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They seen all the best athletes ever and Kawhi is a beast.
Bill Simmons and that guy that bets on games.
They seen all the best athletes ever and Kawhi is a beast.
That deserved an announcement. Must have meant something to her.I have both of you on ignore ^^
This guy was ing garbage in summer league last year. Looks like a decent defender, but his offensive deficiencies make him damn near unplayable.
Again, I think we saw this post-season that there isn't just one way to win. They don't need to match up with anyone. They just need to play well at what they do. I have a lot of concerns about the roster I suggested. I think that if Tim and Manu come back, that's just the best the team can do both in terms of what they have now and what they'll need in 2017. They're path to winning a le in that case almost completely relies on the Big Three finding something for a last run. I think they'll be fine in the regular season, so they just need to play well in the playoffs. Andersen or someone like him makes a lot of sense, too, because he also has the upside of getting it done one last time. Maybe they go with Plumlee or Cole instead, but it's the same idea.Our biggest problems last year (IMO):
- pretty much no one capable of penetrating and breaking down the defense besides Parker and Manu, neither of which are particularly consistent at this point in their careers (and I'd only expect them to decline going into next season)
- lack of volume 3-point shooting...I'll admit this isn't as big of a deal if Green gets his shot back, but we don't know if he will.
- defense/rebounding on the 2nd unit
I'll concede that it sounds a bit dumb acting like keeping together a 67-win team isn't good enough, but like I said, I think they overperformed in the regular season. Maybe if Duncan/Manu/Parker weren't their age I'd be a bit more welcome to the idea, but with those guys likely facing a decline, essentially standing pat (from a rotation standpoint) would be disappointing IMO.
It wouldn't entirely surprise me if that ends up happening. And I wouldn't go all " PATFO" if it does. I just don't think that team has a realistic chance at all of winning a le. And if Duncan/Manu are coming back for another year, I'd hate to see it be for naught.
As far as your specific points, I agree with them. The only one that is solved in the rotation is Andersen instead of West. The best hope is that Diaw rededicates himself for a final run, but honestly, I'd much rather the team moved on. In the very least, I'd want to waive him now and re-sign him later if free agency doesn't work out.
Ball penetration is the biggest thing lacking on the Spurs. OKC has Durant and Westbrook and Cavs have Lebron and Kyrie. We have no chance vs GSW unless we get another ball penetration threat. At this point are lineup options don't even give us a punchers chance.
I don't think there's any way Manu is on the team and not the focal point of the bench. It's just not his game. However, the only answer to the bench issue if Manu comes back is Anderson stepping up into a significant offensive role (like averaging double figures). I'd rather the team redo the bench and not role with Mills as the "PG" and hoping Boris can contribute, but there aren't great alternatives. I don't see a significant offensive player available for trade. There are some like Monta Ellis, Lou Williams or an Eric Gordon S&T that are options. But there is also the issue of the bench needing a scoring big man while the team in general needs a scoring guard. If Manu is on the team, it makes it harder for Gordon to be there unless Anderson plays the four primarily or Eric plays PG.
Gordon, Simmons, Manu, Anderson, Boban actually make a bit of an awkward bench, but it has a lot of potential. Four ball-handlers, though three play significantly better with the ball in their hands. Boban wouldn't be ideal, as that unit screams PnR. Swapping out Simmons for another shooter and Boban for a diver would be much better. Maybe with Ibaka now in the fold, Dedmon will be available for a sign-and-trade or even a straight signing for the MLE.
Then you have Gordon, Manu, Bertans, Anderson, Dedmon, which to me would be really good and a unit into which Murray could easy rise after this upcoming season. I just worry a lot about the perimeter defense unless Gordon dedicates himself to that end.
Chinook top 10.
Well for the fans and the franchise the farewell tour will be a financial success and an emotional one and worth it just in itself but we won't be winning a championship. Just got to enjoy the season in that case. For play off success, if they plan to stay mostly the same, the chance they have is for some internal improvement and lightning in a bottle, but it's fools gold. In which case, if they are staying pat for one last run, they should shift responsibility and roles and "develop the young bench"
Maybe in reality we don't get back to the finals until one or more of these guys makes a development leap. We might add a significant FA in 2017, but that's just to replenish the old big 3s production, like LMA. We won't get back to real contention until these youngsters develop IMO. Might as well start doing it during the farewell tour.
