Page 111 of 143 FirstFirst ... 1161101107108109110111112113114115121 ... LastLast
Results 2,751 to 2,775 of 3574
  1. #2751
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Post Count
    36,459
    I agree with ElNono . Fathead blows.

    He looked pedestrian in Vegas this year and it's his third time there. I could give two s what he does against these scrubs though.... He hasn't shown in the NBA and was the biggest Cancer on the team in the playoffs.

  2. #2752
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    I think you just don't want to see it. Anderson has shown as much as anyone can in the summer league. It's not proof that he'll be able to handle big minutes, but there's been a ton of progress.
    In what sense? He was just as "good" in the SL last season (MVP, right?), but it means absolutely nothing at the NBA level. He couldn't even really break consistently in the rotation, and clearly wasn't ready for a playoffs role.

    No he didn't, especially not in comparison to Anderson. These are their lines:

    Kawhi averaged 25.5 possessions a game to Anderson's 21. There's no way in Kawhi had a better SL than Anderson did. Now, obviously, Kawhi was going into his second season in 2012, so he was a year behind.
    Yes he absolutely did, he came out there playing like he was the best player in the SL and he absolutely looked exactly that. He only played 2 Vegas SL games for the Spurs (IIRC, there was no Utah SL then and there was no SL at all his first season due to the lockout) and he completely dominated those games, to the point the Spurs pulled him, even though it was his first SL ever. Last time I was actually excited about a SL. So I'm comparing to the 2 SL games Kyle played in Vegas this time around against that, and he nowhere near stacks up. Not even close. Especially on the at ude department. Night and day, and Kyle actually has much more experience against that kind of talent. Then again, Kawhi, flaws and all, is a way more talented player than Kyle, so it's not exactly a fair comparison. But the difference in at udes was what I was aiming at, and it's just black and white.

    Anderson played five SL games, only two of which are in Vegas but all of which are against teams in the Vegas league. His scoring would put him fourth. He's not at the top in rebounding (he'd be like 25ish) but nine rebounds per 36 is more than adequate for a combo-forward. He'd be eighth on in the league in FG% among players who have taken at least 20 shots. He'd be ninth in steals.
    I took the Vegas games, because that's really the main SL event and that's what Kawhi played too. Again, big grain of salt due to small sample size and also not really an apples to apples comparison because they played against different talent, but he didn't dominate any category. But what's more, he didn't stood out from that talent level, which is my main concern, tbh...

    Manu needs to be higher on your list. You want to make it seem that he'll just chip in here and there, but you also want him to dominate the ball. It doesn't work that way. You can't have the ball and also take a step back, especially when you're next to guys who play best with the ball.

    Spoken like a true CoMer. I think there's been a big issue with consistency in the second unit. Guys just took too many nights off. Now Manu wasn't really one of those guys, but he was inconsistent in the sense that he just couldn't do it every night due to age. It also didn't help that they lost Splitter and Baynes at the same time, so they had no one to threaten the rim. That's not nearly as big of a concern with the current bench.
    I don't know where you get this idea that Manu "dominates the ball", and I'm not even being sarcastic here. The 2nd unit has been run by committee pretty much since Manu got older 4-5 years ago. It's not me saying it either, everybody here says the same thing. I guess they're all CoMer. Is he heavily involved in execution with that unit, and that's reflected in his usage? You bet. Will he continue to be? There's zero indication that he won't be, mostly because there's been no news about having superlative talent there. Some argue we've taken a step back. That unit run plays, that's all they do. Boris got his touches in the post, West in the pick and roll/pop, Patty in the mid-range or the occasional open 3. When Tiago was around, it was the P&R. When Beli was around, on cuts. There's no secret how that unit runs. I can't even remember the last time Pop called a play for Manu that was not that back-cut under the rim (which they actually run with the starters). The whole foundation with that unit has been for years basically to run flex, unless you have Kawhi or LMA out there. Will Pop call plays for Kyle now? Well, he did used to call plays for Bobo, so I suspect he will.

