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Yah, I couldn't argue against that. Gervin was a scoring machine. I tend to weigh les heavily, probably to a fault.
Manu is easily third.
Yah, I couldn't argue against that. Gervin was a scoring machine. I tend to weigh les heavily, probably to a fault.
Like I said, everyone gets outplayed in individual games. By your definition, Kawhi got outplayed by Rashard Lewis in 2014.Name me a point guard that has been outplayed by Mario "scrub" Chalmers in 3 postseason games?
Porker got outplayed in Gm 2/6/7, Chalmers wetting the bed when Danny/Neal are going off is irrelevant b/c he could have dropped 30 & it wouldn't have mattered.
Third best overall but not franchise. The difference is team rank includes usage (favors Parker) and didn't include Olympics (massively favors ginobilli)
If you were drafting on need for this team you (well not you, but a reasonable person) would take Parker over ginobili. If you were starting with a new team then gino is third.
Who is comparing "roles," idiot?Dumbass, you're comparing player who have TOTALLY different roles.
In any case, Stephen Jackson OUTPLAYED MVP Dirk in '07 meanwhile Porker couldn't outplay ROOKIE Devin Harris in '06.
If you go back to 2003 when they were BOTH starter on the same team, Jack had a higher value-over replacement than Porker who was rated as a replacement level player in the postseason.(Makes sense b/c Speedy outplayed him)
Porker had a team WORST -17 on/off number during the '03 postseason, meaning they were 17 points worse w/ him on the floor.
I'm giving statistical proof that shows that Parker is more efficient, is better at taking care of the ball and is less "selfish." Jackson in his prime was a high usage, inefficient, ball stopping, head case that was unceremoniously ousted from every team he played on. He was way more selfish and "about himself" (left a championship team for more money) than Tony ever was, yet idiots are going to use his useless quotes/hot takes to on Parker.
The epitome of hypocrisy, TBH. Tony might be a ty person (probably is) or whatever, but i don't see how that completely matters since no one has ever said that he's an asshole on the court. Except this hypocrite (that I like as a player) that needs to keep himself relevant. Even Brent Barry, who would have all the reason in the world to crap on Parker the basketball player, who took swipes at both Manu and Bruce Bowen when he originally left the team and went to Houston hasn't to my knowledge taken swipes (about his on-court play).
Just Jackson and the band of re s on here that imagine everyone on the roster "hates" Tony. The infatuation with him on here is unreal. I imagine there is some other underlying reason for all the hatred.......
The 5 greatest Spurs ranking goes......
1.Duncan
2. Robinson.
3. Gervin
4. Tony ( better career numbers than Manu)
5. Manu
After Timmy and David it is a bit of a toss up (or Manu, Tony & George are interchangeable), but George gets the nod (IMO) for carrying the team in the early years and being the original "franchise" player. No George Gervin then no modern Spurs in SA......
Last edited by J_Paco; 08-13-2016 at 10:08 AM.
Just lol at Enrique fans resorting to comparing his stats to Jackson's. As if that's supposed to prove that Rique isn't a selfish piece of . Why don't y'all compare his stats to Barry too? That'll prove that Barry, and not yalls beloved Enrique, was the asshole in that whole fiasco!!
you guys and your little player fan shticks have taken over the role of lamest feud in ST history from sbm/xmas1997 and chump/blake
Not a "Tony Parker fan," numb nuts. Just an actually Spurs fan that sees bull and calls it.
My point in comparing career statistics is that they prove Jackson was never a "team player." He was always a "me first," ball stopper that was highly, highly inefficient and turnover prone. You know, all the bul y'all say Tony is/was while Jackson's hypcorite ass actually is.
Or didn't him wanting more minutes than Manu, Danny and Kawhi while being far worse than all three and being a big distraction in the locker room - so much so that Pop waived him on the last week of the playoffs and he couldn't be signed by any other PO teams - show your dumbass that? Yes, that is the guy who can speak to other player's character on-court.
Manu was a two-way player; Parker wasn't. Manu made his teammates better; Parker didn't. Manu sacrificed; Tony didn't.
1. Duncan
2. Manu
3. D-Rob
4. Kawhi
5. Bowen
6. Parker
7. Gervin
Parker will have better career statistics, more all-star appearances and a Finals MVP to his resume. Manu is the better player based on sentimenality and "advanced statistics," but Tony has him beat in nearly every raw statistical category. You are truly grasping for straws if you think Manu made anyone better. It was Tim Duncan's immense presence and Pop's system that made players "better" not Manu or Tony.
Like I said, they were both equally as important and great. The argument can easily be made why either one was better than the other. That doesn't matter in the long run because both are HOF bound and are champions, except in the minds of "fans" that like to have measuring contests.
Manu over DRob?
Bowen over Parker & Gervin?
Manu had more impact, imo. I don't have a problem with anyone having D-Rob higher though. To me, they were both top 5 players at their peaks.
Bowen dominated at the defensive end of the court. Parker had some good offensive years; but Bowen it could be argued is the best perimeter defender in NBA history. Parker ringed consistently whereas Gervin was stat stuffing.
