in the Spurs budget & could be on PATFO's radar is Marvin Williams. As far as PGs, Delly is the next best 2-way player after Conley.
Harlem u on GSW +1 tomorrow? I'll tail if yes
There's risk in pretty much every signing..it's about capitalizing out Pops and LMA and Kawhi contracts. Conley isn't disgusting by any means tbh. Conley can get by defenders with his handle unlike and is a better passer than Parker. His shooting had actually improved through his career and I expect it'd continue.
Do I think Conley to Spurs is likely? No. But evaluating him as a player on this team..his strength are the Spurs weakness.
Again far from disgusting.
Here are some underrated/ overlooked versatile, athletic two way players I want SA to go after: Spurs could probably get great value on all of these guys as most of them just had let down years because of injury or lack of playing time because of minute heavy players ahead of them. I hope they can at-least get 1 or 2 guys I have my eyes on.
Center: Miles Plumlee (Restricted) - mobile C who can move feet on D in PnRs, protect rim, rebound, excellent diver in PnRs and different sets of motion. Likely won't be matched w/25+mil per committed to Monroe and Henson and w/ Parker increase of minutes next year. Great buy low opportunity.
PF/C: Terrence Jones (Restricted) - was a solid defender his first 3 years in league. Has ability to finish inside well, has great size , mobility, and great athleticism. Had a down year last year because of he had problems with a nerve in his leg. Perfect buy low opportunity -- good chance Rockets let him go.
SF/PF: Maurice Harkless (Restricted)- Three and D with hybrid SF- PF versatility. Underrated defender, good all around game. Hard to see Blazers matching both Harkless & Crabbe) Spurs may have a chance to get one.
SF/SG: Allen Crabbe (Restricted) - 3 & D wing w/ athleticism. See above
SF/PF: Solomon Hill - 3 & D wing w/size to play small ball 4. Underrated defender -- scrappy with good motor. Minutes were down this year, as is his value because of Paul Georges' return.
Other overlooked versatile players that I'm interested outside my top 5: Jonas Jerebko, E'Twaun Moore ( wld be improvement over Patty and hes an underrated defender).
Less skilled players I'm interested in for end of bench: Willie Reed (most upside), PJ Tucker (better centerpiece, LAs' kinfoke), Quincy Acy (surprisingly increased his range to 3 point line last yr, athletic, tough player).
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 06-08-2016 at 12:57 AM.
Leaning yes, but haven't placed it, yet..
I prefer Gerald Henderson over Harkless. Also TJones was damn bad awful. I really like Quincy Acy. He actually suits our play style. Tucker, I like his game but is a bit of a headcase and doesn't suit our players personality.
Did you even read what I wrote about Jones?
We would give up some height with the Favors-LMA pairing, but I actually love it. Favors is a good defender especially in help defense, so it could easily hide some of LMA's shortcomings, while still open up some space with his midrange J. But his contract is not that bad that Jazz would just give it up.There is no way PATFO are trading Porker to clear cap space for Conley so 2016 is going to be the Pau lottery, maybe this poAst will finally get closure.
I fully expect 'em to go after G.Hill in 2017 & figure out what they want to do w/ the rest of the roster once Tim/Manu are COMPLETELY out of the picture.
Looking at the next 3 FA classes, maybe Tim decides to hang it up this summer & Pau gets a 2yr/20 mill deal then PATFO decided to retool in 2018 when Porker becomes a free agent. Unless he gets traded, they might be able to steal Favors away from the Jazz considering they have Trey Lyles who's more of a 21st century PF & could be re-signed for a much cheaper deal. (They let Big Al/Boozer walk for nothing & they also let Millsap walk for nothing after refusing to trade him)
Your 2018-19 Spurs:
G. Hill
Danny
Kawhi
LMA
Favors
Favors will be a free agent in 2018 & would most likely ask for a max.
A bunch of wings & hybrid forwards who aren't that much of an upgrade over Fathead, Simmons & Diaw especially dollar for dollar. Blazers have a ton of cap space so they could re-sign Crabbe/Harkless using their Bird Rights after they address their starting PF/C issue using their cap space.
