Official 2016 Summer League Thread

[Chinook]

I did? Pretty sure I said he had a good shooting night after the first game in Utah, nothing more nothing less.

Well, it should have been more. Dude shot 42 percent from three this summer, including three nights of 50 percent or better and averaging almost four attempts a game. I don't know how much more he would have to shoot to meet your standards.

I'd love him to be a guy that can just sit in a corner and knock them down

I know you would. But that's just a horrible idea. No one does that anymore. And Anderson is arguably the best player in the second unit now. He's not going to sit there all day. He needs to go from being a liability spotting up to a threat, and he looks to be well on his way.

I've seen a guy that just likes to have the rock a lot, which is no different from what I've seen last SL

That's never going to change. And it shouldn't. First, because the best player in summer league ALWAYS dominates the ball. And second, because he's going to have to have the ball in his hands for the bench to work ... much more so than Manu will need to. Manu might be the heart and engine of the bench, but Anderson, especially at the four, is the fulcrum.

If he can shoot better without needed to hoard the ball, sure, I'll definitely take it. But I also wanted to see him cutting, and playing off the ball, but I didn't.

Anderson's not a cutter. It's just not his game. He's gangling and slow-footed. It's very hard to sneak into the paint. He's also a pop-man rather than a roll-man, so even him playing off the ball isn't going to result in cuts.

Why not? I don't know what Pop has planned for the bench, but I'm actually pretty sure Manu will be the de-facto backup PG (even if Patty plays the cameo here or there).

I think that's going to be the case a lot less than before. Manu's not going to run the show with two other ball-handlers next to him. It just doesn't make a ton of sense, especially not as the overwhelmingly prominent option.

That's because that's where he's more effective, at this point in time.

It's not about what's best for him anymore. It's about what's best for the bench, and that doesn't always align with Manu like it used to. The Spurs have other players who need to be given room to run next to him, which wasn't the case even two years ago. You don't hold them back to keep trying to get blood from a pile of rubble that used to be a stone.

I would say we'll see a lot of pick and roll action.

I agree. It just isn't going to always be the 2/5 PnR. In fact, I think it will be a ton of 4/5 PnR and 3/4 PnP along with even some 2/4 PnP.

Manu isn't that ball dominant anyways

I mean, if you're not going to be realistic about this, I don't know what to tell you. His USG% is much higher than that of guys like Rondo and CP3, and it's right in line with Parker's. He absolutely dominates the ball, and that's why guys like Hill and Joseph play better without him. Obviously, when Manu was better, it made sense. But that's less the case now.

For that to work you need guys that play off the ball. Set picks, know when to rotate, and do all that without necessarily getting a touch on the ball. Even if they end up taking the last shot. That's what I didn't see either from Kyle or Simms, but maybe they'll have it when the season comes around.

That's going to have to be Manu this year as much as it will the other guys. He's far from the only guy who can run an offense, and if he needs a whole bunch of off-ball guys to do it, he's not necessarily the best, either.

All that said, I think Pop will probably give Kyle some posting up opportunities, at least at the beginning, but I don't think he can really make that his niche at the NBA level.

Anderson is a high-post player, and that's where he got his touches in the SL. As of right now, he's really the only guy to plays in that position for the Spurs, but it's where guys like Lebron and Gay like to make their money. Especially as a PF, I expect Pop to keep him out there when he can make things happen off the dribble rather than trying to put him on the block against bigger guys.

[ElNono]

This is a good point and where I actually think Kyle/Simmons can develop chemistry. Unfortunately with Manu's inevitable decline (he was still good though) the bench doesn't have enough "talent" it seems. That's why I was saying the Tyreke thing (as an example). Spurs need talent. Having a bench mob by committee is really tough without having a lot of talent.

While Manu is still good, he's older. Mills is off. Simmons/Kyle are worth the investment but are they that "talented"? But this unit has potential, but the flip-side of potential is downside. Again, it's not a bad thing, just something to watch.

What I don't see in this group at the moment is versatility, and that's why I agreed with your mention about a penetrator (I wouldn't call it a 6th man, but a guy that's more established than Simmons doing that).

