Mass shooting in Orlando

[boutons_deux]

McCain says he ‘misspoke’ in blaming Obama for attacks on Americans

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/mcca...e+Raw+Story%29

could have been a McLiar test balloon to see if he could pick up some supporters from Trash's trash.

[TheSanityAnnex]

"The problem we have—and really, the firewall we have right now, is due process. It's all due process. So we can all say, 'yeah, we want the same thing,' but how do we get there. If a person is on a terrorist watch list like the gentleman—the shooter—in Orlando, he was, twice by the FBI, we were briefed yesterday about what happened. But that man was brought in twice. They did everything they could. The FBI did everything they were supposed to do. But there was no way for them to keep him on the nix list or keep him off the gun buy list. There was no way to do that. So can't we say that if a person is under su ion, there should be a five year period of time that we have to see if good behavior, if this person continues the same traits? Maybe we can come to that type of an agreement. But due process is what's killing us right now."
-Joe Manchin

[Splits]

The AR-15 is the most talked about gun in America.

But the AR-15's creator died before the weapon became a popular hit and his family has never spoken out.

Until now.

"Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47," the Stoner family told NBC News late Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."

The inventor's surviving children and adult grandchildren spoke exclusively to NBC News by phone and email, commenting for the first time on their family's uneasy legacy. They requested individual anonymity in order to speak freely about such a sensitive topic. They also stopped short of policy prescriptions or legal opinions.

But their comments add unprecedented context to their father's creation, shedding new light on his intentions and adding firepower to the effort to ban weapons like the AR-15. The comments could also bolster a groundbreaking new lawsuit, which argues that the weapon is a tool of war — never intended for civilians.

Eugene Stoner would have agreed, his family said.

The ex-Marine and "avid sportsman, hunter and skeet shooter" never used his invention for sport. He also never kept it around the house for personal defense. In fact, he never even owned one.

And though he made millions from the design, his family said it was all from military sales.

"After many conversations with him, we feel his intent was that he designed it as a military rifle," his family said, explaining that Stoner was "focused on making the most efficient and superior rifle possible for the military."

He designed the original AR-15 in the late 1950s, working on it in his own garage and later as the chief designer for ArmaLite, a then small company in southern California. He made it light and powerful and he fashioned a new bullet for it — a .223 caliber round capable of piercing a metal helmet at 500 yards.

The Army loved it and renamed it the M16.

But after Stoner's death in 1997, at the age of 74, a semi-automatic version of the AR-15 became a civilian bestseller, too, spawning dozens of copy-cat weapons. The National Rifle Association has taken to calling it "America's rifle."

The bullets that tore through the Pulse nightclub in Orlando were Stoner's .223 rounds, fired from a AR-15 spin off made by Sig Sauer.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Splits, good find. Prima facia it should be obvious but far too many people prefer Wayne Pierre to do their thinking for them. You can tell because they parrot him verbatim constantly.

[boutons_deux]

Orlando Club Had Armed Security

OPD statement, June 12: On June 12, 2016, just after 2 a.m., an Orlando Police Officer working extra duty at the Pulse Nightclub, located at 1912 S. Orange Ave., responded to shots fired. Our officer engaged in a gun battle with that suspect and the suspect went deeper into the club where more shots were fired. The incident then turned into a hostage situation.

Trump is free to argue that the situation might have turned out differently had more people inside the club been armed.

However, Trump’s statement that there were “no guns on the other side” is wrong.

There was at least one armed person on site, a veteran police officer working security, who shot at the suspected gunman.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/orl...rmed-security/

Maybe off-duty cops need to carry automatic weapons so they can join in the fun spraying the customers.

[z0sa]

Maybe off-duty cops need to carry automatic weapons so they can join in the fun spraying the customers.

That's low, even for you Boutons.

[pgardn]

He (Eugene Stoner) also never kept it around the house for personal defense.?

He clearly was not aware that zombies, after they have devoured your family members in various rooms around the house, can be effectively massacred through drywall and such in the home very effectively by just firing while turning in circles.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Splits, good find. Prima facia it should be obvious but far too many people prefer Wayne Pierre to do their thinking for them. You can tell because they parrot him verbatim constantly.

Good find?!?!?!
That the tiest journalism I've read in quite some time.

