Official 2016 Summer League Thread

[TrainOfThought5]

We need him to be healthy, and we have to hope that he will be as good as we're expecting. So far, the rest of our stash players aren't looking too good. Sort of like putting some Boone's Farm in your wine cellar to age.

AM I THE ONLY PERSON THAT FOUND THIS HILARIOUS?!

[ElNono]

He literally only had to show he could shoot the three, which even you think he did. He didn't have to show he could play off the ball, because he's likely not going to play off the ball as much as he did last year. As a four, he'll probably be handling the ball quite a bit, and when he's not, he'll just be spotting up. If there's anything to take away, it's that he looks like he can shoot a lot better now, so that works out.

I did? Pretty sure I said he had a good shooting night after the first game in Utah, nothing more nothing less. I'd love him to be a guy that can just sit in a corner and knock them down, but that's not the Kyle I've seen this SL. I've seen a guy that just likes to have the rock a lot, which is no different from what I've seen last SL. If he can shoot better without needed to hoard the ball, sure, I'll definitely take it. But I also wanted to see him cutting, and playing off the ball, but I didn't. So I can't tell you he didn't improve on that, but I can't tell you he did either. I wish I could.

You can't simultaneously say that Manu needs help while also assuming he's going to dominate the ball again. Those two things just don't go together. It's entirely possible that they let Anderson and/or Simmons be prominent ball-handlers while Manu focuses on spotting up and secondary creation. He's too old and will possibly be too tired to try to build a bench around him again.

Why not? I don't know what Pop has planned for the bench, but I'm actually pretty sure Manu will be the de-facto backup PG (even if Patty plays the cameo here or there). That's because that's where he's more effective, at this point in time. So if I had to guess, I would say we'll see a lot of pick and roll action. Or if they want to go flex or summertime, and the ball moving, maybe some of that. Manu isn't that ball dominant anyways, he's more of an execution guy: we're running this play, you stay here, you go there, and we run this. For that to work you need guys that play off the ball. Set picks, know when to rotate, and do all that without necessarily getting a touch on the ball. Even if they end up taking the last shot. That's what I didn't see either from Kyle or Simms, but maybe they'll have it when the season comes around.

All that said, I think Pop will probably give Kyle some posting up opportunities, at least at the beginning, but I don't think he can really make that his niche at the NBA level. I think where he could make an impact is as a passing big off the block. But it's unfair to compare to Boris, Boris is an amazing passer.

[DPG21920]

I disagree that the Spurs need a sixth man. That will be nominally Manu's role with Anderson actually getting that level of minutes. He did a good job of showing what he'd look like in that role. Having him come in for Green with Manu coming in for Gasol and Simmons/Bertans coming in for Kawhi makes the most sense. I wouldn't be against upgrading Mills. But I really don't want to see them burn assets to do it if that player is going to struggle playing with Manu.

That is a lot on Manu - you think he's capable of sustaining a top bench for an entire season still? I mean, Pop can stagger DG/Kawhi to help with some bench flaws, but Mills/Manu/Simmons/Kyle/Dedmon has a lot of question marks. It's definitely has potential but it will rely on Mills/Manu/Simmons/Kyle really being able to hit shots at a reasonable rate.

I think Mills should be the odd man out, with Manu off the ball and someone that can truly break people down off the dribble and score would help.

Even someone that is not a good fit IMO. Spurs need guard talent in a major way.

Even someone like a Tyreke Evans who is not a good fit I would think would be huge. I see what you are saying and I agree that I would not want SA to give up assets unless it was a young proven player; but that just means it's even less likely.

I guess I just don't think SA should pass up on a good opportunity unless Anderson gets off to a roaring start.

[rastaspur]

Dejounte was my guy. wondering if this kid is going to have delusions of grandeur prancing in his head everytime he hits the court. He says the right things off the court and seems to be likeable. But his game on the court is telling a different story.

Brogdon and patrick mccaw seem like safer bets in this brief time since the draft.

[SAGirl]

I like to think I'm realistic and honest with how I feel about him, despite what anybody else thinks. I just don't see a 'jewel' there, so I have to adjust my expectations accordingly. I want him to do well, but, I just don't like what I've seen from him. I'm far from declaring him a "bust" or anything like that. But the clock is ticking for him more than any other rook, and if he's going to show what niche he can excel at to hold on to this team (and league), it's gonna have to be soon.