That older bench I mentioned had a Boris that could post up and be a treat enough that opened up shots for Patty and Manu. Beli thrived with cuts, playing off the ball and sometimes hitting from outside. Tiago could play pick and roll and also cut under the basket. It evolved into a tough group to guard (even though we really didn't have a penetrator either). They were more than just the sum of their talents, and they were smart players that knew what they were running.

And that's really what I want to see from Simms and Kyle. More execution type of stuff. Not one on one (which I think it's a disadvantage for both right now), but being able to run stuff that play to their strengths. I felt like the last couple of seasons we didn't know what we were running half the time, the other half, it was broken plays. It just didn't come together. Hoping for better this season.

[sasaint]

Excellent, dispassionate analysis, Chinook.

[Chinook]

This is a good point and where I actually think Kyle/Simmons can develop chemistry. Unfortunately with Manu's inevitable decline (he was still good though) the bench doesn't have enough "talent" it seems. That's why I was saying the Tyreke thing (as an example). Spurs need talent. Having a bench mob by committee is really tough without having a lot of talent.

While Manu is still good, he's older. Mills is off. Simmons/Kyle are worth the investment but are they that "talented"? But this unit has potential, but the flip-side of potential is downside. Again, it's not a bad thing, just something to watch.

If you ask me the best bench the Spurs have had in recent memory was Neal/Manu/Jack/Bonner/Splitter. I don't think any of those guys have great chemistry except Manu and Tiago. That was definitely a one-in-four-out offense, and it really seems to be the case here. Chemistry is important, but that's going to have to be developed anyway. Right now, Anderson and Simmons have it, and Manu and Mills have it. With another year under their belts, I think those four will have it soon. Now, they just have to get Dedmon in on the fun, and a roll-man, oop-catcher should fit in well with Manu's feeds and Anderson's lobs. Ideally, having an elite-shooting forward like Bertans in for Simmons. Then you could roll out Orlando's Van Gundy offense with Dedmon as Dwight, Anderson as Hedo, Bertans as Lewis, Manu as Nelson and Mills as Lee.

[DPG21920]

If you ask me the best bench the Spurs have had in recent memory was Neal/Manu/Jack/Bonner/Splitter. I don't think any of those guys have great chemistry except Manu and Tiago. That was definitely a one-in-four-out offense, and it really seems to be the case here. Chemistry is important, but that's going to have to be developed anyway. Right now, Anderson and Simmons have it, and Manu and Mills have it. With another year under their belts, I think those four will have it soon. Now, they just have to get Dedmon in on the fun, and a roll-man, oop-catcher should fit in well with Manu's feeds and Anderson's lobs. Ideally, having an elite-shooting forward like Bertans in for Simmons. Then you could roll out Orlando's Van Gundy offense with Dedmon as Dwight, Anderson as Hedo, Bertans as Lewis, Manu as Nelson and Mills as Lee.

See, I agree in theory with this the problem is Manu is not the Manu of your best bench, no player is as impactful at Tiago (IMO, but maybe Kyle turns into that or Dedmon) and while playing the SVG lineup makes sense w/ the players skill sets, everyone is a far worse version talent wise of the guys you mentioned (obviously since that was a starting unit that was really good).

I just don't see top talent (which is what I meant by 6th man) and doing things in a committee approach can prove to be difficult.

I like having one for sure talented stud on the bench and SA doesn't have that - but it's more cir stance and doesn't mean the bench can't be very good.

[raybies]

[raybies]

Murray gets matched up against Dunn!!! Should be good.

[Chinook]

See, I agree in theory with this the problem is Manu is not the Manu of your best bench, no player is as impactful at Tiago (IMO, but maybe Kyle turns into that or Dedmon) and while playing the SVG lineup makes sense w/ the players skill sets, everyone is a far worse version talent wise of the guys you mentioned (obviously since that was a starting unit that was really good).

I just don't see top talent (which is what I meant by 6th man) and doing things in a committee approach can prove to be difficult.

