Damn, Stephen Jackson just aired out Porker's dirty laundry on THTV

[Joseph Kony]

You Kiwi s are dense, man. This is the same exact opinion that Charles Barkley holds and has said for the last 15+ years on television.

Of course all players have an effect on the game, but it is a turn of phrase used to assess something that elite do. The very best players not the Scottie Pippen, Manu Ginobili and James Worthy type of HOF'ers.

Not commenting on your actual stance here just pointing out that this is a terrible point to make

[Kawhitstorm]

4. Tony ( better career numbers than Manu)
5. Manu

Dumbass, having better RAW number doesn't mean shyt otherwise you can argue Jason Terry is better than Jason Kidd: http://bkref.com/tiny/RH12T

Manu has a HIGHER postseason win-share than Porker despite Porker playing almost 2K LESS minutes: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...s_advanced::21

Manu is only 5 REGULAR season win-shares behind Porker despite playing 10K LESS minutes: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...=#advanced::21

Manu has BETTER per 36 numbers too: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...r_minute::none

Basically, Manu blows Porker away in EVERY advanced metric including true-shooting percentage (Porker's claim to fame is shooting 50% on high percentage shots:) so unless you're living in the 1980s Manu is the superior.

[Play Boban]

Leave it to Tony creepers to turn this into a Manu thread.

[Kawhitstorm]

Going by your logic we also need to take Jax seriously when he said in an interview with Bill Simmons that Duncan was not better than Kobe but on the same level.

That's a SUBJECTIVE opinion; airing out dirty laundry is just reporting.

[J_Paco]

Not commenting on your actual stance here just pointing out that this is a terrible point to make

Hey, he is a HOF'er and has a lot more credibility than anyone on this board. Not saying that the opinion or argument doesn't have flaws, but that only the truly historically great players can "make players better" like Timmy, Michael, Ervin, Larry and LeBron.

Not second fiddle guys that played great because a lot less pressure was on them. No one really blames Manu for all the games he lost (IMHO), but Timmy has definitely felt the burden of losing in '01, '02, '04, 06 and '13.. He was the catalyst for all the winning and greatness throughout that time period not anyone else.

Doesn't mean that Ginobili was irrelevant, but that he never, ever effected the outcome of a game or elevated the play of his teammates like Tim Duncan (IMHO). Basically, he never elevated his teammates play with his sheet presence and all around greatness.

Duncan did that 5 times last time checked.......

[J_Paco]

You do know you moved the pole right? You first talked about Manu not making players better then switched to " o well he doesn't do it better than Duncan". like that's when you lost. Stop dude.

So there aren't different levels when it comes to making teammates better? Either you make them better at the exact same clip as someone who's elite, like Timmy, or you don't make them better at all?

WTF does that have to with comparing Rique's impact to Manu's? Why even bring it up if that's what you're referring to? If you want to say neither is on the level of the great Timothy Duncan, then that's fine. That doesn't by any means make Manu's impact negligible. It also doesn't mean that Manu's impact was at the same level as Enrique's--the eyeball test and the metrics show him with a considerable edge.

Dribble... dribble... dribble... A few bailout baskets by teammates don't make him a better passer/play maker.

Three imbeciles whose opinions I value least.

1. Never "moved the goals posts." My opinion is that Duncan, who is an all-time top 5 great, made every player around him much better than they were. The players also benefited from a coach that was willing to make changes when needed and was never worried about player's egos.

In the long run though, Duncan was the catalyst and his mere presence made things easy for everyone else. Which in turn made it easier for lesser players to play at their very best. Not Ginobili, Manu or Robinson.....

2. Yep, the offense and defense were definitely geared toward Manu and his strengths......

He sure did win all those Finals MVP's, league MVP's, all-star appearances and All-NBA accolades throughout his career. He sure carried the Spurs for 15 years with his great two-way and elite level play.