When I read you post that stuck out to me. We need to bring that word back, it sounds so dignified, I think of someone saying it with a British accent.
i like that they are bringing to rookies to the team. However, he really disappointed at last year's summerleague. He looked stone handed.
Unfortunately, while I agree with you that the Spurs need to develop their youngsters, they don't have the luxury of being patient and bringing them along slowly. What is needed from the bench is consistent production and players that are ready to contribute. I believe Mills,Anderson and even Simmons will have better years this next year but outside of them, I really don't see any significant production from anybody else. All we can hope is that someone flashes greatness in summer league play and maybe they get a shot of being on the roster but I still thing LJC is far from being a siginifcant contributor. I think if Tim and Manu come back, they are definitely going to be given a lot less minutes but with no reliable backups, people need to step it up. I am not going to hope that Diaw is going to suddenly get back in shape and put down the wine glass but if he does, he could be a key to solidifying the bench.
I think all the money should be focused on just bringing in talent that isn't old. I would be fine with trading for a guy like Tyreke Evans or signing Eric Gordon or anything like that. If SA can just upgrade the bench Danny/LMA/KL make the SL already great.
I think the focus should be on getting as much actual young NBA talent as SA can get and unless you can get KD, spend it on guys who can be 6th man type players (even if they are starting caliber).
Especially if SA can land a guard who can play point and start, and TP moves to the bench, that would be big.
I keep hearing this "bad breaks and questionable officiating", but it ignores two things . . .
1) The Thunder controlled both games 2 and 5 (in this, the incorrect call was more like the final nail in the coffin; it was highly unlikely to have altered the outcome). The Spurs made late, after the result was more than likely decided pushes, to make them seem closer than they were and even with the correct calls, likely would have lost them either way.
2) Beyond that, there were no real egregious "bad breaks". Sure, Roberson played above his head, but he also did in the WCF and that's the playoffs; that's going to happen in pretty much every series, especially if you go far.
The team flat out wasn't good enough. All season they struggled mightily to score against the other 4 elite teams and it inevitably caught up to them as soon as they had to play 1 in the playoffs.
Luck is fine when you only need to beat 1 team that you're unlikely to, but not 3-4, with 3 being in the same Conference. Presuming Durant re-signs, the Spurs could beat probably beat 3 of the 4 in a damn near everything breaks right scenario, but they should no longer be favored against any.
I think acting like the Spurs didn't lead for the sizable majority of the fourth quarter in Game Five is silly. The "bad break" in that game gave OKC two points when the score was tied with less than a minute left in the game. There was no "Well OKC was the better team anyway" reasoning about how that match turned out. I'm much more okay with your interpretation of Game Two, because the Spurs never led in the fourth and had their own share of ignored calls down the stretch.
We know Ibaka isn't going to own the Spurs next year. And Waiters isn't likely to be there, either. That OKC has Oladipo and a rookie doesn't exactly mean they're better now. I'm not sure if they keep Ilyasova or not. I wouldn't be too scared of playing against him, as much as I actually do like him.2) Beyond that, there were no real egregious "bad breaks". Sure, Roberson played above his head, but he also did in the WCF and that's the playoffs; that's going to happen in pretty much every series, especially if you go far.
Who's the third team in the conference? The Clippers? Please. We have no idea how they're going to come back. They certainly haven't done enough to move up over the Spurs yet. I can see OKC being above the Spurs, but they're now in a position where they really can't avoid playing two centers together. Sure, that worked well enough in the WCSF, but now that they don't have Ibaka, they're going to be easy to match up with. And yes, Golden State should be above, though they too have to deal with changes. I'm not sure if them swapping out Barnes, Ezeli and Bogut for Horford makes them scarier in my book. There's a lot more off-season to get through.Luck is fine when you only need to beat 1 team that you're unlikely to, but not 3-4, with 3 being in the same Conference. Presuming Durant re-signs, the Spurs could beat probably beat 3 of the 4 in a damn near everything breaks right scenario, but they should no longer be favored against any.