I like having one for sure talented stud on the bench and SA doesn't have that - but it's more cir stance and doesn't mean the bench can't be very good.

The Spurs' bench doesn't have a talent issue at all. There isn't a single player in that second unit who wouldn't be a rotation player on other teams. It's really just going to come down to fit. Like, despite what I'm saying, IS Pop going to have Manu dominate the ball against to the detriment of the rest of the bench? Can Patty return to form? Will Anderson be able to handle being a four? I'm not worried about Simmons as the 10th man, but Dedmon fitting in is obvious the huge question mark. I wanted a bench stud, too. But the team brought Manu back instead. You can talk all day about how Manu could do whatever he wanted, but that's where the money went.

The Van Gundy unit doesn't have to be as good as Orlando's. It's a bench behind what should be one of the best first units in the league. Their job is to run and disorient the opponents who were probably just settling into the half-court style of the starters. The advantage is that with guys like Forbes and Murray waiting in the wings, that second unit could stay together for a few years, and they should only get better in that time.

[ElNono]

Well, it should have been more. Dude shot 42 percent from three this summer, including three nights of 50 percent or better and averaging almost four attempts a game. I don't know how much more he would have to shoot to meet your standards.

I know you would. But that's just a horrible idea. No one does that anymore. And Anderson is arguably the best player in the second unit now. He's not going to sit there all day. He needs to go from being a liability spotting up to a threat, and he looks to be well on his way.

That's never going to change. And it shouldn't. First, because the best player in summer league ALWAYS dominates the ball. And second, because he's going to have to have the ball in his hands for the bench to work ... much more so than Manu will need to. Manu might be the heart and engine of the bench, but Anderson, especially at the four, is the fulcrum.

Anderson's not a cutter. It's just not his game. He's gangling and slow-footed. It's very hard to sneak into the paint. He's also a pop-man rather than a roll-man, so even him playing off the ball isn't going to result in cuts.

I think that's going to be the case a lot less than before. Manu's not going to run the show with two other ball-handlers next to him. It just doesn't make a ton of sense, especially not as the overwhelmingly prominent option.

I think the disagreement here is that you think Kyle Anderson is a high quality NBA player (and that's a completely valid opinion), but I completely disagree with that notion. IMO, looking at the overall talent in the league, he's a fringe NBA talent at this point, with way more questions at the NBA level than answers. And so my position is that after two seasons with the team, it's getting time where we get more answers than questions.

I could be wrong on this, but IMO, he's going to have to answer those questions without a leading role, because he hasn't shown, at the NBA level, that he can lead anything. I don't see it in his character, I don't see it in his game, I haven't even really seen it in this Summer League. He didn't go out there and dominate anything. Now, don't get me wrong. I hope he does. That would be incredibly good for the Spurs. But I'm talking with my head, not my heart, as I was telling SAGirl.

I would certainly feel more comfortable with more proven talent, but it is what it is, we're going to go with this, and hopefully it will work out.

It's not about what's best for him anymore. It's about what's best for the bench, and that doesn't always align with Manu like it used to. The Spurs have other players who need to be given room to run next to him, which wasn't the case even two years ago. You don't hold them back to keep trying to get blood from a pile of rubble that used to be a stone.

It's not about Manu, it's about building a unit where everybody plays to their strengths. How you take a bunch of different talent, and build that into a unit that's more than the sums of it's parts. To do that, it's not just Manu that will make sacrifices, but everybody. You're going to need people out there that will need to play off the ball, that will not get touches for long periods of time, that will be out there just doing the dirty work, and you still are going to have to make all of that work without "featuring" anybody, because talent-wise, and until further notice, none of these guys are difference makers on an individual basis.

I mean, if you're not going to be realistic about this, I don't know what to tell you. His USG% is much higher than that of guys like Rondo and CP3, and it's right in line with Parker's. He absolutely dominates the ball, and that's why guys like Hill and Joseph play better without him. Obviously, when Manu was better, it made sense. But that's less the case now.