    And Kyle didn't get "touches" and eventually minutes, because he couldn't beat Bobo for his spot, period. And he didn't because he wasn't substantially better to warrant that, unfortunately. Bobo is not there now, so he'll likely have an opportunity now to earn those touches and that spot. That's all there is to it, and I hope he does well, and I certainly hope he does much better than last season's Bobo.

    I'm not going to confuse those guys with CP3, but the PnP pass is probably the easiest to make in basketball. Almost all defenses are designed to allow it, and jumping that lane leaves really obvious people open. As far as entry passes go, Green was the main initiator of those plays, and he only had 37 total bad passes last year (his lowest total in four seasons). That really wasn't an issue for him.
    He might've improved, but how does he stacks up against the league? Without looking at numbers, I would hazard he's on the lower half in the league as far as passing goes. I hope that's something he worked on during the summer, but then again, there's a lot of things I was hoping he worked on over the summers and never materialized.

  3. #2753
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    I agree with ElNono . Fathead blows.

    He looked pedestrian in Vegas this year and it's his third time there. I could give two s what he does against these scrubs though.... He hasn't shown in the NBA and was the biggest Cancer on the team in the playoffs.
    I won't say he blows. But at best, he's unproven talent at the NBA level. Let's pretend for a sec that after 3 years, he evolved enough and really outgrew the SL level, as the Spurs appear to think he has.

    Now he moves on to earning his spot on the main team playing NBA compe ion. That's the progression. Kawhi is the only guy that broke that mold, because they thought he was really really good, and they thought that basically a years and a half into his career. They dumped RJ basically to hand him the spot. There's no similar situation here, Boris was salary dumped to make cap space available and sign Gasol. Even with Kawhi, Pop really didn't call plays for him for like 3 years.

    I just think people that figure the Spurs are going to change everything to focus on Kyle in that 2nd unit without him actually earning it, are just setting themselves up for disappointment.

  4. #2754
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    ElNono wanting to park Kyle in the corner is a recipe for disaster against the good teams.
    I don't want him to park in the corner. All I'm saying is, if he can't find his niche somewhere else, and his shot looks as improved as been said here, then AT LEAST he could contribute doing that now. You couldn't even play him in that role last season.

    But, again, I'm with you in that we'll have to see how Pop wants to play with this talent. How roles are assigned and especially what kind of style he wants to play with them. My guess looking at what we've been able to see (this is why I wanted to see Bertrans), is that we're going to go back to playing by committee. And hopefully they younger get better, the new guys are hungrier, and we end up with something there.

  5. #2755
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Post Count
    20,702
    I just think people that figure the Spurs are going to change everything to focus on Kyle in that 2nd unit without him actually earning it, are just setting themselves up for disappointment.
    Who are these people your talking about and when did they say that?

  6. #2756
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Post Count
    32,115
    Gonna paraphrase the quotes for everyone's sanity:

    Kawhi dominated Summer League
    Again, he really didn't. I understand that you absolutely, positively will not admit you're wrong (you've warned me about this multiple times), but there is no evidence that Kawhi was anything transcendent then, especially offensively. I think if you dropped Anderson in those games with his lines, he'd've been pulled too. We're going to get into murky and completely non-constructive territory if this stays in the "He looked better, honest" territory.

    Only Vegas games count/they count the most
    Seriously?

    Manu doesn't dominate the ball
    Yes he does. Again, he's right up there with Rondo and CP3. Just because he loves to pass doesn't mean he doesn't dominate the ball. You've confused what he likes to do with what the team's needed him to do. Sometimes they were the same, especially in his prime. But as Joseph is showing now, it's simply not true that Manu makes everyone around him better. The team would have been well-served had they taken the ball out of Manu's hands sooner. Not all the way, or even most of the way for the second unit. But it has stunted the growth of other players before, and it just can't happen this time.

    The Spurs mostly run plays in the second unit
    The Spurs don't usually run plays. They run sets, but those flow organically. Pop only calls plays when he wants specific action. With the bench at it's height, it wasn't with Pop constantly controlling it like Carlisle does with Dallas.