As you know, and as you have complained to me about, I am not a fan of bringing Duncan and Manu back, since it means the team will be the same, but older. But if it happens, I don't think it's the end of the world. They just have to hope that with this obviously being the last run, they'll be able to leave it all on the court, like Duncan did against LAC in 2015 and in Game Six this season. It's still a of a puncher's chance, and it's possible the rest of the Western contenders are going to be caught flat-footed.
Fools gold. In most NBA games of magnitude, the team that sets the tone is usually the team that ends up winning, no matter the route they take to get there. It took all of about 2 minutes into game 5 for me to realize the Spurs were done in 6.
I think the could potentially be slightly better, without the downside of being worse. Either way, the majority of the problems they cause the Spurs remain.We know Ibaka isn't going to own the Spurs next year. And Waiters isn't likely to be there, either. That OKC has Oladipo and a rookie doesn't exactly mean they're better now. I'm not sure if they keep Ilyasova or not. I wouldn't be too scared of playing against him, as much as I actually do like him.
They're keeping Ilyasova. He's probably their starting power forward, since Durant (if he stays, of course) won't want to play it full time, Kanter only can in select match-ups and there's no other candidate.
The Clippers are likely to be back with a vengeance. They feel like they gave away the '14 WCSF to the Thunder and the '15 WCSF to the Rockets, then had injuries derail them in '16. They also know Paul's prime is running on fumes, so they're running out of chances. Combine that motivation with two superior play makers to any on the Spurs and I'd give them the slight edge.Who's the third team in the conference? The Clippers? Please. We have no idea how they're going to come back. They certainly haven't done enough to move up over the Spurs yet. I can see OKC being above the Spurs, but they're now in a position where they really can't avoid playing two centers together. Sure, that worked well enough in the WCSF, but now that they don't have Ibaka, they're going to be easy to match up with. And yes, Golden State should be above, though they too have to deal with changes. I'm not sure if them swapping out Barnes, Ezeli and Bogut for Horford makes them scarier in my book. There's a lot more off-season to get through.
As you know, and as you have complained to me about, I am not a fan of bringing Duncan and Manu back, since it means the team will be the same, but older. But if it happens, I don't think it's the end of the world. They just have to hope that with this obviously being the last run, they'll be able to leave it all on the court, like Duncan did against LAC in 2015 and in Game Six this season. It's still a of a puncher's chance, and it's possible the rest of the Western contenders are going to be caught flat-footed.
Like I said, they could beat either; I just no longer see a reason to think they'd be the favorite in either case. They no longer have another gear.
I never complained about the sentiment of wanting Duncan and Ginobili to retire.
And I'm sure that divining rod of yours finds a whole bunch of water for you and the family. Plenty of people probably thought the same thing after the fourth games of the WCF and the Finals.
Who's going to start at PF for them? There is not currently an answer to that question that doesn't give the Spurs an obvious strategy to attack OKC.I think the could potentially be slightly better, without the downside of being worse. Either way, the majority of the problems they cause the Spurs remain.
So now we're assuming Iyasova for Ibaka doesn't potentially make them worse? If Adams is guarding LMA, who's going to protect the rim?They're keeping Ilyasova. He's probably their starting power forward, since Durant (if he stays, of course) won't want to play it full time, Kanter only can in select match-ups and there's no other candidate.
There is really no reason to believe this. They are older and losing much of their roster either to age or just inefficiency. I certainly am not giving them the nod over SA if they don't get HCA. I honestly think this is the year Doc gets fired, not that they become bona-fide contenders.The Clippers are likely to be back with a vengeance.
I didn't. I thought the WCF was 50/50 at that point and knew it would come down to game 6. I did think the Finals were over, but it took a miracle to pull that off: Two injuries to the Warriors' top six, a one game suspension to their second best player and probably the second best player ever turning back the clock and playing at his peak.
It was also one series, not three (against elite) to win the championship.
Probably Ilyasova, with Adams obviously defending Aldridge. But they're not stupid: Whether Duncan returns or Gasol is signed to replace him, they'd clearly play plenty of two center lineups again.Who's going to start at PF for them? There is not currently an answer to that question that doesn't give the Spurs an obvious strategy to attack OKC.