Manu was left off of plenty of all-star teams he deserved to be on when he was sacrificing minutes. It's not like today where the analysis is more comprehensive. There were superficial benchmarks to be hit. Manu make players better b/c they know he'll reward the effort. Tony is an ISO player. And if you need any concrete evidence on who was more impactful, you need look no further than the 03 and 05 Finals. Manu was head and shoulders better than Parker.
"Jackson is the ultimate teammate." -Timothy Theodore Duncan
Ill take his word over your 'analysis', Rique fan.
Youre a complete moron if you don't think Manus elite playmaking/vision coupled with his unselfishness Nd willingness to almost always make the right basketball play helped him make teammates better.
That's the same dude who said he was better than green and ed up the team during his last year with the Spurs ?
If you saw James Silas play you most likely would say he was better than Parker. Alvin Robertson was far and away the best defensive PG we ever had, but is always overlooked in these discussions because of his legal troubles.
The same dude that Timothy Theodore Duncan called the ultimate teammates.
Its hilarious how SJax was one of the most beloved Spurs and everyone has turned against him bc he put their hero Enrique.
No, just no. Being a great passer and teammate doesn't automatically help you make teammates better. Like I said, Duncan and Popovich's system made role players/journeymen better not Ginobili or Parker. This isn't his national team, the team was never built around his strengths and only bonafide fanboy would make such a silly claim.
Sure, let one person's opinion get in the way of facts and actual statistics. Makes sense that you side with Jackson and ride with his "opinion."
Sure, because you know so much about my following of the Spurs and the players to say who I like and don't like.
Really repping Tony hard with my Tim Duncan avatar and Kawhi Leonard signature.....
No, he was once beloved but turned his back on the team in '13 by complaining about playing time, being a distraction and claiming he was better than at least two of Manu, Danny or Kawhi.The same dude that Timothy Theodore Duncan called the ultimate teammates.
Its hilarious how SJax was one of the most beloved Spurs and everyone has turned against him bc he put their hero Enrique.
He has also ted on Manu and Tony after his ouster here and mocked the team after losing the Finals to the Heat. He lost a lot good will after how things ended and being a role player on one championship team won't change that.
Not much different than his behavior in Milwaukee, Golden State, New Jersey, Charlotte, etc.
Green, Parker and Ginobili went through a lot more of the "wars" than SJax, so they deserve a lot more of the benefit of the doubt.
Can't wait until he starts speaking sideways about another former teammate and see your reaction.
Going by your logic we also need to take Jax seriously when he said in an interview with Bill Simmons that Duncan was not better than Kobe but on the same level. To me that was a pretty asinine comment by Jax to say. Also way to go by taking a statement that Duncan said way back in '03 when the Spurs were championship bound and Jax was on his best behavior. I doubt he feels like that today about Jax after what happened in '13.The same dude that Timothy Theodore Duncan called the ultimate teammates.
Its hilarious how SJax was one of the most beloved Spurs and everyone has turned against him bc he put their hero Enrique.
Tony has a higher career APG and assist percentage, so that refutes your idea that "Tony doesn't pass." Manu is a creative passer, has better timing (most times although you knew that ill adviced one was coming) and such but that doesn't mean Tony was a black hole. That is only a narrative on these boards.
Manu was 25 and 27 in comparison to Tony who was just 20 and 22. Manu was in his physical and near mental prime during the early le runs, but we'll ignore that to go with your narrative.
And I'm pretty sure that Tony outplayed Manu in the '03 Finals, but I'm too lazy to look up the statistics.
Where were Duncan and Pop system when he led Argentina to an historical gold medal? oh wait, they were on one of the teams he beat. When he was an Euroleague champ and MVP? Watching from TV. He always has been a leader, and made his teammates better, and he did it by being humble, not making it about himself, which is absolutely the ultimate compliment. That Argentina team will always be lauded by their teamwork, it was never "built around his strengths", another terrible cop-out. Quoting Kobe on this:"He took on a huge responsibility, and elevated everything there".
Heck, even off the bench with the Spurs, he made absolutely flawed players look good (too long a list: Oberto, RMJ, Blair, Ayres, Neal, Beli, Bonner, Thiago, Patty to an extent...) and he didn't do it going heroball, but actually getting everybody involved and making them feel important. That's the epitome of making teammates better. A lot of those guys left the Spurs and never been anywhere near the same.
He's too old now to be the kind of guy that commands the attention he used to. But he didn't used to use that attention to shower himself with stats, but to actually win, no matter who ended up putting the ball in the basket.
EDIT: This has nothing to do with Tony, who I think also made some of his teammates better. Obviously, he has played with Timmy a lot more minutes, so it's difficult to really appreciate. If anything the argument that it was Tim, not Manu/Tony that made players better, probably affects Tony way more than Manu (not because it's necessarily true, but because he shared a lot more starters minutes with Tim).
See unlike SJax, Tim is a loyal guy and I don't think he would change his opinion about a former teammate (that he really liked) even today. Probably wouldn't take him over the guys he sweat, cried and bleed with the most (D-Rob, Manu, Tony and Bruce) but after them he's probably still high on the list.
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