    Anderson didn't beat Diaw for his spot
    What? Anderson had no problem getting minutes last year. He was right behind Diaw in terms of both MPG and total minutes played. They weren't competing with each other for a spot. Anderson was a wing last year. He's a forward this year. And no, they don't play the same position on the court. Anderson is a high-post guy like a lot of combo-forwards. Diaw is a low-post guy, like a lot of fat players.

    Green was a bad entry-passer compared to the league average
    No idea. Dude probably threw 1000 entry passes, and may have turned the ball over on 20 of them. Certainly doesn't warrant ire. Of all of his issues, getting the ball to Leonard and LMA on the block was not one of them.

    Wishing Green added things to his game
    I think we all wish that.

  7. #2757
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    Who are these people your talking about and when did they say that?
    Chinook is certainly advancing that.

  8. #2758
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    682
    Who else do we have other than Anderson on the bench? Mills can be ok, but certainly isn't who we should be building around. We have our worst bench in ages.

  9. #2759
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    27,774
    Personally, I am not as upset at Tony and his contract as I am with Manu and his new one. TP was under contract. However, it seems that Manu kind of forced his way back. I wish he had just retired and left us with his cap space and roster spot to invest on more youth. Oh well, it is what it is...
    Among many things we chatted about b4 summer league and FA was precisely exchanges between the camp in the "woe is me", the "let's mini-tank" camp, and the "we just need to address a few things camp".... I wasn't in any particular camp and I think I changed my mind at least once, eventually Chinook (and a couple others who are more positive) convinced me that even with all the disfunction in last season's team if we were able to fix one issue, we could legitimately be right back in the mix (this was b4 Tim retired and Durant switched teams, I thought Durant would stay in OKC.. yea I was in that camp. oh well)...
    Anyways, I thought well, at least let's fix the bench scoring somehow. One of the ways to address that was just to get a vet that was in his prime. Listen Manu cannot be the Man, that is just clear. Neither can Mills, he's a jumpshooter... and there are legit questions with 22 yr old "limited role last season" Anderson, and Simmons "I am getting benched for fouling and TO over"... so I thought let's just get a veteran who can get buckets and fix that one problem, meantime Pop will sort these two out through the season. I actually saw the light with Boban, bc Boban can just straight up get buckets. Boban instead of Dwest and you have a whole different bench, maybe you can't stop anybody, but was the old bench in reality stopping anybody either? Not even that much of a need to get creative. But Boban was let go. Chinook came up with ideas for a few established but maybe risky guys, but eventually reality dawned on us that Boban was gone, Diaw was gone and we had to make do. No "Gordon" type, not any kind of legit scoring guard who was in his prime would in his right mind come here to play behind Manu. It's like signing Conley to come here and divvy up time with Tony. It wasn't going to happen in any scenario.

    The only way I can see Manu right now is in the immeasurable value that he will bring when Anderson and/or Simmons invariably have a bad game and need support. Also, when they are slacking and need a vet to get in their ear or someone to straight up push them if they are backing down from the "fight" from anybody. It will be a challenge for them. There will be times someone will get the best of them, Pop will chew them, etc. That's usually when a vet presence helps. Basically what Tim did for Kawhi in his later stages of his career, I'd expect Manu to do for both (and Murray and Bertans and whoever youngster is out there). I am sure Pop will still go to Manu a lot, maybe more than we think he should bc by God, we have seen that b4, but I am hoping to see a kind of gradual evolution, as others do more and are able to do more, he will become more of a support player. That kind of support, help, veteran leadership is very valuable and irreplaceable. Perhaps the best way to see the whole situation is that Pop has sufficient faith that the younger players he has will step up and having a veteran like Manu was the most valuable support and help for them. (There is also the "Manu can do whatever he wants" camp... but that's too selfish and gets out of the Spurs team concept. Manu has to help the team).

  10. #2760
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Post Count
    7,288
    I don't want him to park in the corner. All I'm saying is, if he can't find his niche somewhere else, and his shot looks as improved as been said here, then AT LEAST he could contribute doing that now. You couldn't even play him in that role last season.