[TheSanityAnnex]

He (Eugene Stoner) also never kept it around the house for personal defense.?

He clearly was not aware that zombies, after they have devoured your family members in various rooms around the house, can be effectively massacred through drywall and such in the home very effectively by just firing while turning in circles.

.223 is not effective through drywall, that's why it's considered a decent home defense gun, penetration is much less than most popular hand gun rounds.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Orlando Club Had Armed Security

OPD statement, June 12: On June 12, 2016, just after 2 a.m., an Orlando Police Officer working extra duty at the Pulse Nightclub, located at 1912 S. Orange Ave., responded to shots fired. Our officer engaged in a gun battle with that suspect and the suspect went deeper into the club where more shots were fired. The incident then turned into a hostage situation.

Trump is free to argue that the situation might have turned out differently had more people inside the club been armed.

However, Trump’s statement that there were “no guns on the other side” is wrong.

There was at least one armed person on site, a veteran police officer working security, who shot at the suspected gunman.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/orl...rmed-security/

Maybe off-duty cops need to carry automatic weapons so they can join in the fun spraying the customers.

Splits do YOU charge in or stay out?

[spurraider21]

oldie but a goodie... short 3 part series








part 3 is exactly boutons from 1:10 - 1:45

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Good find?!?!?!
That the tiest journalism I've read in quite some time.

Direct quotes from primary sources with direct knowledge is not poor journalism, dimwit. But but but it wasn't designed for the military. . .

Cements you as the clueless dumb regarding the subject you mime expertise in though. Good job.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Direct quotes from primary sources with direct knowledge is not poor journalism, dimwit. But but but it wasn't designed for the military. . .

Cements you as the clueless dumb regarding the subject you mime expertise in though. Good job.

direct quotes from Eugene...I mean his kids...speaking for their father....rock solid journalism. Lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

direct quotes from Eugene...I mean his kids...speaking for their father....rock solid journalism. Lol

Given their father's dead, they are the best source available. We've had statements from Armalite and the late creator's family and in opposition we have your stupidity.

Maybe if you stamp your feet and wave your hands it will help.

[spurraider21]

how can you be a gay radical islamist and not understand islam at the same time?

the guy himself claimed he was islamist. why dont far-left libs show this same skepticism when somebody claims to be trans?

[boutons_deux]

All Christians are bad because some Christians are bad, like all Muslims are bad because some Muslims are bad

Westboro Baptist Church to protest at Orlando shooting victims' funerals

http://www.wfaa.com/news/nation-now/...rals/246540282

[pgardn]

.223 is not effective through drywall, that's why it's considered a decent home defense gun, penetration is much less than most popular hand gun rounds.

So it's just a caliber thing, has nothing to do with barrel length?
Im not a gun guy, but I know a bit of physics.

[CosmicCowboy]

.223 is not effective through drywall, that's why it's considered a decent home defense gun, penetration is much less than most popular hand gun rounds.

I totally disagree with this. I have shot steel flip targets with a .223 at 300 yards and it still has enough velocity and kinetic energy to punch right through 1/4" steel plate without flipping the target.

[CosmicCowboy]

So it's just a caliber thing, has nothing to do with barrel length?
Im not a gun guy, but I know a bit of physics.

It's a function of mass and velocity.

As far as barrel length, rule of thumb is the longer the barrel (out to about 20 inches) given the identical cartridge the higher the velocity because the powder has time for a more complete burn.

For example, a 9mm pistol has 383 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle, a .45 has 415 ft/#, and a 5.56(.223) has 1325 ft/lb at the muzzle because despite having a smaller mass than a .45 it is traveling much faster.

[pgardn]

It's a function of mass and velocity.

As far as barrel length, rule of thumb is the longer the barrel (out to about 20 inches) given the identical cartridge the higher the velocity because the powder has time for a more complete burn.

For example, a 9mm pistol has 383 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle, a .45 has 415 ft/#, and a 5.56(.223) has 1325 ft/lb at the muzzle because despite having a smaller mass than a >45 it is traveling much faster.

