Billy has a .300 OBPStill slower than Billy, Trea, Trayce, Cespedes, and a few others in baseball
Gemili is the 3rd fastest 200m teenage sprinter in HISTORY, not just among white sprinters.And if you want to use "white boy" logic, then you would have to admit that a quick brother like Billy Hamilton or Terrence Gore would probably be a better sprinter than half white/Arab Gemili if they converted. Like I said, Orlando was about as fast as a junior sprinter as Gemili, and he gets torched by Gore on his own team.
Yes, I do. It would be like 1994 (Admiral vs Dream). McHale had just as many low post moves IMO.Shaq really couldn't, and you think the 215lb McHale could
And
Matter of fact, the last time he was healthy in the playoffs, he closed Jim out...just like that!
Who cares? He's a not a soccer player.Billy out there batting .240
Gemili is the 3rd fastest 200m teenage sprinter in HISTORY, not just among white sprinters & he did it after 3 years of training.
Some more data:
Fastest EPL speeds this year. Still don't touch what we've seen in the MLB this season
Why bring up Billy's batting average? We're talking about athleticism here.
Swallow det pride and just admit you were wrong about baseball players being unathletic? I mean, if they're unathletic, what does that make floptrot players who can't even beat these "fatties" in a race
Check this out, bro. That's 6'5" 250lb running 21.2 mph
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/7395516...ton%2Bstatcast
Faster than Ronaldo's fastest ever recorded top speed.
"Fatball" yeah, okay
We've already slapped down that myth in another thread.Yes, I do. It would be like 1994 (Admiral vs Dream). McHale had just as many low post moves IMO.
And
Matter of fact, the last time he was healthy in the playoffs, he closed Jim out...just like that!
Ahem...
I expect you toI decided to go over the 01, 02, 03 Lakers/Spurs playoffs series to see who was primarily guarding Shaq and how effective they were in guarding him. I didn't go over every possession, but I decided to look at every FGA and turnovers forced that Shaq had in those games. I didn't get every game from that 01-03 span because youtube didn't have all of them, but I did get a majority of the games.
vs. Duncan: 21-49 (.429), 8 TOV (5 of them charges/offensive fouls drawn)
vs. Robinson: 31-63 (.492), 5 TOV (1 offensive foul)
vs. Rose: 15-27 (.556), 2 TOV (2 offensive fouls)
vs. Other big men (Bryant, Willis, Walker): 6-12, 1 TOV (1 offensive foul)
vs. Guards: 0-3
vs. open shots with no one guarding Shaq: 11-13
I also kept track of double teams both before the shot and double teams during the shot (sometimes both happened). I didn't count double teams that had no effect on the shot or soft double teams.
vs. Duncan: 11 before shot, 14 after shot, 20 total double teams (35.1% double team%)
vs. Robinson: 10 before shot, 15 after shot, 23 total double teams (33.8% double team%)
vs. Rose: 4 before shot, 5 after shot (33.3% double team%)
vs. other big men: 2 before shot, 3 after shot, 3 total double teams (23.1 double team%)
In 2003, The Spurs made a concerted effort not to double Shaq. They even mentioned it in one of the broadcasts where Popovich told them that they didn't want anyone else to beat them. In the other years, Shaq got a decent amount of double teams and very few triple teams. Most of the double teams I saw were soft and had no effect. Shaq was making his move by the time the double came.
Now here are the stats for who was guarding Shaq in the games Duncan/Robinson played (Robinson missed 1 of the games). This is why I started the project. I wanted to see if Robinson was the sole Shaq defender or if the Spurs took turns defending him.
Duncan 31.0%
Robinson 46.9%
Rose 19.3%
Willis 2.1%
Walker 0.7%
I didn't include any wide open shots or times when guards defended him. Usually, Robinson started off the game vs. Shaq. Then Rose would come in and guard Shaq and take turns with Duncan. Usually in the middle of the game, Duncan and Robinson took turns guarding Shaq even in clutch situations.
Here are Shaq's numbers from 01-03 including regular season and playoffs vs. Spurs.
Per 36 numbers:
vs. Rest of league: 57.4 FG%, .583 TS%, 26.6 PPG, 11.2 Reb, 3.10 AST, 2.71 TOV
vs. With Robinson on Court: 51.7 FG%, .545 TS%, 22.9 PPG, 12.1 Reb, 3.08 AST, 2.75 TOV
Difference: -5.7 FG%, -3.8 TS%, -3.7 PPG, +0.9 Reb, -0.02 AST, +0.04 TOV
Per 36 numbers:
vs. David Robinson: 51.7 FG%, .545 TS%, 22.9 PPG, 12.1 Reb, 3.08 AST, 2.75 TOV
vs. Robinson off the court: 49.5 FG%, .528 TS%, 21.5 PPG, 11.1 Reb, 1.99 AST, 2.68 TOV
Difference: -2.2 FG%, -1.7 TS%, -1.4 PPG, -1.0 Reb, -1.09 AST, -0.07 TOV
Duncan looked slightly better vs. Shaq and the numbers back it up. There were plenty of instances where Shaq couldn't back down Duncan. But Shaq did dunk on him quite a bit. Shaq dunked on everyone from the Spurs.as much as the floptrot crew has been.
Great strategy by Pop. In the end, it's still 4-2, Kobe. Forever.We've already slapped down that myth in another thread.
Ahem...
I expect you to
Just like it's 2-1 Nash and 1-0 DirkGreat strategy by Pop. In the end, it's still 4-2, Kobe. Forever.
Not exactly, but OK.Just like it's 2-1 Nash and 1-0 Dirk
Exactly the same thing. Kirby is 1-3 vs. Nash and Dirk.Not exactly, but OK.
Or maybe don't be an idiot and use head-to-head matchups as proof of anything?
Until basketball becomes a 1-on-1 game, head-to-head is meaningless in player comparison.
How about this?
8>12
Yeah, David Ortiz can't outrun my grandmother & he's an MVP candidate.
This is the equivalent of the original Ronaldo still being a world-class player since he still has his skills intact despite losing his raw athleticism.
All the world class footballers have BOTH athleticism & skills not one or the other.
The GOAT besibol player:
Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 07-24-2016 at 10:06 PM.
Ortiz cranked it up to 16.4mph here.Yeah, David Ortiz can't outrun my grandmother & he's an MVP candidate.
This is the equivalent of the original Ronaldo still being a world-class player since he still has his skills intact despite losing his raw athleticism.
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/7395516...al-second-base
Top speeds reached in a soccer match:
Ortiz isn't slow. Again, shredded=/=fast.
Those are pretty rare these days my man.
Missed your edit.Yeah, David Ortiz can't outrun my grandmother & he's an MVP candidate.
This is the equivalent of the original Ronaldo still being a world-class player since he still has his skills intact despite losing his raw athleticism.
All the world class footballers have BOTH athleticism & skills not one or the other.
The GOAT besibol player:
What the do you think strength is, dumbass?
Ortiz an MVP candidate
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting...6/seasontype/2
Duncan is a terrible all around athlete in his current form. Hasn't jumped higher than 10" in 3 seasons. Can't run worth a . And yet, he was still a top 12 player per RPM last season, and still showed he could play well offensively on a bad knee when he scored 19 points in the Game 6 closeout game. So by your logic, basketball players aren't athlete because a 40 year old with bad knees can be one of the better players in the league
Quit spinning and just admit your error, and we end this debate and move on.
Mertesacker is faster than Ortiz but listen to what fans have to say about him:Ortiz cranked it up to 16.4mph here.
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/7395516...al-second-base
Top speeds reached in a soccer match:
Ortiz isn't slow. Again, shredded=/=fast.
I don't care. Mertwhatever is a slow soccer player and Ortiz is a slow baseball player, and they're both in the same speed range. The average MLB speed per MPH on the basepaths according to statcast is 19.5mph.Mertesacker is faster than Ortiz but listen to what fans have to say about him:
Quit in' spinning and just take the L.
And still posting Ruth
"I'll post a fat baseball player from 90 years ago. That'll show 'em!"
That said, the GOAT soccer player is a literal (not figurative) midget.
And he didn't play 90 years ago in a weak era
Odds as of July 13 at Bovada
- Mike Trout (LAA) +350
- Josh Donaldson (TOR) +375
- Jose Altuve (HOU) +500
- Manny Machado (BAL) +550
- Robinson Cano (SEA) +600
- David Ortiz (BOS) +600
- Mookie Betts (BOS) +1200
- Xander Bogaerts (BOS) +1600
- Miguel Cabrera (DET) +2500
- Jackie Bradley Jr. (BOS) +2500
- Nelson Cruz (SEA) +2500
Tim plays a position where HEIGHT matters A LOT & he's in the top 1% as far as height goes. Besides, he used to beat centers down the floor as recently as last season. Meanwhile, Ortiz is HEALTHY & has ALWAYS been a below average athlete.Duncan is a terrible all around athlete in his current form. Hasn't jumped higher than 10" in 3 seasons. Can't run worth a . And yet, he was still a top 12 player per RPM last season, and still showed he could play well offensively on a bad knee when he scored 19 points in the Game 6 closeout game. So by your logic, basketball players aren't athlete because a 40 year old with bad knees can be one of the better players in the league
Ortiz is putting up RAW numbers on par w/ his PEAK, Tim was averaging 8 pts.
Who the cares what the pinch runner's foot-speed is if he's a scrub at the plate.
You need BOTH athleticism & skill to be a world-class footballer like Ronaldo/Messi/Bale which isn't the case in Besibol.
Billy Hamilton isn't a "scrub" at the plate. He's an average player with starter metrics. Try again.Who the cares what the pinch runner's foot-speed is if he's a scrub at the plate.
You need BOTH athleticism & skill to be a world-class footballer like Ronaldo/Messi/Bale unlike besibol.
Again, when does strength not count as an athletic trait, dumbass?
Yeah, the kind of strength Ortiz has to be able to hit balls 450 feet just grows on trees
Nope. Because strength is one of the most important athletic traits you can have in many sports, and Ortiz has FAR ABOVE AVERAGE strength relative to the general population. Again, dumb , when does fat=/=unathletic? You've sidestepped that question for a month now.
Tim plays a position where HEIGHT matters A LOT & he's in the top 1% as far as height goes. Besides, he used to beat centers down the floor as recently as last season. Meanwhile, Ortiz is HEALTHY & has ALWAYS been a below average athlete.
Ortiz is putting up RAW numbers on par w/ his PEAK, Tim was averaging 8 pts.
And Ortiz still geared it up to 16.4 mph at in' 40. Slow by baseball standards, but fast by general population standards and ON PAR with the speeds the slowest soccer players run. Try again.
And
I know I've got you spinning when you're referencing Tim's PPG. You of all people, an advanced metrics guy, resorting to raw stats because you just can't stop spinning. Duncan had the 12th best floor impact of all starters last season. He was, by all accounts, a star level player and an ELITE defender. Just like Ortiz is an ELITE hitter.
Suck up your pride, admit error, and we can finally move on.
This skinny fat beanpole's top recorded speed is 15.9 mph:
Slower than Ortiz.Perhaps the major problem with Januzaj and Dortmund is the fact that the pair were never a good match in the first place. Januzaj can be scintillating on the ball, but his work off the ball leaves a lot to be desired. The winger’s slight frame means it’s easy for opposition defenders to muscle him off the ball. Additionally, Januzaj is not one to track back and is often slow in closing down.
So since he doesn't have any speed nor strength, what athletic traits does this guy possess? By all accounts, he seems to be a FAR BELOW AVERAGE athlete. At least Ortiz excels in strength. This guy excels in nothing.