I like Moore as the 4th guard, he's like a poor man's George Hill.
Aren't that much of an upgrade? Fathead isn't close from an athletic standpoint and he doesn't compare to Harkless, Crabbe or Solomon from a defensive perspective either.
And in Diaws' case, he can't defend anymore but he'll likely be gone anyway -- so his spot will be open and not sure why you included him -- he's pretty irrelevant after reading Buck Harveys' article.
Harkless and Crabbe are restricted, but I hope Spurs go after one of them on modest deal in 6-7 mil per range. Hard to imagine Blazers matching both -- if Blazers match so be it, move on . I'm just pointing out the players in free agency that are overlooked, that are versatile, and that are able to defend more than one position well -- all while being able to be effective without the ball on offense. These are the type of players Spurs need to be going for and not great names who NEED the ball and can't play defense (Gasol).
I also hope Spurs shop around Anderson for a late 1st/ early 2nd round pick to free up compe ion between Bertans and an upgrade from Anderson (via Free Agency). I'd prefer Harkless -- he could be the back up PF/SF (depending on match-ups). He would give the Spurs the third perimeter defender they desperately need and add tremendous defensive versatility. I'd take Solomon Hill over Anderson as well for the same reasons.
In regards to Simmons, I think if Manu retires, Simmons will win/earn the back up SG spot. He has the physical traits to be a nice defender, he just needs to gain more confidence and be more sure of himself to help his mental approach. He shot the ball from three well last year despite being reluctant to really let it rip. He also has a great game when reacting to hard close outs off the catch -- he finished inside strong or found his open teammate better than anyone on the team not named Kawhi, Manu, and Tony this past season.
I like Moore too, the guy is as tough as nails and has improved every year in the league. I have a feeling teams have caught up on him and a team like the Knicks may overbid.
In my perfect world, I'd love for Spurs to bring in Plumlee on a 2+1 deal for 4-5 mil per and Harkless on 4 yr deal for 32-35 mil (only way to get Por to include 4 years IMO). I'm high on Harkless -- he's only 23 and you could see the lights finally turn on for him in the playoffs in stints-- he's about to turn the corner and be a solid, two way, hybrid player in this league. With the remaining space of 5-6 mil on Aldrich or try bringing over Milutinov. Before that happens I'd do everything I can to use Diaw/Mills/Kyle Anderson to bring in an upgrade at PG position.
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 06-08-2016 at 04:51 PM.
Well aware that center is his best position. If the rotational bigs are LMA, West, Boban, and Gasol I do not like the idea of pairing him and LMA together. Gasol is still an excellent offensive player and can board but the only area that he is really passable on defense is post defense. He has long arms and can block shots on a fairly consistent basis but I would rather Boban start and play the Blair role ( about 18mpg) Gasol would still get 25mpg+ and could play for long stretches but would play about 14 of those minutes against backups and have his deficiencies minimized.
Interesting enough he had the best defensive rtg on any of Chicago's bigs ,including Gibson, at 101. If he posted such a low rtg on such a mediocre defensive team (The Bulls were 15th in Defensive Rtg) then maybe the Spurs could figure out how to have a top tier defense with him playing 28-30 mpg.
$10 M on a $92M cap (9.2 %) is actually below the mid level when compared to this years MLE, which was about 12.8.% of the cap. At 17 ppg, and 11 rpg he is definitely worth more than $10 M probably closer to $12M. $6 was more wishful thinking than anything. If my scenario plays out like that I am not sure I would want go that high for him, I would also expect him to want a two year deal which would affect 2017.
I wonder if the Spurs could swing swap of Diaw for Taj Gibson ,in place of Gasol. Not sure if Chi would go for it straight up but Diaw is $2 million cheaper this year, granted Diaw is making $7 Million after next season but it is only partially guaranteed.
He is an above average defender, good midrange shooter, a good athlete and a couple of years younger than Diaw.
Last edited by cd021; 06-08-2016 at 12:36 PM.
I was more so talking about the rest of the guys other than Crabbe/Harkless who I think the Blazers will retain. Solomon isn't that much better than Simmons.
It depends on whether or not Tim/Manu are going to retire. If they are going to opt-in then PATFO are better served using the MLE rather than waiving Diaw just to free up a meager 4 mill.And in Diaws' case, he can't defend anymore but he'll likely be gone anyway -- so his spot will be open and not sure why you included him -- he's pretty irrelevant after reading Buck Harveys' article.
The Blazers are more likely to let Gerald Henderson walk than the younger combo of Harkless/Crabbe when they have the cap space (40 mill) & their Bird Rights considering they aren't going to get better/cheaper replacements. They might let Meyers Leonard walk since they have Vonleh/Plumlee on top of whomever they will be pursing in free agency (Ezeli?)Harkless and Crabbe are restricted, but I hope Spurs go after one of them on modest deal in 6-7 mil per range. Hard to imagine Blazers matching both -- if Blazers match so be it, move on
If PATFO plan on big fish hunting in 2018, they could use Pau as a stop gap for 2 years (assuming Tim retires this summer). The team isn't winning shyt w/ Porker at the helms so might as well wait it out till 2018 & catch a big fish. Next summer, Patty will be a free-agent & Diaw's contract is COMPLETELY unguaranteed so they could pick up someone like George Hill to upgrade the PG spot. Then in 2018, they can take a shot at Favors & maybe Chris Paul will be ring chasing.I'm just pointing out the players in free agency that are overlooked, that are versatile, and that are able to defend more than one position well -- all while being able to be effective without the ball on offense. These are the type of players Spurs need to be going for and not great names who NEED the ball and can't play defense (Gasol).
Fathead has a cheap contract so it wouldn't make sense to dump him when he can eat up minutes in the regular season unless PATFO just want to re-tool w/ role players rather than chasing a big fish. IMO, Kyle will be on the roster until his rookie contract runs out ala Blair.I also hope Spurs shop around Anderson for a late 2nd round pick to free up compe ion between Bertans and an upgrade from Anderson (via Free Agency). I'd prefer Harkless -- he could be the back up PF/SF (depending on match-ups). He would give the Spurs the third perimeter defender they desperately need and add tremendous defensive versatility. I'd take Solomon Hill over Anderson as well for the same reasons.
If Manu retires then Simmons is going to get those Devin Brown minutes.In regards to Simmons, I think if Manu retires, Simmons will win/earn the back up SG spot. He has the physical traits to be a nice defender, he just needs to gain more confidence and be more sure of himself to help his mental approach. He shot the ball from three well last year despite being reluctant to really let it rip. He also has a great game when reacting to hard close outs off the catch -- he finished inside strong or found his open teammate better than anyone on the team not named Kawhi, Manu, and Tony this past season.
If PATFO plan on going after KD in 2017 then they will probably bring back the crew & sign a rotation player for the MLE (most likely a backup center: 1yr for Mozgov?).In my perfect world, I'd love for Spurs to bring in Plumlee on a 2+1 deal for 4-5 mil per and Harkless on 4 yr deal for 32-35 mil (only way to get Por to include 4 years IMO). I'm high on Harkless -- he's only 23 and you could see the lights finally turn on for him in the playoffs in stints-- he's about to turn the corner and be a solid, two way, hybrid player in this league. With the remaining space of 5-6 mil on Aldrich or try bringing over Milutinov. Before that happens I'd do everything I can to use Diaw/Mills/Kyle Anderson to bring in an upgrade at PG position.
Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 06-08-2016 at 01:20 PM.
You can hate on Anderson all you want bc it's your prerogative but he's not getting traded for a second round pick. Your personal evaluation of him does not correspond with PATFO who has given him time to develop as he did with Cojo, who was always underrated while he was here but he could play ball. It's more likely they let him develop and see what they really have there than trade him for basically a roster spot bc he's in a very cheap contract and the guys you could get for what he is paid will not give you comparable production. Once you keep spouting nonsense wanting to trade him fir a second round pick I just can't take anything else you suggest seriously.
Now if he's part of a package with someone else for an upgrade that would make sense, but to just trade him bc you don't think he has any value to the organization right now is flat out stupid.
Cory Joseph played defense and attacked the rim, though.
