1) The Report:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...?f=2&t=1465870
(Basically a recap of chatter from front-office guys during the summer league. Posting the entire Spurs section, but the last point is the most important.)
2) CredibilityLas Vegas Summer League Notes
...
San Antonio
1. They had to bring Manu Ginobili back, but Philadelphia, and maybe Brooklyn, did force them to overpay.
2. They are in love with Ryan Arcidiacono and Bryn Forbes. They think both guys can be NBA players because of their skills. - Note: They signed both yesterday.
3. They think Jonathon Simmons can play a big role this year because of his energy and ability to get to the hoop.
4. They are a little worried about their defense without Tim Duncan, but have big plans for DeWayne Dedmon. Expect Dedmon to start with Pau Gasol as the primary big off the bench.
Keith Smith is a basketball writer who is a Celtics mod on RealGM (Smitth731). He's basically all of the things you guys like about me and none of the things you guys don't like about me. He's the author of what is easily the most comprehensive spreadsheet out there for NBA salaries:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1562502222 Like Mark Deeks, he's not the quickest with the news, but he's the most accurate at least when it comes to salaries.
He freely admits he's not a reporter, and if you know of him at all, it's possible that you do because he sort of "broke" a Griffin-to-Boston trade that hasn't happened yet. So right now, he's not on the tier right Woj in terms of dropping bombs. Still, this is Spurstalk, not a court of law.
3) Veracity
I believe Smith did hear the chatter. He has a good track record and does too much other good work for it to make sense for him to damage his credibility about a team/fanbase he probably don't care much about at all. But that's only part of the equation. Who was his source? The big possibility would be RC, since he was there and easily available and would obviously know what the team was thinking. But there were other Spurs' people there, including some FO guys probably and definitely the SL coaching staff. The latter group doesn't really seem to have much credibility, except for maybe Becky. Then there could be their players, but I consider that completely unlikely. Regardless of who said it, I have a hard time believing it. They didn't even know they were going to get Dedmon (although by the time whoever talked to Smith, they did, obviously), I don't think they'd be crazy enough to plan on starting Willie Reed, and he was the runner up.
4) Implications
Like OMG. It's strange to think Pau would be okay with this. But if it were something the Spurs would say during the SL, then you'd have to think they talked to him about it prior to signing him. Whether it works out that Pau comes off the bench or not, it sure does suggest that he's not obsessed with starting. But it does make sense. Off the bench, the Spurs are looking to play one-in-four-out, so he'd probably get a sh'ton of low-post touches he wouldn't necessarily be able to have with the starters. I'd probably be hurt defensively, however, playing without at least one of Green or Kawhi a lot of the time.
For the bench, it would change my projection of their offense. I'd actually expect it to be closer to how the starters roll, with Anderson playing the Kawhi role on offense and Pau playing the LMA role. I don't know how much I would like that. Manu would just sort of be there, like Parker is with the starters. Mills should be fine. And Bertans/Simmons would probably get touches. But I don't think there's a consistent plan of attack with that unit. Just seems like a lot of iso's and jump-shooting. Should help stave off worry about the bench not having talent or go-to offense, though.
For the starters, it sort of allows them to keep their offense from last year. Dedmon doesn't have Tim's upside offensively, but if he can board and finish, he should be able to be more effective than Tim was at the end. Parker gets another PnR partner, which might help him drive more easily. Green gets a dump-off man on his ill-fated drives. For the folks wanting that big roll-man/finisher, you'd be getting your wish. Defensively, the idea of funneling to Dedmon seems interesting. Dude's a talented shot-blocker, and you'd hope Danny and Kawhi would put him in easy-help positions. He can show on the PnR and recover, so that's an improvement over Duncan. But he's also a foul-machine, at least for a potential starter. Tim's best defensive attribute was that he contested so well without fouling. Would be an adjustment.
For Dedmon, I think this would hurt him. The SL won't have the spacing the bench was projected to. I think he's getting third-big minutes no matter where he is in the rotation, so instead of being a pillar of offensive ball-movement as he would be off the bench, he would be the fifth option that'd really only get touches if the third option can't find a way to score. He'd have to live as a garbage man, which is cool, but not as glamorous. Could still end up closing out games if he plays his role well enough, though.
tl;dr: Keith Smith is credible, but I'm not sure his source is correct. Would be interesting if they were, though. Pau solves bench scoring issue but probably takes away flow in order to get his touches. Dedmon starting clears a bit of the "only one ball" murkiness of the projected SL, but he probably will have to depend on Parker to get non-garbage buckets. May hurt spacing but should be better defensively than it would have been with Pau if Dewayne can avoid fouling.
Thanks for sharing, interesting stuff... hopefully Dedmon lives up to expectations (which shouldn't be to replace Duncan defensively, but do provide some help defending the rim).
I could see it. Dedmon is going to do all the dirty work, and make it extremely tough to score in the paint against us. Making everything much easier for Aldridge.
That Gasol and Manu pick n roll, and pick n pops off the bench though
Yeah, I'm thinking they want basically an athletic Thiago... low-key, blue-collar guy that complements LMA's weaknesses defensively, while gets out of the way offensively.I could see it. Dedmon is going to do all the dirty work, and make it extremely tough to score in the paint against us. Making everything much easier for Aldridge.
That Gasol and Manu pick n roll, and pick n pops off the bench though
Although, I gotta say, I'm not sure if Pau wouldn't start, as suggested, but I can see Pop doing this thing where Pau starts and plays for 5 mins, then plays the bulk of time with the bench + maybe closing out games.
People that aren't excited about all this stuff next season, need to wake up, IMO.
Pau will turn into Diaw 1.0 if he gets benched.
Was sort of thinking about something like how Manu used to be where someone else would "start" but not really get the bulk of the playing time. If Pau is okay with not starting, I do like him coming in and providing that extra burst of offense while Dedmon just sort of helps Parker get warmed up. It really comes down to how good Dedmon's man defense is. If he can guard opposing bigs well, I think it'd be best for the team if he started so that LMA could focus on scoring. But if he's just an energy big, then coming off the bench with that pace-and-space second unit seems like the solution.
That's the fear I have, hence why I'm disinclined to agree with Smith's source. But it being considered the plan so early in the off-season suggests to me that Gasol is at least aware of this plan and has agreed to try it. Colors his signing differently for sure.Pau will turn into Diaw 1.0 if he gets benched.
Yeah the only reason I can't see Pau not starting is if Aldridge starts off a little rough again which I doubt this year, because I think spacing will be even better with the starting lineup.
I'm super excited! Spurs could throw a nice 8-9 man rotation in the playoffs out there with a ton of potential that can hang with anyone in the league, even the Warriors. Would be nice to see two of our handful of rookies that may be on this team show some great promise also.
i prefer dedmon starting, from a few days ago:
I like it a lot tbh. Would speak well of Pau and help kind of set him up as a leader similar to Tim (sacrificing for the greater good). More interested in the Arci/Forbes news, though.
Nah, I dont see it.
Dedmon might get more mins but i dont see him startin over Pau!
The start, play a short stint then act as a C on the bench seems like the ideal use. Gasol will want (deserve) a larger slice of the offensive pie than Tim, and that either comes at the expense of the other starters (TP could shoot a smudge less, though I don't think Danny should and Kawhi / LMA will continue to get fed).
Gasol at backup C feels like the best use of his strengths and weaknesses, as he can be an ISO / post up big against weaker bigs in second units, and his lack of foot speed shouldn't be as exposed against backup PGs. I'd think similar in usage to Al Jefferson in Charlotte / an ideal use of Vucevic in beating up on backup Centres. It's just hard to get up towards 30 minutes if he comes off the bench - Takes out 5 minutes of rest in the middle(and, Fat Boris concerns)
Start, play ~ 5 minutes, on the bench for the next 5, back on at 2, play until 8 left in second, rest, come with 4 minutes left gives 15 minutes per half, and means his sole big stint should be mostly against backup PGs).
I dont see it happening but if it does, it would be an interesting exeperiment to save Pau from RS wear and tear. Like how we started one of Bonner or Blair for a time. Pau would likely get bigger minutes come playoff time.
Btw why not start Mills or Manu and have TP run the bench with Murray at backup SG. Its not like the defense would take a huge hit without TP amd against their bench TP could go back to scoring 15 per game
Mills is a far worse defender than TP. You can at least sometimes TP on weak sg. No chance with Mills. And Manu is your backup sg, not Murray. Then Simmons before Murray.
Thanks for sharing the scoop!!!!
Taking it with a grain of salt and then some, bc I don't think even the Spurs know yet how they are really going to play. At least the players asked about it didn't know. In one interview Simmons said coaches told him he'd be doing about the same in the RS, but obviously a lot less of it bc of the players that the team has. In another, Anderson was asked how he could translate his success as a first option in SL into the RS and he said he couldn't answer that question well bc he didn't know what role he would be asked to play. It gives perspective to the fact that the players were there working on stuff that were probably weak areas (3 pts shooting for Anderson, playing as a big exclusively, while for Simms, ball handling, decision-making, midrange shooting, defense without fouling etc) but the rest is really up in the air.
I really don't know Dewayne that much. Highlights are not what I consider know some guy, but if he's a better option defensively than this version of Gasol we are getting, I could see Pop doing it to alleviate the burden on LMA since for Pop defense is first and foremost. It might not be above Pop to challenge Gasol's pride to sacrifice for the team in true Spurs fashion, but it's a bit shocking since there was so much press over Gasol forcing Noah to the bench as it was. And really if we are talking about the Spurs signing a dominant big to score in the post for the bench, let's bring out the elephant in the room: they could have signed Boban to that role quite honestly... so it's ??? It doesn't add up.
I also thought a bench that would have a lot of young players none of whom is a defensive presence would be well served by having a defensive big to cover up for the other big likely being Anderson or Bertans.
For the starters, the Spurs offense involved Tim on hi-lo with LMA and Tim made many passes to cutters that Pau is capable of. But taking Pau out of the equation is maybe a way to force LMA and Kawhi into a 2 man game and chemistry that they never developed. Neither guy strikes me as a gifted passer but it might be a way to really force the action between them and have them create for others. It's exciting to see further developments for them as well as for the bench, yet at the same time I am not convinced.
I never thought of this, because I didn't think Dedmon was that good. If this is true I can get behind it; I trust Pop. This would fix all the potential issues I was thinking the team could have. The starters would be able to play faster and Gasol would stabilize the bench. It allows us to play the same as last year (and into the future), but maybe without the sexy high-low action. Some good wing defenders in front could help Dedmon cut down on fouling so much as well. The more I think about this the more I like it. Hopefully he can learn the offense quickly enough so he doesn't stop things up too much.
This isnt about how good dedmon is but you might as well start him.if hes playing well ride him if not then oh well go to gasol.whoever plays the first 4-5 minutes isnt going to matter much
Dont think dedmon will be much use off the pine
The bit about JSimms playing a big role, as a bench scorer? Could he be a guy to start and have Danny reinforce the bench? I am not sure.
You afraid Simmons is gonna take Kyle's shots?
If the Spurs do that, you think Dedmon would only be starting and Pau finishing games? If that is the case, I think Pau might be OK with it if he gets to finish games.
Anyone think Dedmon could become good enough to finish games? I really don't even remember seeing him play last season. Did he get many minutes when Orlando played the Spurs?
No I was considering the possibility for real of Pau in the bench and how maybe Danny can help the bench defense. The bit about JSimms increased role could be about him starting.... you are assuming stuff I didn't type.You afraid Simmons is gonna take Kyle's shots
It's rather the concern about Pau/ANderson or Pau/Bertans defensively. Kyle was very good defensively last season, but that was as a wing, as a big it's another matter and Bertans it's even more if a question mark. I think they will be alright but it's fine to wonder about that without regard for Anderson shooting, which by the way he was already a lower usage player than Simmons last season. Simmons wasn't a good defender though so I am not sure.
To be fair, the majority of Simmons minutes came against legitimate compe ion whereas Anderson's bulk came against blown out end of bench guys. If Diaw could play bigs, Kyle should be able. He looked bigger and is a much better rebounder than diaw. I'm looking forward to seeing if Kyle can keep the weight on and be a true 3/4 tweener. He would be a legitimate stretch 4 if he could. I honestly can't wait to see the young guys getting playing time. They need it desperately. That's where players develop the most. Even if they struggle all year, that's fine, by playoff time they will have learned some much needed aspects by simply logging time against NBA players.
I could see a change in rotation to beef the bench, Simmons would fit better with his ability but not sure I trust him enough for legitimate minutes. Only one way to find out if he can tho I guess.
Bertans has always been a wing. He moves like a wing too. Have the spurs given any intention to play him at the 4? I missed something, as most of spurstalk seems to have him pegged as a 4 when he's always been a 3.
hes only averaged 13 min a game in his career
I don't know how you can be legit in stating that when Kyle started games for both Tim and Kawhj and was a regular rotation player which Simmons was not. If anything a great majority of Simmons time was against benches and garbage time games. It was precisely defensive deficiencies and fouling that got him on the deep end of the bench.
Edit: not meant as an attack to Simms it's just the statement was way off. He did go against Curry, Paul, and Irving one game each respctively, but that's far from 900 minutes he averaged for the season. The rest of your post I can get behind but this was inaccurate.
On another note ppl did remark about Simms chemistry with Kawhi and that also made me wonder. ...
Last edited by SAGirl; 07-17-2016 at 04:50 AM.
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