His usage is high because he runs the offense, but his actual shot attempts (and you have to factor in that he plays with some of the starters too) are the lowest they've been since his rookie season. So he does starts the plays, but he's a guy that shares the ball. It's pretty rare you're going to see him dribbling around and running down the clock (unless it's the end of a quarter). He is going to be the primary pick and roll/pop guy because Patty sucks at it, Simms apparently sucks at it, etc, so that's to be expected. That's the personnel we have.

That's going to have to be Manu this year as much as it will the other guys. He's far from the only guy who can run an offense, and if he needs a whole bunch of off-ball guys to do it, he's not necessarily the best, either.

Anderson is a high-post player, and that's where he got his touches in the SL. As of right now, he's really the only guy to plays in that position for the Spurs, but it's where guys like Lebron and Gay like to make their money. Especially as a PF, I expect Pop to keep him out there when he can make things happen off the dribble rather than trying to put him on the block against bigger guys.

Nah, Anderson got his touches everywhere in the SL. Bringing the ball up, initiating the offense, running the break, in the post. Everywhere. That's good at that level. At the NBA level, he's going to get his touches at certain spots and certain plays, the rest of the time he's going to have to do other things. That goes not just for him, but also Simms, Manu, and everybody else.

[ElNono]

FWIW, I'm not "down" on Anderson. I just didn't see a more calculating, cerebral, if you will, guy than last year. This could all change once there's training camp, roles are assigned and something is built on that. IMO, he's not going to play anything like in the SL with the main team, but that doesn't automatically means he will suck or anything like that. I was hoping to see what he looked like in a more structured approach, which is what you see on NBA teams, but I also understand that it's difficult to do that when you're in a SL, with basically a random collection of guys. I basically have the same questions about him than last season. I was hoping I'll get some of those answers in the SL, but it didn't happen. It's not necessarily his fault. I'll just have to be patient and wait out until the season rolls around.

[Chinook]

I think the disagreement here is that you think Kyle Anderson is a high quality NBA player

I do think that. But I more think that Anderson HAS to be a high-quality NBA player this year for the bench to work. They simply can't afford for him not to be. That's much more important than Manu holding out for another year dominating the ball. As I said, Kyle is the fulcrum. The team's fortune is quite dependent on him, for good or ill.

He didn't go out there and dominate anything.

I think you should look again. What he perfect? No. But he was easily the best player on the team, and he looks further along offensively than Kawhi was going into this third season. I agree he needs to take a more assertive mindset into the season. But his talent is far beyond that of a fringe player. He's definitely in the top half of the big team at this point.

It's not about Manu, it's about building a unit where everybody plays to their strengths. How you take a bunch of different talent, and build that into a unit that's more than the sums of it's parts. To do that, it's not just Manu that will make sacrifices, but everybody. You're going to need people out there that will need to play off the ball, that will not get touches for long periods of time, that will be out there just doing the dirty work, and you still are going to have to make all of that work without "featuring" anybody, because talent-wise, and until further notice, none of these guys are difference makers on an individual basis.

Manu's going to have the make the most sacrifices, because he has the most to give away. Anderson isn't going to lose touches, because he didn't really have any last year. Simmons didn't even get consistent minutes. Being Diaw and West being gone, and Manu taking a step back, Anderson and Simmons will get their touches. They need to get those touches in places that work for them, not in places that work with Manu. There will hopefully be days where Manu is playing at a level where the other guys just get out of the way -- and their improved shooting should help them do that. But for the most part, the offense will be about pressure from a lot of difference sources rather than Manu making things happen.

His usage is high because he runs the offense

And he doesn't need to any more.

his actual shot attempts (and you have to factor in that he plays with some of the starters too) are the lowest they've been since his rookie season

There are plenty of ball-dominant guys who don't shoot a lot. Look at Rondo and Rubio. I'm not about that for Manu.

He is going to be the primary pick and roll/pop guy because Patty sucks at it, Simms apparently sucks at it, etc, so that's to be expected.

Almost no one sucks at PnPing. That pass is usually open. The problem was always getting the ball to the roll-man in the PnR. And having a guy who can catch lobs will make it easier for everyone to hit him, as there is a much large passing area.