He will show up this season and be aware, 23 years old is far from a guy's prime.. but he will be much better offensively which we will need bc from my understanding the other bench big is not much of an offensive weapon. But honestly I feel obnoxious right now, everyone is en led to their opinion, so cheers.

[LakerHater]

[ElNono]

The bench is going to be a damn roller coaster this season.

The main bench crew: Mills/Manu/Simmons/Kyle/Dedmon - hope the can get it done; need a major bounce back year from Patty and have to hope Simmons/Kyle really step up.

Can't expect anything from LJC realistically nor Murray. Bertans is the wild card that "could" contribute. Spurs need a trade for a legit 6th man (guard) badly. Not sure they will want to pull that trigger this year even if they could.

Until I see Bertrans and some of Dedmon, I can't even tell you what they're going to run. If Dedmon turns out to be a good P&R big, maybe there's something there. Or maybe if Kyle did improve his shooting, some pick and pop there.

Unfortunately, I don't see a dominant mismatch in the post right now (like we had with Boris when Boris was interested) that opened up the perimeter shot for Patty. I suppose Pop is going to try Simmons as the bull in the china shop for penetration, but you wouldn't be the only one being leery about it.

Realistically, you don't need a lot against 90% of the league, tbh... but I agree with you that against the better teams you do need at least a passable unit.

[ElNono]

If we could trade Patty for an actual penetrator kind of guy (what Murray promises to be in 3 years), I would definitely do it. I think that's our biggest flaw right now. Not just on the bench either, but the starters are too talented and can probably cover that deficit.

[apalisoc_9]

Dude was the Delly of the NCAA.

Didnt evem think of that comparison tbh.

[ElNono]

Even someone like a Tyreke Evans who is not a good fit I would think would be huge.

I call him Cancereke Evans, but completely agree with you on this one.

[ElNono]

Dejounte was my guy. wondering if this kid is going to have delusions of grandeur prancing in his head everytime he hits the court. He says the right things off the court and seems to be likeable. But his game on the court is telling a different story.

Brogdon and patrick mccaw seem like safer bets in this brief time since the draft.

He's just young

[DPG21920]

Ya - I'm not pretending I know what style the bench will play. I'm just looking at it from a talent perspective at the moment.

Mills - shot has fallen off. not a good creator. gives effort on defense but not great

Manu - older and 3PT shot escapes him. can't quite get to the rim like he used to. Great instincts on defense but not elite any more there (obviously).

Simmons - questions on defense. Very good athlete who has shown ability to drive. Good passer but handles and to's limit him. Solid enough 3PT shot last year, but that the norm?

Kyle - questionable 3PT shot.

See the theme? Spurs need these guys to shoot the 3 ball. I've been very positive about the off season overall; nothing has changed for me. But that doesn't mean that the bench is not a big question mark. That was always going to be the case going with younger and less experienced players though. It's a necessary evil right now and the right move.

[SAGirl]

Nice words on KA from Becky....

“To me, he was the best player in summer league,” Spurs summer coach Becky Hammon said. “When you talk about the most all-around player, he was the best. That’s saying a lot. His leadership, his communicating — he was great for us. There’s really nowhere left for him to go here.”


Make or Break season for SloMo now that he has officially outgrown the SL & DL.

Yup. Here's a cheer to hope for a good season.

Bodes well for the Spurs: Kyle at 17, his coach said: "as an all around basketball player, who is focusing on team, there is no better player in the country."

scroll to min 1:34 or so.
In terms of development, Kyle is right where he should be if Becky is practically saying the same thing of him in a tournament with kids around his age/generation. What's left for him is to do that in the NBA and he wasn't quite there bc he needed to work in getting stronger, shooting better, and being more aggressive.

[apalisoc_9]

Seriously, Just get raymond Felton.

That fatass has a couple of good playoff games ready to be used next year.

[GSH]

That is a lot on Manu - you think he's capable of sustaining a top bench for an entire season still?

He's averaged 58 games for the last five years or so. Last year he played exactly 58 games. It's a pretty good bet that he will be available for about that many this year. That leaves 24 games that they better have some way of covering. I'm not knocking him, it's just numbers and minutes, and the mileage on his body.

Pop tightens his rotations in the playoffs, but those bench guys should be able to save a lot of wear and tear on the starters through the regular season. And you always need to have a couple of guys who can step up to the second unit, in case of injuries. I'm not seeing it in SL so far. And I don't think it's fair or realistic to expect 75 games out of Manu. Right now I'm looking back fondly on Kevin Martin, Andre Miller, Ray McCallum, and Rasual Butler. And obviously it would be nice to have someone better than those guys. 24 games is a lot to be without your bench leader.

[apalisoc_9]

Yup. Here's a cheer to hope for a good season.

Bodes well for the Spurs: Kyle at 17, his coach said: "as an all around basketball player, who is focusing on team, there is no better player in the country."

scroll to min 1:34 or so.
In terms of development, Kyle is right where he should be if Becky is practically saying the same thing of him in a tournament with kids around his age/generation. What's left for him is to do that in the NBA and he wasn't quite there bc he needed to work in getting stronger, shooting better, and being more aggressive.

No one cares

[SAGirl]

He literally only had to show he could shoot the three, which even you think he did. He didn't have to show he could play off the ball, because he's likely not going to play off the ball as much as he did last year. As a four, he'll probably be handling the ball quite a bit, and when he's not, he'll just be spotting up. If there's anything to take away, it's that he looks like he can shoot a lot better now, so that works out.

You can't simultaneously say that Manu needs help while also assuming he's going to dominate the ball again. Those two things just don't go together. It's entirely possible that they let Anderson and/or Simmons be prominent ball-handlers while Manu focuses on spotting up and secondary creation. He's too old and will possibly be too tired to try to build a bench around him again.

This is exactly what I see, even with Simmons TBH. I think Manu will be more the roleplayer in this scenario and defer. He's there to help, provide a stabilizing vet presence, etc... It's not like he will be irrelevant, but certainly there will be more placed on someone else's shoulder. Manu was spotting up off the ball last season IMO already, and when Kawhi played with the bench, it was Kawhi's time. Anderson and Simmons coming of age is actually helping Kawhi's team to have a bench and not have to do everything himself in reality.

[raybies]

DPG21920 You are right on the money about the bench. I thought the same. I think initially you have Manu, Simmons, and Kyle all give a hand at facilitating and mostly between Kyle and Jon. Manu is the last resort cause you ideally want to keep him fresh and don't want to risk injury. I think if Kyle breaks out then you build around him and Manu with shooters like Bertans, especially if Jon isn't hitting his threes and is turning the ball over. So many variables here.

My bench 5 I would like to see is; Patty,Manu,Bertans,Anderson, and Dedmon. I think it gives the Spurs the most options and would be better balanced with specialties and roles.

[rastaspur]

He has a laundry list of things he has to improve upon.

(1) marlon wayans should really make a conscious effort to quit dribbling so high.
(2) quit playing basically standing up. Doesnt mix well with that high dribbling. Gonna get pickpocketed like a drunk tourist in rome or amsterdam
(3) foot work on defense is ridiculously bad. He needs a fundamental bootcamp. Drill that into his head. Haze him if you must. Stands up alot on defense too. Id that sheere laziness, wanting to look cool or what but thats gotta be corrected. Defensive stance, the concept of peoper rotations when a defense is compromised. Learn assignments. Its basic sense.

(3) all flash and no substance/net positive impact.

(4) shooting mechanics and form and squaring up to the target. No one shot seems consistent. Hes the kind of player who makes a shot more difficult by wanting to putvsome swag on it. Theres more beauty in looking like a hornaceck or stockton and looking boring while knocking down shot after shot. Break him down completely and rebuild the shot from scratch. Its fifty shades of fail. Chip needs to be his shadow. Could take 2 years to fix it and make it a ninliability. Its real bad.

So many other things but im running out of steam and tired up typing

[raybies]

He has a laundry list of things he has to improve upon.

(1) marlon wayans should really make a conscious effort to quit dribbling so high.
(2) quit playing basically standing up. Doesnt mix well with that high dribbling. Gonna get pickpocketed like a drunk tourist in rome or amsterdam
(3) foot work on defense is ridiculously bad. He needs a fundamental bootcamp. Drill that into his head. Haze him if you must. Stands up alot on defense too. Id that sheere laziness, wanting to look cool or what but thats gotta be corrected. Defensive stance, the concept of peoper rotations when a defense is compromised. Learn assignments. Its basic sense.

(3) all flash and no substance/net positive impact.

(4) shooting mechanics and form and squaring up to the target. No one shot seems consistent. Hes the kind of player who makes a shot more difficult by wanting to putvsome swag on it. Theres more beauty in looking like a hornaceck or stockton and looking boring while knocking down shot after shot. Break him down completely and rebuild the shot from scratch. Its fifty shades of fail. Chip needs to be his shadow. Could take 2 years to fix it and make it a ninliability. Its real bad.

So many other things but im running out of steam and tired up typing

Hey Murray, be yourself and play your game, but in the process of changing everything.

[ElNono]

I'm more concerned with what we can build around that talent in the bench, than with the talent itself. That's because there's no standout talent. Back in '13 and '14, we had a killer bench with Patty, Manu, Belli, Boris... and all of them looked good, but it was really the synergy between the players and their mutual understanding that really brought it all together. Beli was new, Boris just got there, Patty too. It was an actual unit that produced more than just the single talents combined.

We haven't had that the last couple of seasons, for whatever reason. But that's something this team is going to have to work on. And for that to work, every player needs to feel comfortable and important, even if they're not playing exactly how they like to play.

[DPG21920]

With Murray doing the expected in SL so far & not seeing Bertans and never being high on LJC since his injury it just dampens the bench potential for me.

I mean, I knew where SA stood going into SL but was hoping (beyond reason) for something special to happen. I'm at the point where I would not be shocked if SA had a great bench or if the bench really struggled. Point was it's something to watch - I guess saying they need a trade for a legit 6th man was premature; I would like that for the perfect player no matter what, but there is definitely merit to waiting and seeing what you have because there is enough potential at the moment.

[Kawhitstorm]

Seriously, Just get raymond Felton.

That fatass has a couple of good playoff games ready to be used next year.

Not sure why the Mavs didn't re-sign him for the MLE or something, Deron is good to miss about 25 games next season.

Actually, he played well under D'Antoni in New York (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2011.html) so I won't be surprised if they pick him up as Ty Lawson's replacement.

[ElNono]

With Murray doing the expected in SL so far & not seeing Bertans and never being high on LJC since his injury it just dampens the bench potential for me.

I mean, I knew where SA stood going into SL but was hoping (beyond reason) for something special to happen. I'm at the point where I would not be shocked if SA had a great bench or if the bench really struggled. Point was it's something to watch - I guess saying they need a trade for a legit 6th man was premature; I would like that for the perfect player no matter what, but there is definitely merit to waiting and seeing what you have because there is enough potential at the moment.

The Spurs are aware too, tbh, that's why they traded for KMart mid-season. I expect somewhat the same this season. They're going to take a look, see if something comes together, or they're just going to start looking elsewhere mid-season and see what they can get.

[DPG21920]

I'm more concerned with what we can build around that talent in the bench, than with the talent itself. That's because there's no standout talent. Back in '13 and '14, we had a killer bench with Patty, Manu, Belli, Boris... and all of them looked good, but it was really the synergy between the players and their mutual understanding that really brought it all together. Beli was new, Boris just got there, Patty too. It was an actual unit that produced more than just the single talents combined.

We haven't had that the last couple of seasons, for whatever reason. But that's something this team is going to have to work on. And for that to work, every player needs to feel comfortable and important, even if they're not playing exactly how they like to play.

This is a good point and where I actually think Kyle/Simmons can develop chemistry. Unfortunately with Manu's inevitable decline (he was still good though) the bench doesn't have enough "talent" it seems. That's why I was saying the Tyreke thing (as an example). Spurs need talent. Having a bench mob by committee is really tough without having a lot of talent.

While Manu is still good, he's older. Mills is off. Simmons/Kyle are worth the investment but are they that "talented"? But this unit has potential, but the flip-side of potential is downside. Again, it's not a bad thing, just something to watch.