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Aha!
Another useful factoid I did not know. So the air pressure stay high, especially if the burn gets larger as the bullet moves through the barrel (I'm guessing it does not)
Good stuff.
Yes.
Thats kinetic energy
Sorry. The / sign in physics is divided by... Different subjects do change symbols so that's what I thought you were writing.
You used it writing E=1/2 M X V squared One divided by 2... So I took ft/lbs to mean divided...
And F X t = change in Kinect energy (1/2 mv^2) So you go from v = 0 to v = something very big the m stays the same as long as pieces of the projectile don't come off in the barrel.
So there is the connection between our ways of looking at it.
Last edited by pgardn; 06-17-2016 at 10:10 AM.
Aha!
Another useful factoid I did not know. So the air pressure stay high, especially if the burn gets larger as the bullet moves through the barrel (I'm guessing it does not)
Good stuff.
No, I get that. Then it seemed like you were trying to provide an example with your 9/45/223 comparison. But since those are different calibers, it didn't really connect for me. Maybe I misunderstood.
Despite the popularity of the round, too few realize that 9mm ball ammo can easily punch through not just one but several interior walls. By contrast, .223 rifle ammunition tends to tumble, turn and slow down when penetrating barriers, even more than a 9mm fired from some pistols. Many shooters like to debate this point, and admittedly on the surface it doesn’t seem logical, but studies done by SWAT teams over a decade ago revealed this phenomenon to be fact and it was one of the main reasons a lot of tactical teams transitioned to M-4s/AR-15s and gave up the H&K MP-5 SMG in the 80s and 90s.
Thats ing hilarious but so true.
Our thoughts and prayers are with you, but we wont limit highly lethal weapons to the general public because we simply dont care.
Home Should Not Be a War Zone
By STANLEY McCHRYSTAL
JUNE 16, 2016
A BATTLEFIELD on our soil.
That was my reaction on Sunday, like that of so many of my fellow Americans and fellow soldiers, as I began to learn about the horror that unfolded early that morning in Orlando, Fla., when a dangerous man opened fire in a nightclub with a high-powered, military-style rifle.
As Americans came together to celebrate the freedom that our great country affords and that our soldiers have given their lives to defend, 49 of them were murdered with a gun. Scores more were injured.
But that was just part of the bloodshed in our communities this past weekend, when at least 121 people across the country were fatally shot. The tragedy in Orlando wasn’t even the only mass shooting; in Roswell, N.M., a man was charged on Sunday with shooting his wife and their four children to death on Saturday. The oldest was 14; the youngest was 3.
In 2014, 33,599 Americans died from a gunshot wound. From 2001 to 2010, 119,246 Americans were murdered with guns, 18 times all American combat deaths in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
That is a national crisis. And as a combat veteran and proud American, I believe we need a national response to the gun violence that threatens so many of our communities.
Those of us who served in the military were trained in the effective and safe use of firearms. We were taught about the responsibility that comes with carrying a gun. As combat infantrymen and special operators, we received thousands of hours of firearms training.
In combat operations in places like Afghanistan, we often confronted the specter of dangerous people with powerful weapons who were a threat to their community and to our soldiers. Our aim was to quickly determine who in that community was a legitimate actor who could be trusted with a firearm and who was not.
Today, some of our politicians and the people who back them seem to promote a culture of gun ownership that does not conform with what I learned in the military.
Here at home, many of us are alarmed by the carnage. We are alarmed by loopholes that let felons and domestic abusers get hold of guns without a background check. We are alarmed that a known or suspected terrorist can go to a federally licensed firearms dealer where background checks are conducted, pass that background check, legally purchase a firearm and walk out the door.
Now veterans are speaking out. Last Friday, two days before the tragedy in Orlando, a new initiative, the Veterans Coalition for Common Sense, led by the Navy combat veteran Capt. Mark Kelly and his wife, the former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, was announced. Those of us serving on its advisory committee come from every branch of our military and virtually every rank. We are trained in the use of firearms, and many of us have served in combat. And we all think our country must do more to save lives from being cut short by gun violence.
As this national crisis continues to rage, I ask my fellow veterans — patriots who have worn the uniform, who took an oath to protect our Cons ution and the Second Amendment, who served this great country — to add your voice to this growing call for change. America needs you.
In my life as a soldier and citizen, I have seen time and time again that inaction has dire consequences. In this case, one consequence of our leaders’ inaction is that felons, domestic abusers and suspected terrorists have easy access to firearms.
Some opponents of closing these gaps in our laws will continue to argue that dangerous people will obtain guns in our country no matter what, and therefore that taking steps to make it harder for them is fruitless. That is both poor logic and poor leadership.
Just as something as complex as a combat operation in a war zone meant that we could not eliminate every enemy combatant or prevent every American casualty, we cannot prevent every dangerous person from getting a gun, and we cannot prevent every gun tragedy. But wouldn’t preventing many of them be worth it? I believe it would.