I meant late 1st/ early 2nd round pick for Anderson.. It was a typo. The draft has great potential role players in that late 1st to early-mid 2nd round range. Actually one of the best drafts for quality role player potential I've seen from 20-50 range in the past 10-15 years.
Spurs would be better off starting off clean with a new talented rookie on a 3-4 year cheap rookie deal than stick w/ Anderson another year or two. Why is that?
His rookie deal is up in few years and Spurs will either try to trade him now or next year to get value for him before they let him walk in free agency -- where some desperate team may see potential that isn't there because he lacks any kind of motor or athletic ability to reach another level (its 2016 not 1980). If Spurs aren't sold on him becoming a key top 6-8 player on the contender team they're trying to build -- its best to field offers now when he has value before they simply let him walk in Free Agency and have nothing to show for him.
I know, Conley was just an example.There is no way PATFO are trading Porker to clear cap space for Conley so 2016 is going to be the Pau lottery, maybe this poAst will finally get closure.
I don't see Crabbe and Harkless being attainable barring an astronomical offer.
If the Rockets get something significant done, Jones may be attainable, but even with him seemingly falling out of favor, it's still going to take something relatively significant to pry him away.
Whether the Celtics pick up Jerebko's option likely depends on if they can get something significant done.
Tucker is not an end of bench type; he's a rotation player and as such, he'll cost a relatively significant amount.
Plumlee, Hill, Moore, Reed and Acy, are all attainable and depending on a variety of factors, I'd be fine with them in certain roles, but they're not moving the needle.
Center is not only Gasol's "best position", it's his only position at this point.
There's no way those four will make up the rotational bigs. That would be a ton of money (if West doesn't retire, there's no reason to think he won't opt out and want a significant raise) for a group that would possess even less range/mobility than the four from this season.
If you don't like the idea of a Aldridge/Gasol pairing, then you don't like the idea of Gasol on the Spurs, because that's the only role he'd sign for.
He might very well be able to command $12M; $10M is just a guess. With how much he's made, if he really wants to be a Spur and contend again, then he'll have to be cognizant of the fact that they have limited financial resources and a need in the back court too.
A Diaw for Gibson trade wouldn't really accomplish anything for the Bulls, so I doubt they'd have interest.
I don't think people, including yourself, are taking into account that they could possibly want to build onto last years core by adding bigger fish around them, instead of just s ing out money for complacency outside of internal growth. I could see them rather spending money on upgrades like Horford, Clarkson (6th man), Ryan Anderson, Harrison Barnes, Evan Turner, offering Al Jefferson a hefty 1+1 deal, ect. Better options are out there and they have the money to do it. If not or if they whiff on bigger free agents this summer , I'm sure Olshey is well aware of next summer and may be hesitant to take on Harkless/Crabbe for 6-8 mil per for 4 years because they still have to pay Plumlee and CJ rather soon.
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 06-08-2016 at 05:29 PM.
I don't know why the vast majority think quality RFA's are actually available. The reality is, they almost never are, oftentimes even if the number required to retain them is astronomical, if for no other reason than asset retention.
It's possible what you say comes to fruition, but by far the most likely outcome, is them being re-signed.
Besides, the Spurs have limited financial flexibility (sure, there's plenty of potential paths to opening up more, but outside of maybe Diaw, they're all unlikely) and core needs. They can't afford to splurge on role players and even if they did, they're not moving the needle.
I don't think they will re-sign Plumlee next season if they pick up a rim protector this summer since they have Vonleh/Ed Davis under contract. Plumlee is 26 & is probably going to get overpaid next summer since the center market will be pretty dry. They could re-sign Harkless & play him at the 4 spot while Crabbe would be their 6th man for the near future.
They might also trade CJ b/c the Lillard/CJ backcourt might be the worst defensive combo on any playoff team.
People think differently.
Bottom line. If TD/Manu retire, I hope Spurs do not bring back most players (West: opts out don't re-sign him, Mills (look to package for upgrade at PG) , Diaw (look to package to upgrade PG or waive him), Martin, Miller, Bonner) and just add Gasol -- they'll take a step back and be starting the process a year later than they should have.