Nah, Anderson got his touches everywhere in the SL. Bringing the ball up, initiating the offense, running the break, in the post. Everywhere

I think if you look at his real touches, meaning where the team is trying to get him the ball in particular, you'll see that they're high-post touches. He was hardly on the block at all. He did do some things in transition and spotting up, but he was clearly working in the triple-threat position any time they called a play for him.

[palangi]

Spurs should sign Christian Wood to a make-good. He's better than all their prospect bigs and is available. Won't be for long. A team will sign him by end of summer league.

I'm with you. A 6'11" athletic 4 man that can shoot.

LMA, KA, Wood make a nice PF combo.

[Snaq O'Meal]

I'm with you. A 6'11" athletic 4 man that can shoot.

LMA, KA, Wood make a nice PF combo.

Isn't he already under contract with the 76ers?

[palangi]

Isn't he already under contract with the 76ers?

[palangi]

Isn't he already under contract with the 76ers?

Not as far as I know. Unless he signed yesterday or today?

[raybies]

[ElNono]

I do think that. But I more think that Anderson HAS to be a high-quality NBA player this year for the bench to work. They simply can't afford for him not to be. That's much more important than Manu holding out for another year dominating the ball. As I said, Kyle is the fulcrum. The team's fortune is quite dependent on him, for good or ill.

I agree that all these guys are going to have to be. The problem is that I haven't seen it. That's the concern, otherwise, we're going to be looking at last season, basically. Good enough to beat teams, but when you go against an Iguodala or teams (like OKC last season) that play some of their starters for 44mins, it's not going to cut it. Unfortunately, I had zero indications we've made progress with these guys.

I think you should look again. What he perfect? No. But he was easily the best player on the team, and he looks further along offensively than Kawhi was going into this third season. I agree he needs to take a more assertive mindset into the season. But his talent is far beyond that of a fringe player. He's definitely in the top half of the big team at this point.

Kawhi obliterated the SL, and, I didn't look, but I doubt he dominated the ball or shots as much as Kyle did. I mean, for the heck of it, I checked the stats in Vegas to see where he stacked up against THAT talent, where he apparently "dominated"... If he's a scorer, he's not a top 10 scorer or even had a top 10 FG%, if he's a big, he's not a top 10 rebounder or shot blocker, if his niche is passing, he's not a top 10 assist guy... now, obviously, I'm the first guy that will raise the small sample flag, but again, being "the best player" in this Spurs SL roster I don't know if it's something to brag about. Simms put up numbers too, but you kill him here (and I don't even necessarily disagree with you on that).

I'm 100% with you on the assertive part. I think that's what's lacking with him. I don't know what's going through his mind, but that's what I wanted to see from him. Knowing you're the best guy out there and just really being assertive about it.

Manu's going to have the make the most sacrifices, because he has the most to give away. Anderson isn't going to lose touches, because he didn't really have any last year. Simmons didn't even get consistent minutes. Being Diaw and West being gone, and Manu taking a step back, Anderson and Simmons will get their touches. They need to get those touches in places that work for them, not in places that work with Manu. There will hopefully be days where Manu is playing at a level where the other guys just get out of the way -- and their improved shooting should help them do that. But for the most part, the offense will be about pressure from a lot of difference sources rather than Manu making things happen.

Manu is the least of my concerns, tbh... I know he'll be good enough to run some P&R here or there, but he isn't the reason Pop went out and brought in K-Mart. Or played Boris over Kyle even when Boris looked like he was on vacation in France. Manu sacrificed any semblance of major role a long time ago.

And he doesn't need to any more.

I don't really know. Depends on what we're trying to do with that second unit. It's all about what we're going to run, IMO. One thing is for sure: it's always going to be all about execution. We're not going to freelance out there. Patty has started the offense at times too. I think the problem the last couple of seasons has been that we execute very poorly, and what ends up happening is Manu trying to bail some of that crap out. He's not a guy to do that anymore. We need better cohesion in that unit, really better know-how, execution has to be a lot better. You need smart players for that.