"You need athleticism and skills to be a world class soccer player." lmao
Here's where Kawhitstorm tells me making it to the Premier League isn't world class, especially considering the billion deep talent pool.
What the does him being 5'3" has to do with his athleticism?And still posting Ruth
"I'll post a fat baseball player from 90 years ago. That'll show 'em!"
That said, the GOAT soccer player is a literal (not figurative) midget.
And he didn't play 90 years ago in a weak era
He had everything you need from a playmaker: one top of being supremely skilled, he was quick, agile, strong & had a non-stop motor ala Chris Paul except he wasn't a choker.
A guy that had a speed-endurance translatable to the football pitch is none other than 2000m/5k/10k/X-country world-record holder Kenenisa Bekele, all 5'4" of him:A classic number 10, Maradona was renowned for his dribbling ability, vision, close ball control, passing and creativity, and is considered one of the most skillful players ever.[78][85][86] He had a compact physique, and with his strong legs and low center of gravity he could withstand physical pressure well while running with the ball.[87] Dutch legend Johan Cruyff saw similarities between Maradona and Lionel Messi with the ball seemingly attached to their body when dribbling.[88] His physical strengths were illustrated by his two goals against Belgium in the 1986 World Cup. He was a strategist and a team player, as well as highly technical with the ball. He could manage himself effectively in limited spaces, and would attract defenders only to quickly dash out of the melee (as in the second 1986-goal against England),[89] or give an assist to a free teammate. Being short, but strong, he could hold the ball long enough with a defender on his back to wait for a teammate making a run or to find a gap for a quick shot.
You're finally getting it. FINALLY. Physique doesn't define athleticism.What the does him being 5'3" has to do with his athleticism?
He had everything you need from a playmaker: one top of being supremely skilled, he was quick, agile, strong & had a non-stop motor ala Chris Paul except he wasn't a choker.
Even your favorite player Pablo Sandoval recorded a higher top speed than this "shredded" soccer player:
https://twitter.com/statcast/status/521652161176825856
I don't care about African marathon runners. Irrelevant to this debate.
Gonna keep spinning, or will you finally admit baseball players aren't unathletic?
Dumbass, Original Ronaldo was strong & skilled when he was past his prime.
FIFYAnd Ortiz still geared it up to 16.4 mph at in' 40. MVP status by baseball standards, but scrub status by futbol standards
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/24/sp...ke-an-mvp.htmlAnd
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...on-with-al-mvp
Tim was an elite defender who played ZERO meaningful minutes against the Duds.I know I've got you spinning when you're referencing Tim's PPG. You of all people, an advanced metrics guy, resorting to raw stats because you just can't stop spinning. Duncan had the 12th best floor impact of all starters last season. He was, by all accounts, a star level player and an ELITE defender. Just like Ortiz is an ELITE hitter.
Extrapolated from a sample size of 8 minutes. LMAO at the GK (de Gea) even being tracked for speed.This skinny fat beanpole's top recorded speed is 15.9 mph:
Slower than Ortiz.
There is a reason why the guy is an end of the bench scrub & not world-class.So since he doesn't have any speed nor strength, what athletic traits does this guy possess? By all accounts, he seems to be a FAR BELOW AVERAGE athlete. At least Ortiz excels in strength. This guy excels in nothing.
Here is where I tell you a bench warmer is supposed to be a scrub.Here's where Kawhitstorm tells me making it to the Premier League isn't world class, especially considering the billion deep talent pool.
A 180lb soccer player being stronger than a 260lb 6'3" baseball playerDumbass, Original Ronaldo was strong & skilled when he was past his prime.
Quit in' deflecting you stupid piece of . Is strength an important athletic trait or not? Does David Ortiz have ELITE strength by professional athlete standards or not?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/24/sp...ke-an-mvp.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...on-with-al-mvp
I'm talking about BBWA certified writers. Not bloggers (the writer of the NYTimes piece blogs about such subjects as the Gabor Sisters and Ducks
Tim was an elite defender. +5.43 DRPM, and none of your dumb spinning will change that fact.
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