Spurs need to go after two-way youth and athleticism now, because that's the only way they'll have a chance with the Warriors and OKC next year anyway and for the next 3 years.
I hate the idea of just putting everything on pause for a year or two and plug in a player like 36 year old Gasol. It just prolongs the direction they inevitably need to go to compete with OKC and GS year in and year out for the next 5 years.
And yes, I believe with subtle moves, bringing in the right underrated, athletic, two-way role players that fit around the Aldridge, Kawhi, Green nucleus could be all they need. They were close last year w/ OKC despite the old role players like West, Duncan, Manu, Mills, Diaw all ting the bed on both ends. And some of yall want to bring them back and just add another 36 year old player who can't play defense and that NEEDS the ball to have any type of value on the court? Makes no sense to me.
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 06-08-2016 at 08:41 PM.
The Spurs match up much better w/ OKC than GSW, Porker/Patty were able to hide on Roberson/Foye/Payne (even then they got burnt at times:
-Ibaka was getting WIDE OPEN looks EVERY time they put LMA in a PnR
-Adams was getting dunks or WestBrick was getting a WIDE OPEN mid-range shots EVERY time they put Tim in a PnR
-How many times did D-Worst/Patty end up getting switched onto Durant when he was running the 2nd unit?
..the Spurs should have beaten a low IQ OKC team who weren't exploiting the Spurs weakness (besides crashing the boards) & kept trying to attack the DPOY w/ WestBrick while LMA just chills on defense.
As far as GSW:
Tim was essentially unplayable against GSW in the regular season & D-Worst got raped in the paint worse than he did against OKC. The X-Factor was Diaw who played ZERO defense in the playoffs & feasted on Barnes (rather than Draymond ) in the Spurs' lone win.
The Spurs struggled mightily in the regular season to score against GSW even when they were cruising, imagine Porker/Kawhi/LMA/Diaw trying to score on Klay/Iggy/Bogut/Ezeli/Draymond w/ that 90s ISO ball offense. Curry would also have been resting on defense while hiding on Danny.
They also have Livingston to lockup Manu & Barbosa would have mauled Patty considering how he's giving Delly that work.
**Again, the Spurs aren't beating GSW w/ Porker at the helms so any signing that doesn't involve in him getting moved is pointless & would screw-up the cap-space if PATFO want to go after a marquee FA**'
Basically, if Porker isn't getting moved then sign Pau as a stop gap then splurged in 2018. In the mean time, if GSW gets bounced by OKC (ala the Spurs avoiding Mavs in '07 & OKC in '13) then that roster would still have a shot against OKC especially if PATFO can upgrade Patty even w/ someone like Moore. D-Worst would be addition by subtraction & Diaw might decide to actually earn his paycheck. Pop couldn't coach any worse either.
PATFO need to take note from Danny Ainge & the Celtics about cutting bait w/ aging players:
The "Big 3" era Celtics lucked out & almost beat the Heatles in 2012 when Bosh was only available for the final 3 games of the series. Ray Allen saw it as a fluke & signed w/ the Heat while the Celtics integrated "two-way players" (Jeff Green/Courtney Lee/Avery Bradley) into their rotation along w/ adding Terry as a Ray Allen's replacement & got a reality check even before Rondo go injured. Not giving a about loyality, Ainge got himself a haul for KG/Pierce & tried to build around Rondo who got exposed as a fake franchise player. Even then Ainge got Crowder & a 1st rd pick which has allowed them to fasttrack their rebuilding process.
The good thing for the Spurs is that Kawhi happens to be a LEGIT franchise cornerstone unlike Rondo & they don't need to recruit a wing-man (just need a LEGIT 3rd wheel, preferably a point-guard) since they already got one last summer. All they have to do is dump Diaw/Porker/Patty & send Tim/Tony to their retirement homes so they can retool the roster on the fly otherwise a Spurs/GSW series is going to end up like the 2011 Heat/Celtics series.
Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 06-08-2016 at 10:21 PM.
just reflecting on the past.......
Really Nicca! Really! Its to damn early to be playing gms son..
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