Iran nuke deal: Ben Rhodes admits he duped the public

[boutons_deux]

I stand humbly refuted by cogent counter-arguments from TB

[TeyshaBlue]

I stand humbly refuted by cogent counter-arguments from TB

It doesnt take much

[boutons_deux]

It doesnt take much

less TB shooting blanks

[TeyshaBlue]

Facile Coward.

[boutons_deux]

Facile Coward.

less, -slapped, butt-hurt stalker TB

[TeyshaBlue]

delusional, slapped boutons.

Go see what Maddow tells you to think.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Iran tops list of State sponsors of terrorism

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2015/257520.htm

IRAN
Designated as a State Sponsor of Terrorism in 1984, Iran continued its terrorist-related activity in 2015, including support for Hizballah, Palestinian terrorist groups in Gaza, and various groups in Iraq and throughout the Middle East. In 2015, Iran increased its assistance to Iraqi Shia terrorist groups, including Kata’ib Hizballah (KH), which is a U.S. designated Foreign Terrorist Organization, as part of an effort to fight the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) in Iraq and bolster the Asad regime in Syria. Iran used the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps-Qods Force (IRGC-QF) to implement foreign policy goals, provide cover for intelligence operations, and create instability in the Middle East. The IRGC-QF is Iran’s primary mechanism for cultivating and supporting terrorists abroad.
Iran views the Asad regime in Syria as a crucial ally, a pillar in its “resistance” front together with sub-national groups aligned with Iran, and a key link to Hizballah, Iran’s primary beneficiary and terrorist partner. In addition to its ongoing support for Hizballah in Syria, Iran continued to provide arms, financing, training, and the facilitation of primarily Iraqi, Afghan, and Pakistani Shia fighters to support the Asad regime’s brutal crackdown that has resulted in the deaths of more than 250,000 people in Syria. Iran more openly acknowledged the deaths of Iranian personnel in Syria in 2015, including several senior commanders, and increased Iranian troop levels, while continuing to claim publicly that Iranian forces had only deployed in an advisory role.
In Iraq, Iranian combat forces employed rockets, artillery, and drones against ISIL. Iran also increased its arming and funding of Iraqi Shia terrorist groups in an effort to reverse ISIL gains in Iraq. Many of these groups, such as KH, have exacerbated sectarian tensions in Iraq and have committed serious human rights abuses against primarily Sunni civilians. The IRGC-QF, in concert with Hizballah, provided training outside of Iraq, as well as advisors inside Iraq for Shia militants in the construction and use of advanced weaponry. Similar to Hizballah fighters, many of these trained Shia militants have used these skills to fight for the Asad regime in Syria or against ISIL in Iraq.
Iran has also provided weapons, funding, and training to Shia militants in Bahrain. In 2015, the Government of Bahrain raided, interdicted, and rounded up numerous Iran-sponsored weapons caches, arms transfers, and militants. This includes the Bahraini government’s discovery of a bomb-making facility with 1.5 tons of high-grade explosives in September.
Iran has historically provided weapons, training, and funding to Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups, including Palestine Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command. These Palestinian terrorist groups have been behind a number of deaths from attacks originating in Gaza and the West Bank. Although Hamas’s ties to Tehran have been strained due to the Syrian civil war, both sides took steps in 2015 to repair relations. Iran continued to declare its vocal support for Palestinian terrorist groups and its hostility to Israel in 2015. Supreme National Security Council Secretary Admiral Ali Shamkhani sought to frame a series of individual Palestinian attacks on Israeli security forces in the West Bank as a new “Intifada” in a speech on November 25.
Since the end of the 2006 Israeli-Hizballah conflict in 2006, Iran has also assisted in rearming Hizballah, in direct violation of UNSCR 1701. Iran has provided hundreds of millions of dollars in support of Hizballah in Lebanon and has trained thousands of its fighters at camps in Iran. These trained fighters have used these skills in direct support of the Asad regime in Syria and, to a lesser extent, in support of operations against ISIL in Iraq. They have also carried out isolated attacks along the Lebanese border with Israel.
Iran remained unwilling to bring to justice senior al-Qa’ida (AQ) members it continued to detain and refused to publicly identify the members in its custody. Iran previously allowed AQ facilitators to operate a core facilitation pipeline through Iran since at least 2009, enabling AQ to move funds and fighters to South Asia and Syria.