We Americans are not a uniquely bloodthirsty people. We do not have more violent video games or movies than other countries. We do not have more dangerously mentally ill individuals than other countries. We are not unique in facing down the threat of global terrorism and active shooters.
But we have uniquely high rates of gun deaths and injuries that make us stand out in the worst of ways. Our communities should not feel like war zones. Our leaders can start by doing more to keep guns out of the hands of those who cannot be trusted to handle them responsibly. That must be our mission.
Gen. Stanley McChrystal is a former commander of U.S. and international forces in Afghanistan and of the Joint Special Operations Command, and a member of the Veterans Coalition for Common Sense.
Splits
i see no ideas or solutions from that article. What do you suggest? Specifically, what would have prevented Orlando?
Tons of good ideas out there, Boots had a great list a few months ago. But specifically to prevent mass shootings:
Outlaw all military-style weapons. Buyback all on the streets and make owning one a crime
Limit annual ammo purchases unless you're at a gun range where you can buy and use all you want but can't leave with them. Perhaps be able to rent military-style weapons at a range so gun nuts can have their "fun"
Require gun training similar to drivers Ed for anyone wanting a gun. Handgun, shotgun, hunting rifle all require different training courses much like motorcycle, car, 18-wheeler, etc. Paid for by the gun nut
National gun registry so feds know exactly who owns what weapons. Paid for by taxes on guns.
Background check is more than just filling out a questionairre and running criminal history. Must include psychiatric evaluation, repeated every 2 years. LE in-person interviews of family, friends, co-workers, neighbors. Paid for by the gun nut.
If a gun nut shoots up a place, whoever was involved in passing their background check is criminally liable.
Basically make it very expensive and bersome to be a gun nut.
Another good idea would be to fulfill the 2nd amendment militia requirement. In order to own a gun you must be active duty, national guard, reserve, etc. If you want to be a gun nut have some skin in the game.
Ok
So I personally watched his .223 go through a GD metal plate and at least a foot diameter tree.
Something is amiss. And he said the projectile does indeed tumble. So I can see why there is a debate.
I think this alone would be a great deterrent against some of your... uh... "less"crazy folks. People want to believe they are a part of something bigger. And generally speaking, they dont want to bring shame to their communities. Turn every gun owner into a reserve member of their state militia, using the militias themselves as a means to incorporate some of the suggestions mentioned, like passing a training course and submitting to a detailed background check. This would be par for the course for joining an armed forces branch anyway.
Well worth the watch. DHS whistleblower Phillip Haney
It's inconsistent because of the rifling, or lack thereof from a carbine, combined with the ease of changing the kinetics of a low mass object. It was designed to penetrate a metal helmet and it does that just fine. the fact that it tumbles in odd directions as opposed to rifling through past body armor is a desired effect when the stuff behind it is human flesh. It shreds people.
This conversation has done a good job demonstrating that TSA doesn't know wtf they're talking about.
The US Army changed from the 7.62 to 5.56 for two main reasons
1) lower felt recoil made it easier to train Vietnam draftees to shoot where they weren't afraid to pull the trigger
2) the 5.56 had equal accuracy to the 7.62 and with FMJ ammo was less lethal. The theory was that killing an enemy soldier took one guy off the battlefield and wounding an enemy took three guys off the battlefield...one that was hit and two to carry him.
That being said a .62 grain bullet traveling at 3200 fps is nothing to with. I damn sure don't want to be shot with one. I shoot a 22-250 a lot that throws the same size bullet at 3800 fps and the impact with a conventional expansive bullet is freaking devastating.
your friend was shooting full metal jacket. Would not be the same round your friend would use if it was loaded for self defense or in your hypothetical mass shooting incident.
The Overpenetration Question
Overpenetration has always been a concern when discussing the use of firearms in a dwelling, so the knee-jerk reaction has been to immediately eliminate a rifle as a suitable option. However, in the last several decades there have been exhaustive studies about what pistol and shotgun projectiles do when fired indoors, and those results are very interesting (and not in a good way).
Proponents of the pistol for home defense like to think that because it’s “just” a pistol round, overpenetration really won’t be an issue. Such is not the case. Drywall sheets and hollow-core doors (which are what you’ll find in the majority of homes and apartments in this country) offer almost no resistance to bullets. Unless brick or cinderblock was used somewhere in your construction, any pistol cartridge powerful enough to be thought of as suitable for self-defense is likely to fly completely through every wall in your abode. In fact, hollowpoint pistol bullets tend to plug up as they go through drywall, turning them—in effect—into round-nose bullets. Round buckshot pellets are just as bad, and shotgun slugs are worse.
These same concerns about overpenetration are what kept people away from considering the rifle for home defense. For years many people just assumed they knew what would happen to a rifle bullet fired indoors—it would go through every wall available and then exit the building. While armor-piercing and FMJ ammunition is specifically designed to do this, extensive testing has shown that light, extremely fast-moving .223 projectiles (including FMJs) often fragment when they hit a barrier as soft as thin plywood.