    But, again, I'm with you in that we'll have to see how Pop wants to play with this talent. How roles are assigned and especially what kind of style he wants to play with them. My guess looking at what we've been able to see (this is why I wanted to see Bertrans), is that we're going to go back to playing by committee. And hopefully they younger get better, the new guys are hungrier, and we end up with something there.
    Parker / Green / Leonard / Aldridge / Pau
    Mills / Manu / Bertans / Anderson / Dedmon <-- Looks to be a very poor defensive team
    Murray / Simmons / LJC / ? / ?

    Mills / Manu / Anderson / LJC / Dedmon <-- better but will have trouble scoring

    Mills / Manu / Simmons / Anderson / Dedmon <-- more scoring
    Anderson / Manu / Simmons / LJC / Dedmon <-- more defense
    Manu / Bertans / Simmons / Anderson / Dedmon <--- hmmmm..... death lineup lite?

    I'm guessing that if Kevin Martin is not picked up elsewhere, he's signing for vet. min. with the Spurs

  11. #2761
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    Gonna paraphrase the quotes for everyone's sanity:
    no problem

    Again, he really didn't. I understand that you absolutely, positively will not admit you're wrong (you've warned me about this multiple times), but there is no evidence that Kawhi was anything transcendent then, especially offensively. I think if you dropped Anderson in those games with his lines, he'd've been pulled too. We're going to get into murky and completely non-constructive territory if this stays in the "He looked better, honest" territory.
    Well, that's not true. Quote? I've admitted to being wrong many times before, and gladly eaten crow when it happened.

    What I'm pretty sure I've said before is that we just won't agree on certain opinions, which are that, opinions. Isn't that what we're discussing here? Did X or Y looked "better". What's "better"? That varies from people to people, that's what opinions are. I have no problem with people having opinions completely different than mine, I just respectfully disagree when I find the arguments given to me are simply lacking. I've had people convince me otherwise too, I've been here long enough, I'm sure some people can attest to that.

    It's like I don't think there are arguments at this point in time that would manage to convince me Anderson is a high quality NBA player. If he turns out to be, I'll be more than happy to admit being wrong, eat crow and pat you in the back.

    Well, we can just simply chalk it up to small sample. It's not my fault Kawhi was so good he only played 2 games in the SL his entire career. It's just what I had to work with.
    I admitted that's a deeply flawed comparison from the very start, for a number of reasons, but at least I was hoping there would be at least a few connections.
    But then, if you want to dismiss it, that's fine. I understand that it is, after all, a flawed comparison.

    Yes he does. Again, he's right up there with Rondo and CP3. Just because he loves to pass doesn't mean he doesn't dominate the ball. You've confused what he likes to do with what the team's needed him to do. Sometimes they were the same, especially in his prime. But as Joseph is showing now, it's simply not true that Manu makes everyone around him better. The team would have been well-served had they taken the ball out of Manu's hands sooner. Not all the way, or even most of the way for the second unit. But it has stunted the growth of other players before, and it just can't happen this time.
    Cory was battling for minutes and a position with Patty, not Manu. That was the guy he had to beat on the rotation for minutes and touches.

    I think your beef deep down is that the system Pop put in place just didn't feature younger, inexperienced guys, but that's a beef with Pop, not Manu. That's a unit that, at least tries to, move the ball. Sure, the objective is to get a great shot for a guy in a position of strength (which as I said, hasn't really been Manu for the past 3-4 years), but that's just been execution being poor, not somebody hogging the ball.

    The Spurs don't usually run plays. They run sets, but those flow organically. Pop only calls plays when he wants specific action. With the bench at it's height, it wasn't with Pop constantly controlling it like Carlisle does with Dallas.
    A lot of what the Spurs do is heavily choreographed. They don't go out there and see what's up (which you do see a lot in the SL). You know that. That's exactly what I meant when I said I wanted to see Kyle on a more structured approach.

    I agree, especially during the regular season, that Pop doesn't micromanage as much as other coaches. But he'll jump right in when execution is crap.

    What? Anderson had no problem getting minutes last year. He was right behind Diaw in terms of both MPG and total minutes played. They weren't competing with each other for a spot. Anderson was a wing last year. He's a forward this year. And no, they don't play the same position on the court. Anderson is a high-post guy like a lot of combo-forwards. Diaw is a low-post guy, like a lot of fat players.
    I think we all wish that.
    Certainly.