[RandomGuy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/ma...guru.html?_r=1


too long to copy/paste

for the tl/dr crowd:

The White House consciously created an "echo chamber" of experts and commentators to shape the public's perception of the Iran deal: "We created an echo chamber," Rhodes told The Times' David Samuels. "They were saying things that validated what we had given them to say ... We had test drives to know who was going to be able to carry our message effectively. So we knew the tactics that worked."
Rhodes' "story" of the Iran deal began in 2013, but it was not the full story: As many foreign-policy experts have noted, Obama began negotiating with Iran at least a year before Hassan Rouhani, Iran's new "moderate" president, defeated Iran's hardliners in a landslide 2013 election. Still, Samuels wrote, "The idea that there was a new reality in Iran was politically useful to the Obama administration."
The administration "is not betting on" Iran's moderates being real reformers: "I would prefer that it turns out that Rouhani and [foreign minister] Zarif are real reformers who are going to be steering this country into the direction that I believe it can go in, because their public is educated and, in some respects, pro-American," he told Samuels. "But we are not betting on that."
Former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta is not sure Obama is still "serious" about preventing Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon: Part of Panetta's job in holding up the nuclear deal was to assure Israel that Obama would not allow Iran to develop an atomic weapon. "Would I make that same assessment now? Probably not," he tells Samuels.
Others provided a glimpse into the administration's perception of political "experts" and the press:

• Rhodes hates Washington's foreign-policy establishment — and doesn't care if they hate him back: He refers to the foreign-policy elite, which he said includes Hillary Clinton and Robert Gates, as "the Blob," and he "gives zero [expletive] about what most people in Washington think," said Jon Favreau, the Obama campaign's former lead speechwriter.
• The White House relies on "handpicked Beltway insiders" to help the administration spread its message: These apparently include The Atlantic's Jeffrey Goldberg and Al-Monitor's Laura Rozen.
• Rhodes thinks most of the reporters the White House has to deal with "literally know nothing": "They call us to explain to them what's happening in Moscow and Cairo," Rhodes told Samuels. "Most of the outlets are reporting on world events from Washington. The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old, and their only reporting experience consists of being around political campaigns. That's a sea change. They literally know nothing."

Soooooo an administration managed public perception?

I'm shocked, shocked I say.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Soooooo an administration managed public perception?

I'm shocked, shocked I say.

Deleting video and lying about said video is simply "managing public perception"?

[boutons_deux]

Deleting video and lying about said video is simply "managing public perception"?

Repugs LYING their way into Iraq for BigOil. Where were your protests in March 2003?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Repugs LYING their way into Iraq for BigOil. Where were your protests in March 2003?

I'm going to get a list of use out of this one aren't I?

The Irony

False equivalence, typical rightwingnut bull of "can't defend our right wing assholes, so let's pull down the non-rightwingers"

[boutons_deux]

I'm going to get a list of use out of this one aren't I?

The Irony

Repugs LYING their way into Iraq for BigOil. Where were your innumerable protests in March 2003?

[RandomGuy]

Deleting video and lying about said video is simply "managing public perception"?

No idea what you are referring to. I didn't bother reading the whole thing, and relied on your copy there in the OP.

Link/excerpt?

Who lied about what?

[RandomGuy]

Iran tops list of State sponsors of terrorism

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2015/257520.htm

IRAN
Designated as a State Sponsor of Terrorism in 1984, Iran continued its terrorist-related activity in 2015, including support for Hizballah, Palestinian terrorist groups in Gaza, and various groups in Iraq and throughout the Middle East. In 2015, Iran increased its assistance to Iraqi Shia terrorist groups, including Kata’ib Hizballah (KH), which is a U.S. designated Foreign Terrorist Organization, as part of an effort to fight the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) in Iraq and bolster the Asad regime in Syria. Iran used the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps-Qods Force (IRGC-QF) to implement foreign policy goals, provide cover for intelligence operations, and create instability in the Middle East. The IRGC-QF is Iran’s primary mechanism for cultivating and supporting terrorists abroad.
Iran views the Asad regime in Syria as a crucial ally, a pillar in its “resistance” front together with sub-national groups aligned with Iran, and a key link to Hizballah, Iran’s primary beneficiary and terrorist partner. In addition to its ongoing support for Hizballah in Syria, Iran continued to provide arms, financing, training, and the facilitation of primarily Iraqi, Afghan, and Pakistani Shia fighters to support the Asad regime’s brutal crackdown that has resulted in the deaths of more than 250,000 people in Syria. Iran more openly acknowledged the deaths of Iranian personnel in Syria in 2015, including several senior commanders, and increased Iranian troop levels, while continuing to claim publicly that Iranian forces had only deployed in an advisory role.
In Iraq, Iranian combat forces employed rockets, artillery, and drones against ISIL. Iran also increased its arming and funding of Iraqi Shia terrorist groups in an effort to reverse ISIL gains in Iraq. Many of these groups, such as KH, have exacerbated sectarian tensions in Iraq and have committed serious human rights abuses against primarily Sunni civilians. The IRGC-QF, in concert with Hizballah, provided training outside of Iraq, as well as advisors inside Iraq for Shia militants in the construction and use of advanced weaponry. Similar to Hizballah fighters, many of these trained Shia militants have used these skills to fight for the Asad regime in Syria or against ISIL in Iraq.
Iran has also provided weapons, funding, and training to Shia militants in Bahrain. In 2015, the Government of Bahrain raided, interdicted, and rounded up numerous Iran-sponsored weapons caches, arms transfers, and militants. This includes the Bahraini government’s discovery of a bomb-making facility with 1.5 tons of high-grade explosives in September.
Iran has historically provided weapons, training, and funding to Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups, including Palestine Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command. These Palestinian terrorist groups have been behind a number of deaths from attacks originating in Gaza and the West Bank. Although Hamas’s ties to Tehran have been strained due to the Syrian civil war, both sides took steps in 2015 to repair relations. Iran continued to declare its vocal support for Palestinian terrorist groups and its hostility to Israel in 2015. Supreme National Security Council Secretary Admiral Ali Shamkhani sought to frame a series of individual Palestinian attacks on Israeli security forces in the West Bank as a new “Intifada” in a speech on November 25.
Since the end of the 2006 Israeli-Hizballah conflict in 2006, Iran has also assisted in rearming Hizballah, in direct violation of UNSCR 1701. Iran has provided hundreds of millions of dollars in support of Hizballah in Lebanon and has trained thousands of its fighters at camps in Iran. These trained fighters have used these skills in direct support of the Asad regime in Syria and, to a lesser extent, in support of operations against ISIL in Iraq. They have also carried out isolated attacks along the Lebanese border with Israel.
Iran remained unwilling to bring to justice senior al-Qa’ida (AQ) members it continued to detain and refused to publicly identify the members in its custody. Iran previously allowed AQ facilitators to operate a core facilitation pipeline through Iran since at least 2009, enabling AQ to move funds and fighters to South Asia and Syria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E...3Contra_affair