When talking about the effectiveness of rifle bullets on people, ballisticians and armchair commandos throw around a number of technical terms, such as “hydrostatic shock” and “temporary wound cavity.” The simple fact is that the more of its energy a bullet can dump into a target, the more effective it will be. Full metal jacketed ammunition has a tendency to zip right through, and while the resulting wound might cause the person to bleed to death, until they do there’s a good chance they’ll go on posing a threat. Projectiles designed either to stop in the body or cause a great deal of tissue upset work much better at immediately stopping the threat. That’s why police talk about the “stopping power” of a cartridge rather than its “killing power.”
When using rifle ammunition with projectiles designed specifically for personal defense, such as Winchester’s new .223 PDX1 loadings, fragmentation is assured. Bullets striking an intruder will separate into smaller, lighter pieces and—most likely—not overpenetrate and exit the body as errant shrapnel. All of the energy generated will then be transferred into the target. If the round fired is a miss and hits only wood or drywall, the projectile will break apart into smaller pieces—while these are still dangerous, their potential for injury, or penetration of additional walls, is much less than a pistol bullet or buckshot pellet. Many SWAT teams are using M4-type rifles, and overpenetration, when your teammate may be on the other side of the wall, is a major concern.
Read more: http://www.gunsandammo.com/ammo/long...#ixzz4C403iGii
Because of Westboro, ALL Christians are bad
'Angels' to block Westboro Baptist Church's protest at Orlando memorial
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/A...-s-8303872.php
Because of Boutons, all liberals are bat crazy.
makes as much sense.
While armor-piercing and FMJ ammunition is specifically designed to do this, extensive testing has shown that light, extremely fast-moving .223 projectiles (including FMJs) often fragment when they hit a barrier as soft as thin plywood.
When talking about the effectiveness of rifle bullets on people, ballisticians and armchair commandos throw around a number of technical terms, such as “hydrostatic shock” and “temporary wound cavity.” The simple fact is that the more of its energy a bullet can dump into a target, the more effective it will be. Full metal jacketed ammunition has a tendency to zip right through, and while the resulting wound might cause the person to bleed to death,
Yeah we talked about this. The word often is a problem. These rounds coming out so fast apparently do unpredictable things. The tumbling behavior is interesting even in a rifled barrel. I'm thinking the front of the bullet hitting a huge air pressure difference first compared to the back of the bullet might cause the torque thus tumbling on occasion.
And we have often discussed the distribution of Kinetic energy into very different type material from projectiles. Because he is a hunter and know some physics as well. Armor piercing rounds don't distribute ke well in human bodies. Unless you line up people, gut to back and observe where the bullet stops somewhere down the line of flesh, repeat.
Still seems like the wrong weapon for home defense. Seems like a great weapon for spray and kill that can be purchased. Punching off shots with a quick finger, magazines with many rounds available, ideal weapon for the bar. And reasonable easy to get in with.
Boots is the left's answer to Nixon at his worst moments.
Paranoia, out to get ya, hole up and fling .
As always, your takes suck donkey .
I agree with some of these ideas. There's definitely common ground.
But, IMO, the most important thing that can be done is for people in this country to take their damn eyes off their phone all day and report su ious people. This guy claimed he was connected to terrorist groups to his co-workers at one point... and a lot other pyscopaths (terrorist or not) that commit these atrocities usually leave a trail, but they're not dealt with due to negligence.
In in this particular case, the gun shop owners called authorities, but they didn't have any information on him. Why not follow his ass outside & get his tags?
People need to be educated on how to deal with this sort of .
We're focused on gun control, and that's fine it needs to be a focus IMO, but I wish politicians would also talk about that. But there's nothing political about it so they don't & won't.
I can get behind everything on the list besides this. It's dumb to hold somebody criminally liable when the charge is essentially "not having a crystal ball that sees the future." If the seller dutifully performs every background check/requirement/formality, the buyer passes everything 100%, then after the fact goes nuts and does something illegal... It's irresponsible to have the seller criminally liable.
Now if they find that the seller wasn't diligent or intentionally bypassed checks just to make a sale, different story.
This one is a good idea but the Supreme Court will have work to do, since scalia took a big wet on the first clause of the 2nd amendment in DC vs er where he essentially called the militia thing a suggestion but not a limitation
Fort Worth pastor calls Orlando shooting victims ‘the s of the earth’
A Fort Worth pastor is defending a church leader in Sacramento, Calif., who said he was upset that more people hadn’t died in the Orlando gay club shooting.
Donnie Romero of Stedfast Baptist Church in Fort Worth told his congregation that he agreed “100 percent” with the pastor in California.
“These 50 sodomites are all perverts and pedophiles, and they’re the s of the earth,” Romero said in an animated sermon posted to YouTube on Thursday.
“And the earth is a little bit better place now.”
Romero joined a controversy sparked in California after pastor Roger Jimenez of Verity Baptist Church praised the Orlando massacre, saying the tragedy was that there hadn’t been more victims.
http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2...he-earth.html/
I feel really bad for America. I have family there. You guys are shooting each other and the majority of you are just don't want to get rid of your number 1 issue.
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