Already somewhat answered this, but I'll add: Who's going to get to the rim for the Spurs?So now we're assuming Iyasova for Ibaka doesn't potentially make them worse? If Adams is guarding LMA, who's going to protect the rim?
It's often how the NBA works, with elite, veteran teams. In recent years, we saw it with the '14 Spurs and '16 Thunder.There is really no reason to believe this. They are older and losing much of their roster either to age or just inefficiency. I certainly am not giving them the nod over SA if they don't get HCA. I honestly think this is the year Doc gets fired, not that they become bona-fide contenders.
Home court doesn't matter if you don't have another gear. This is why the Spurs have lost four playoff home games to these two teams the last two years.
Huh, they won't play in summer league?
Sorry to interrupt y'all's argument, but I just had to jump in and call total bull on this.It took all of about 2 minutes into game 5 for me to realize the Spurs were done in 6.
Carry on ...
SL = Starting Lineup
Lebron is easily the best player in the league still. He didn't turn back the clock. He just stepped up. We've seen him do that for years now. Duncan against LAC was turning back the clock. No one should ever think Lebron isn't going to dominate when he has to. The rest is just subjective, and there's no way to get into that productively.
If they swap out Pau with Duncan, the Thunder will start off big ... and it simply won't matter. Kanter isn't a good defender. The Spurs would eat them alive on that end. And they'd have no size off the bench at that point. I'm certainly not considering Collison, Ily and Sabonis a dominating bench rotation. I'd expect the Spurs to destroy them with the second units.Probably Ilyasova, with Adams obviously defending Aldridge. But they're not stupid: Whether Duncan returns or Gasol is signed to replace him, they'd clearly play plenty of two center lineups again.
Probably their best player now that the Thunder would no longer be starting their best defensive wing.Who's going to get to the rim for the Spurs?
The Clippers aren't elite. And no, they really just don't have a bench anymore. Not even Crawford or Aldrich. They might have Jeff Green still, but that's hardly intimidating. If you think LAC will somehow pull it together, that's fine. But they definitely shouldn't be favored against the Spurs right now. They have so many more questions including injuries to their second-best player (not worried about Paul since his injury isn't really something that will carry over).It's often how the NBA works, with elite, veteran teams. In recent years, we saw it with the '14 Spurs and '16 Thunder.
2015 was definitely an example of the team having another gear. They just didn't have the cohesion they needed. I can agree about this year, though. LAC doesn't have another either, especially if they lose their bench.Home court doesn't matter if you don't have another gear. This is why the Spurs have lost four playoff home games to these two teams the last two years.
Estimated Roster and actual salaries for 2017
Next years FA class is definitely better maybe that is the best player
Tony Parker 15,453,126 Danny Green 10,000,000 Kawhi Leonard 18,868,625 LaMarcus Aldridge 21,461,010 Boban Marjanovic 5,000,000 Kyle Anderson 2,151,704 Jonathan Simmons 1,214,746 Dejounte Murray 1,027,700 Boris Diaw 7,500,000 Nikola Multinov 1,036,300 Livio Jean-Charles ? Davis Bertans ? $83,713,211
Spurs could have around $86 million committed to 12 players after next season, if they were to cut Diaw loose by then then that could give them about $79 million. or about $31 million in cap space if the cap hits $110 million (good chance it is actually higher than). They could use that on a big fish such as KD (if he takes a 1+1 with OKC) or use it to go after one like Serge Ibaka or two players like Amir Johnson and George Hill
Last edited by cd021; 06-26-2016 at 11:43 AM.
Not sure why you're trying to figure out numbers for Summer of 17, when so many variables can change between now & then. ( TD retires, TP or Green traded, Diaw being waived & stretched, Anderson or Simmons being traded, ect
Sure but I was attempting to show Harlem Heat why waiting to '17 FA makes sense for the Spurs, they could have north of $30 million in cap space and the majority of the roster set (11 players under contract, 12 including Diaw). I cant predict what will happen but as is that is what the Spurs books could look like.
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