  12. #2762
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    Personally, I am not as upset at Tony and his contract as I am with Manu and his new one. TP was under contract. However, it seems that Manu kind of forced his way back. I wish he had just retired and left us with his cap space and roster spot to invest on more youth. Oh well, it is what it is...
    According to Ginobili, Pop called him and told him he wanted him back...

  13. #2763
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Post Count
    7,288
    According to Ginobili, Pop called him and told him he wanted him back...
    Spurs need Manu to orchestrate the offense. Look at the 2nd team...

    Mills / Manu / Bertans / Anderson / Dedmon... Anderson can't do it... nor can Simmons. Mills, Bertans, Demon obviously can't. Murray? (no way).

  14. #2764
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Post Count
    14,298
    SAGirl, I think you are painting a best case scenario. I hope you are right. I just don't see Pop "phasing out" one of his old reliables, but I could definitely be wrong. I do think he has value in a leadership role and transmitting "Spurs Culture" to guys like Murray, who will not experience a team helmed by Timmy. On that note, I do believe that Pau is the best conceivable replacement we could get for Tim. While not steeped in Spurs Culture, he is very Spursy and will help to fill a tiny part of the leadership void.

  15. #2765
    Veteran sasaint's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Post Count
    14,298
    According to Ginobili, Pop called him and told him he wanted him back...
    Figures.

  16. #2766
    I Poop SPURt's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    4,819
    Where can the game today be watched?

  17. #2767
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Post Count
    7,288
    lineup? no bertans?

  18. #2768
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Post Count
    74,377
    pop might have called manu back but thought he would get him cheaper

  19. #2769
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Post Count
    1,256
    No Bertans on the bench..

  20. #2770
    Big in Japan GSH's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Post Count
    14,093
    Gonna paraphrase the quotes for everyone's sanity:

    Again, he really didn't. I understand that you absolutely, positively will not admit you're wrong (you've warned me about this multiple times), but there is no evidence that Kawhi was anything transcendent then, especially offensively.
    Well, that's not true. Quote? I've admitted to being wrong many times before, and gladly eaten crow when it happened.

    It's like I don't think there are arguments at this point in time that would manage to convince me Anderson is a high quality NBA player. If he turns out to be, I'll be more than happy to admit being wrong, eat crow and pat you in the back.

    Well, we can just simply chalk it up to small sample.

    Someone needs to piss on this fire, so it will go out. You two are down to arguing about stats from SL, in different years, and with different but small sample sizes? Seriously? You don't even know what instructions each player got in their SL stints, or what the team wanted to see out of each one. Both of you know better than that.

    SL stats don't mean to begin with, but Kawhi didn't figure out how good he was until the playoffs in 2014. Really, the Finals of 2014. After that, he didn't have to play SL. Had he played the next year, he would have dominated. But regardless of his numbers in SL, Kawhi was CLEARLY a better player than Kyle Anderson from the beginning.

    Kyle may still not know who he is as a player. All that point-forward bull didn't help him out. All the talk about him replacing Manu as the first guy off the bench, and facilitating the offense (even remotely like Manu) didn't help, either. And talking about him being a high-post player "like LeBron"? Poop. That's like saying that Boban is a dominating NBA center, because of what he did in garbage time.

    Anderson is probably going to get pressed into service more this year. We'll see how much he's developed then.

  21. #2771
    Veteran AFBlue's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Post Count
    10,868
    Where can the game today be watched?

  22. #2772
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Post Count
    36,459
    What channel is the game on?

  23. #2773
    Believe. SanDiegoSpursFan's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Post Count
    3,076
    What channel is the game on?
    Not on NBATV or ESPN2, I'm watching on ESPN3.

  24. #2774
    Mr. Dignity Solid D's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    23,462
    It's not on ESPN, ESPN2, or NBATV

  25. #2775
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Post Count
    36,459
    Not on NBATV or ESPN2, I'm watching on ESPN3.
    Thanks

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •