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You Lie
Islamic extremists are no more acceptable than Christian Taliban, Phelps church, abortionist-murderers-for-Christ, etc, etc.
Not really. That is some bull propaganda schtick, made up by people who don't really understand the problem, to create some meme to criticize a political party that sounds good to people too ignorant to recognize the schtick for what it is.
Hook.
Line.
Sinker.
"if only we called out radical islam"
All that said without watching the videos. I guess I can watch it, but doubt I am going to see anything substantive.
You Lie
Islamic extremists are no more acceptable than Christian Taliban, Phelps church, abortionist-murderers-for-Christ, etc, etc.
I will agree to disagree. Anyone that believes in Sharia law is NEVER going to accept American values and assimilate into American society and if they don't do that they damn well need to go back to wherever the they came from..
(shrugs)
I am happy to discuss radical Islam.
I think the charge that somehow liberals are afraid to "call a spade a spade" is bull . I'm not sure what "calling out" even means. It is one of those stupid, vague terms that people use when they aren't really thinking, but want to be emotional about something.
Islam, like the other abrahamic religions, is inherently violent, if you really read the holy books in any literal way.
I just don't draw any distinction between islam and christianity, or judaism that way. Most muslims, like most christians tend to ignore the parts of the books that are particularly violent.
I am, however, happy to accede that some religions, based on underlying doctrine are more violent than others. The problem is how that is really determined. What metric does one use?
What about practicing bible law?
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
What about the catholic church forbidding divorce?
Define "sharia", specifically, then explain how that differs from the things that Christians live by, as specifically as possible.
what about Jews and Christians who voluntarily submit to Jewish and Christian "law", should they "go back to wherever the they came from" ?
https://www.quora.com/For-what-reaso...S-get-divorced
Mormon approval for divorce/remarriage is:
Is that OK?Approval must be obtained from the First Presidency of the Church.
Southern Baptists forced all sorts of Blue laws
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law
Where do we really draw the line between religious practice that tends to be informal, and giving the force of laws to something ultimately, solely, religious?In the United States, the U.S. Supreme Court has held blue laws as cons utional numerous times, citing secular basis, even though the origin of the blue laws was for religious purposes. Blue laws are technically classed as "mala prohibita" or "wrong [as or because] prohibited" (as opposed to "mala in se" or "wrong or evil in itself"). Most blue laws have been repealed in the United States, although many states still ban the sale of alcoholic beverages or cars on Sundays. Bergen County, New Jersey is notable for their blue laws banning the sale of clothing, shoes, furniture, home supplies and appliances on Sundays kept through county-wide referendum.[1]
I personally don't want any kind of purely religious bull forced into law, "sharia" or otherwise.
Obvious harm is obvious harm. Murder = bad.
We can all agree on that, and we don't need some made-up holy book to tell us that.
I think the distinction is that there really is no current parallel to orginazations like ISIS in the name of other religions. At least not one of comparable size or influence. And I'm not aware of any government that endorses an actual Christian version of sharia, despite boutons and his hysteria.
Sharia is Islamic law, but the "belief" in Sharia is the belief that a government or legal system needs to work exactly in concert with the canonical Islamic beiefs. It would be the same as a country demanding it's law be exactly like the Bible, including death penalty for striking a parent, making it legal to sell a daughter into slavery, etc. I'm not aware of any such group (a notable one) demanding that to be the law of the land.
That is an especially ignorant argument, but I would expect no less from you.
We aren't talking about self imposed dietary restrictions or other self imposed behavioral modifications based on conscience.
Sharia is a total rejection of the US Cons ution, Bill of Rights, and US Legal system. It calls for arbritary death to LBGTQ's and treats women as slaves/property, promotes "honor" killings, etc.. It is totally irreconcilable with US societal values.
"government or legal system needs to work exactly in concert with the canonical Islamic beiefs"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology
There are Christians who want the entire legal system replaced with the Ten Commandments and the Bible.
Sure. Happy to accede that.
I noticed you dodged the other questions.
Should we make Christianity the official state religion here?
We aren't talking about a few nut jobs Boo...
The Pew Research Center estimates that the number of Muslims in the United States was 2.75 million in 2011, and growing at a rate of 80-90 thousand a year. If those estimates are accurate, the United States would have approximately 3 million Muslims today. That would translate into roughly 300,000 Muslims living in the United States who believe that shariah is “The Muslim God Allah’s law that Muslims must follow and impose worldwide by Jihad.”
You aren't paying attention. Selling daughters into slavery is not something any sane christian zealot would advocate, but there are plenty that would go a lot farther down the biblical law route than you would be comfortable with.
Setting aside, for a moment, the morality of any God that thinks slavery is ok in the first place, which the God of the bible clearly does not. That is a whole other can of worms, you might not want to open.
No. I personally, like you, want religion out of our legal system. I could give a about abortion or LBGTQ's one way or another. Obviously some religious commandments that apply to civil safety like murder, theft, rape, etc. should cross over.
Yeah well devout believers of sharia law don't hold the same reservations that you claim "even the most zealous Christians" would. They'd gladly enforce every tenant in the quran
I already explained the argument above, but you're too lazy to see that apparently. How about you watch the videos, understand the argument, educate yourself, and then comment rather than use emojis?Not really. That is some bull propaganda schtick, made up by people who don't really understand the problem, to create some meme to criticize a political party that sounds good to people too ignorant to recognize the schtick for what it is.
Hook.
Line.
Sinker.
"if only we called out radical islam"
All that said without watching the videos. I guess I can watch it, but doubt I am going to see anything substantive.
That's a fair question. I think call out can mean any number of things, including: empowering moderate muslims to speak out against those who cling to sharia law, holding our leaders accountable when radical islam is clearly a cause in mass shootings, like Orlando, and being willing to identify the differences between Islam and other religions as they are practiced today to criticize beliefs like the penalty for apostasy is death.
Also true, but the numbers of those who take the Koran literally vs. those who take the Talmud or the New Testament literally are staggering. See the chart you acceded to below for an example.
But there are very real differences. Ask a muslim, a christian, or a jew if they think there isn't a very real distinction between the three religions and you'll have a very different answer. And there are historical differences in both religions that make them very different as well. There have been essentially two reformations of Christianity, along with historical events like the inquisition that have had a liberalizing effect at least as evaluated today that simply aren't present for Islam.
Also, I don't know where you're getting the fact that many muslims ignore parts of the book that are particularly violent. Which muslims and what is "most" (that's a very vague word)? Are they devout or moderate? Sunni or Shia? American or Egyptian? Etc. etc.
I'm not defending Christianity. I'll concede that it a violent past and is a pretty ed up set of beliefs. I'm like CC, religion has no place in politics. I'll go further and say that it has no place anywhere except a place of worship or your home. Period. But these concessions don't exonerate Islam. In fact, they're all the more reason why Islam is so ed.
Last edited by vy65; 07-22-2016 at 01:35 PM.
I agree with this, but I don't think it's limited to ISIS. ISIS isn't representative of all muslims abroad. That being said, the number of muslims who could be considered "fundamentalist" (i.e., who want Sharia) are staggering -- it's a much larger subset than, but which also includes, ISIS.
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