There are plenty of ball-dominant guys who don't shoot a lot. Look at Rondo and Rubio. I'm not about that for Manu.

I don't know about Rubio, but Rondo is a guy that loves to stick to the ball. The contrast with Manu is pretty stark, IMO.

Almost no one sucks at PnPing. That pass is usually open. The problem was always getting the ball to the roll-man in the PnR. And having a guy who can catch lobs will make it easier for everyone to hit him, as there is a much large passing area.

Patty is awful at telegraphing passes. I love him, but that's something that frustrates the out of me (Danny too, BTW). I just can't believe some of these guys have been in the league so long and has such problems with entry passes.

I think if you look at his real touches, meaning where the team is trying to get him the ball in particular, you'll see that they're high-post touches. He was hardly on the block at all. He did do some things in transition and spotting up, but he was clearly working in the triple-threat position any time they called a play for him.

Well, that's the thing I wanted to see and couldn't. What happens in a more structured setup. It's not his fault. Just gonna have to wait until November, I guess.

Gonna get some sleep, I'll be happy to keep going on this tomorrow. Fun stuff to talk about while there's nothing else going on.

[Nathan89]

Not sure why my recording of the game didn't work. Looks like Forbes continued to stink it up though based on the box score.

I don't think KA dominating the ball is going to be very successful this upcoming year. He really needs better off-ball players that allow him to succeed as a first option. Perhaps as a second option with some shifting defense and a better three ball to balance his game he will be pretty solid.

[TheGreatYacht]

Mills-Manu-Bertans-Stokes-Dedmon.... 2 shooters and 2 roll men for Manu. Get it done RC.

[objective]

re: the backcourt of Manu & Parker & even Mills

I wonder just how much the Olympics will fatigue them. That could make a shaky backcourt totally shook.

Because if they're jello legged to start the year, it's going to be rough. Murray isn't close to being ready for primetime, not with that defense.

[Obstructed_View]

Some quick evals:

Murray: Still quick, still physically lottery talent. Still needs to calm WAY down. Can't shoot a lick. Can't dribble up the court without turning it over. People will blame his high dribble, but it's mostly that he thinks he's better than he is. Also, he has no escape move at all.

Archdiacono: Not physically an NBA player. Not good enough at running the point, defending or scoring to make up for it.

LJC: First game, but he didn't look good. Hit a fadeaway late that was magical, but that was basically his only highlight.

Lorbek: Maybe not fair to call him the worst basketball player I've ever seen, but his combination of disinterest and lack of preparation makes him look that way. He likely accepted a summer league invitation as an excuse to gamble. When he's gesturing on the bench, he's not rooting for his teammates, he's trying to flag down a waitress. It's even money that he enters the game with a cigarette at some point. He literally watches the ball, even on offense. He just stands there with his back to the play while everyone else runs around him. My five year old daughter says he looks older than me, so I guess that's something positive. Not for him, but...

As someone else suggested earlier, Dejounte Forbes would be a really great prospect for the Spurs, but that guy probably would have gone tenth.

Jarnell Stokes reminds me of the kid who got held back a grade, so he's bigger than all the other kids and he acts like he owns the playground. He's by far the best big of team, but that's because he can physically dominate kids that he outweighs. He pushes a lot. Imagine David West, two inches shorter, without the jumper. It's a no-brainer to invite him to camp.

[Chinook]

I agree that all these guys are going to have to be. The problem is that I haven't seen it. That's the concern, otherwise, we're going to be looking at last season, basically. Good enough to beat teams, but when you go against an Iguodala or teams (like OKC last season) that play some of their starters for 44mins, it's not going to cut it. Unfortunately, I had zero indications we've made progress with these guys.

I think you just don't want to see it. Anderson has shown as much as anyone can in the summer league. It's not proof that he'll be able to handle big minutes, but there's been a ton of progress.

Kawhi obliterated the SL

No he didn't, especially not in comparison to Anderson. These are their lines:

Kawhi
Season	G	GS	MPG	FG%	3p%	FT%	OFF	DEF	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TO	PF	PPG
2012	2	2	34	0.472	0.25	0.737	1	5	6	3	1	0.5	3	2	25
Anderson
Season	G	GS	MPG	FG%	3P%	FT%	OFF	DEF	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TO	PF	PPG
2016	5	5	29.2	0.524	0.415	0.808	1	6.4	7.4	3.4	2.4	1.4	3	2.4	21.6

Kawhi averaged 25.5 possessions a game to Anderson's 21. There's no way in Kawhi had a better SL than Anderson did. Now, obviously, Kawhi was going into his second season in 2012, so he was a year behind.

I mean, for the heck of it, I checked the stats in Vegas to see where he stacked up against THAT talent, where he apparently "dominated"

Anderson played five SL games, only two of which are in Vegas but all of which are against teams in the Vegas league. His scoring would put him fourth. He's not at the top in rebounding (he'd be like 25ish) but nine rebounds per 36 is more than adequate for a combo-forward. He'd be eighth on in the league in FG% among players who have taken at least 20 shots. He'd be ninth in steals.

Manu is the least of my concerns, tbh... I know he'll be good enough to run some P&R here or there, but he isn't the reason Pop went out and brought in K-Mart.

Manu needs to be higher on your list. You want to make it seem that he'll just chip in here and there, but you also want him to dominate the ball. It doesn't work that way. You can't have the ball and also take a step back, especially when you're next to guys who play best with the ball.

I think the problem the last couple of seasons has been that we execute very poorly, and what ends up happening is Manu trying to bail some of that crap out.

Spoken like a true CoMer. I think there's been a big issue with consistency in the second unit. Guys just took too many nights off. Now Manu wasn't really one of those guys, but he was inconsistent in the sense that he just couldn't do it every night due to age. It also didn't help that they lost Splitter and Baynes at the same time, so they had no one to threaten the rim. That's not nearly as big of a concern with the current bench.

Patty is awful at telegraphing passes. I love him, but that's something that frustrates the out of me (Danny too, BTW). I just can't believe some of these guys have been in the league so long and has such problems with entry passes.

I'm not going to confuse those guys with CP3, but the PnP pass is probably the easiest to make in basketball. Almost all defenses are designed to allow it, and jumping that lane leaves really obvious people open. As far as entry passes go, Green was the main initiator of those plays, and he only had 37 total bad passes last year (his lowest total in four seasons). That really wasn't an issue for him.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Some quick evals:

Murray: Still quick, still physically lottery talent. Still needs to calm WAY down. Can't shoot a lick. Can't dribble up the court without turning it over. People will blame his high dribble, but it's mostly that he thinks he's better than he is. Also, he has no escape move at all.

Archdiacono: Not physically an NBA player. Not good enough at running the point, defending or scoring to make up for it.

LJC: First game, but he didn't look good. Hit a fadeaway late that was magical, but that was basically his only highlight.

Lorbek: Maybe not fair to call him the worst basketball player I've ever seen, but his combination of disinterest and lack of preparation makes him look that way. He likely accepted a summer league invitation as an excuse to gamble. When he's gesturing on the bench, he's not rooting for his teammates, he's trying to flag down a waitress. It's even money that he enters the game with a cigarette at some point. He literally watches the ball, even on offense. He just stands there with his back to the play while everyone else runs around him. My five year old daughter says he looks older than me, so I guess that's something positive. Not for him, but...

As someone else suggested earlier, Dejounte Forbes would be a really great prospect for the Spurs, but that guy probably would have gone tenth.

Jarnell Stokes reminds me of the kid who got held back a grade, so he's bigger than all the other kids and he acts like he owns the playground. He's by far the best big of team, but that's because he can physically dominate kids that he outweighs. He pushes a lot. Imagine David West, two inches shorter, without the jumper. It's a no-brainer to invite him to camp.

today's Lorbek

[Keepin' it real]

Murray gets matched up against Dunn!!! Should be good.

Isn't Dunn out due to concussion protocol?

[SAGirl]

Excellent, dispassionate analysis, Chinook.

Agreed. Chinook with the goods. Don't want to quote an excellent post from him that was already long, so I'll tag on to you.