Absolutely what I was thinking. Except I'm using the ideas of impulse instead of energy. Kinetic energy is of course the best way to look at it when entering the target I would imagine. It's force X time which is impulse. So f and t both get bigger however, the force of the gas applied to the projectile must diminish as the barrel lengthens (unless the burn some how increases through time thus possibly amping up gas pressure)But you still increase the impulse (FXt) so the exit velocity should theoretically get bigger. But there comes a point of diminishing returns with barrel length. And then add in you are pushing a comparatively small mass when compared to a long distance hunting rifle for bigger game. So you get a large f on a small m and F/m = big ass acceleration (while in the barrel, after that you are done with gas pressure)

I do not know what an FXt graph would look like for this weapon with different length barrels but it would be very interesting. Your numbers up there are most likely averages and not force applied thru time which would be very difficult to keep constant. But it gives ballpark numbers.

Also air friction is going to most likely inhibit the smaller mass more but this is also highly shape dependent so again difficult.

Sorry for going on but this stuff fascinates me even though I don't own guns.

Oh, one correction. It's gotta be ft X lbs if you are talking energy, not ft/lb. / being divided by.

[pgardn]

I totally disagree with this. I have shot steel flip targets with a .223 at 300 yards and it still has enough velocity and kinetic energy to punch right through 1/4" steel plate without flipping the target.

And exactly what my friend stated. He said he would not be surprised if one projectile hit two people in that night club. He said he could see it tearing up walls therefore he did not get the home self defense part except with a tiny barrel.

Oh. This also explains why pure physics is just not good enough. You must talk to people who actually fire weapons and actually think about this stuff. There are just so many variables one must seek "data" from the experienced experimenters.

[CosmicCowboy]

Absolutely what I was thinking. Except I'm using the ideas of impulse instead of energy. Kinetic energy is of course the best way to look at it when entering the target I would imagine. It's force X time which is impulse. So f and t both get bigger however, the force of the gas applied to the projectile must diminish as the barrel lengthens (unless the burn some how increases through time thus possibly amping up gas pressure)But you still increase the impulse (FXt) so the exit velocity should theoretically get bigger. But there comes a point of diminishing returns with barrel length. And then add in you are pushing a comparatively small mass when compared to a long distance hunting rifle for bigger game. So you get a large f on a small m and F/m = big ass acceleration (while in the barrel, after that you are done with gas pressure)

I do not know what an FXt graph would look like for this weapon with different length barrels but it would be very interesting. Your numbers up there are most likely averages and not force applied thru time which would be very difficult to keep constant. But it gives ballpark numbers.

Also air friction is going to most likely inhibit the smaller mass more but this is also highly shape dependent so again difficult.

Sorry for going on but this stuff fascinates me even though I don't own guns.

Oh, one correction. It's gotta be ft X lbs if you are talking energy, not ft/lb. / being divided by.

I wasn't implying ft divided by pound, just using shorthand for foot pounds of energy

The actual formula is

E=1/2 M X V squared

v is the velocity of the bullet
m is the mass of the bullet.

[SpursforSix]

It's a function of mass and velocity.

As far as barrel length, rule of thumb is the longer the barrel (out to about 20 inches) given the identical cartridge the higher the velocity because the powder has time for a more complete burn.

For example, a 9mm pistol has 383 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle, a .45 has 415 ft/#, and a 5.56(.223) has 1325 ft/lb at the muzzle because despite having a smaller mass than a .45 it is traveling much faster.

I'm not sure your example is making your point about barrel length and power burn. I don't know the exact numbers but there is much more powder in a 223 cartridge than a 45. Unless your ultimate point was the barrel length allows you to use more powder.

[Sportcamper]

I have shot steel flip targets with a .223 at 300 yards and it still has enough velocity and kinetic energy to punch right through 1/4" steel plate without flipping the target.

I have always been a follower of Colonel Jeff Cooper who despised the .223 as a battle rifle…Then I saw those North Hollywood bank robbers hold off the LAPD with .223’s…Sort of changed my thinking…

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm not sure your example is making your point about barrel length and power burn. I don't know the exact numbers but there is much more powder in a 223 cartridge than a 45. Unless your ultimate point was the barrel length allows you to use more powder.

You missed the part about using the same cartridge with the barrel length being the only variable.

A 5.56 fired through a 10" barrel will have a lower velocity than the same 5.56 fired through a 20" barrel because of complete powder burn in the longer barrel.