At least we aren't selling guns to Iran/Hezbollah. That would be horrible.

[TheSanityAnnex]

No idea what you are referring to. I didn't bother reading the whole thing, and relied on your copy there in the OP.

Link/excerpt?

Who lied about what?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/01/politi...ml?eref=rss_us

[TheSanityAnnex]

No idea what you are referring to. I didn't bother reading the whole thing, and relied on your copy there in the OP.

Link/excerpt?

Who lied about what?

Thoughts on the provided link?

[RandomGuy]

Thoughts on the provided link?

Sooooo, someone wanted to keep secret talks secret?

That about sum it up?

I should care because...?

Fill in the blanks here, don't make me do your work. I'm a very busy guy.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Sooooo, someone wanted to keep secret talks secret?

That about sum it up?

I should care because...?

Fill in the blanks here, don't make me do your work. I'm a very busy guy.

If you find nothing wrong with that there is no point in discussing further.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sooooo, someone wanted to keep secret talks secret?

That about sum it up?

I should care because...?

Fill in the blanks here, don't make me do your work. I'm a very busy guy.

Asking them to articulate on their own is always good stuff.

[Ghazi]

just wanna say MARG BAR ISRAEL!

[spurraider21]

MARG BAR GHAZI

[RandomGuy]

If you find nothing wrong with that there is no point in discussing further.

I didn't say I found nothing wrong with it.

I asked you why I should care. Be specific.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I didn't say I found nothing wrong with it.

I asked you why I should care. Be specific.

I didn't say you should care, I specifically asked for your thoughts.

[RandomGuy]

I didn't say you should care, I specifically asked for your thoughts.

So you aren't going to actually spell it out.

My thoughts:

I think you have a partisan axe to grind, and are most likely making a mountain out of a moehill.

Your confirmation bias is causing you to miss important context and potentially important information to anyone who wants to reach a reasoned, evidence based conclusion that incorporates as much information as possible, to achieve a nuanced conclusion.

I say this without having read your full article, because I am unwilling, on the basis of my above analysis, to spend a lot of time on what is likely to be little more than another one of your bull talking points from some fowarded email.

Generally I find right-wingers to be lazy thinkers, and sadly lacking in critical thinking skills. For this reason, when I don't really have much interest in something, I will ask someone I know to be lazy, such as yourself, to expand on the bull they read, and use some critical thinking to synthesize and analyse it.

Because I know they won't.

Just like you failed to do.

It is a double win for me, because I don't have to spend time reading bull and doing someone else's thinking for them on something I'm not interested in, and get another instance to point to of right-wing lazy, flawed thinking.

This particular foible is shared, oddly enough, by conspiracy buffs who talk about 9-11, and faked moon landings. They can't be bothered to flesh out their bull either.

[RandomGuy]

Asking them to articulate on their own is always good stuff.

Quid pro quo.

"here spend your time reading this long article, but don't ask me to sum it up coherently".

sheesh.