3. Neither player's "impact" is really worth arguing since they are both a by product of Timmy and his greatness. Tony has his good/great moments and so did Manu, but wouldn't have happened without Timmy being an absolute beast. He carried them and the team through the good and bad moments. He was the catalyst and made everyone around him much, much better players. Not Ginobili, not Parker, not Robinson or anyone.....

FWIW, I did argue about making actual players on the court much better, gave examples too, but you completely skipped over the point with zero counter arguments to that. I have to assume you really think turning a bunch of league nobodies into the best bench in the NBA year-in and year-out it's all Pop's system or Duncan influence's gazing from the bench.

I clearly stated that those players (Bonner, Splitter, Mason Jr., Blair, etc.) played well (if not better) in the starting line up with Duncan and Parker. The difference wasn't ing Manu Ginobili, but that Pop was able to hide their wealnesses. Many of them were exposed once the playoffs came (including Belinelli) and they had to give more in output. Or do you really want to argue that these level of players had a long shelf or Manu could carry them to great heights alone.

LMAO

I let you idiots get back to your regularly scheduled stupidity. "Porker sucks and needs to die!"

"Kawhi is the greatest SF ever and better than LeBron, Scottie and Larry."

"Manu is the best. He never ed up in his career, is way better than Porker and he is as important as TOSB Duncan."

" Pop, he don't give the ball to Kawhi and Manu enough. Too much Porker, Softridge and TOSB Duncan, man."

"Duh......."

Did I miss anything?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

And to my main point before this thread was derailed by the Manu apologists, Parker maybe a ty person but Stephen Jackson should never be the voice for your argument. He was more selfish, arrogant and mediocre throughout his carrer than Tony ever was.

He burned bridges, on former teammates (Manu, Tony and Metta) and was eventually a cancer in every city he played in.

I loved him in his short time in San Antonio, yet that doesn't change anything about him as a player.

[Sean Cagney]

Going by your logic we also need to take Jax seriously when he said in an interview with Bill Simmons that Duncan was not better than Kobe but on the same level. To me that was a pretty asinine comment by Jax to say. Also way to go by taking a statement that Duncan said way back in '03 when the Spurs were championship bound and Jax was on his best behavior. I doubt he feels like that today about Jax after what happened in '13.

I actually think they are still friends today if I am correct? They talk, I know that much.

[John Petrucci]

Manu has BETTER per 36 numbers too: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...r_minute::none

Funny those per 36 numbers kinda debunk the myth of who the more willing passer was throughout their careers. Obviously we knew Parker was a more efficient passer, so the AST isn't too surprising. 1.2 assists ahead of Manu with and still less turnovers. Impressive

[Snaq O'Meal]

Dumbass, having better RAW number doesn't mean shyt otherwise you can argue Jason Terry is better than Jason Kidd: http://bkref.com/tiny/RH12T

Manu has a HIGHER postseason win-share than Porker despite Porker playing almost 2K LESS minutes: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...s_advanced::21

Manu is only 5 REGULAR season win-shares behind Porker despite playing 10K LESS minutes: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...=#advanced::21

Manu has BETTER per 36 numbers too: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...r_minute::none

Basically, Manu blows Porker away in EVERY advanced metric including true-shooting percentage (Porker's claim to fame is shooting 50% on high percentage shots:) so unless you're living in the 1980s Manu is the superior.

Those BPM numbers... yikes!!

[Brazil]

The same dude that Timothy Theodore Duncan called the ultimate teammates.

Its hilarious how SJax was one of the most beloved Spurs and everyone has turned against him bc he put their hero Enrique.

yeah he said that it was in 2003. Since then Jax who call Parker a hero baller spent rest of his career being a loser hero balling worst than Kobe, signed a deal with the Spurs, said he was better than Manu and Green and put the mess in the team with Pop being obliged to kick his ass out.... One of the most beloved Spurs... hilarious... if you are a team fan you say him for what he has done during his last tenure with the Spurs

but you are familiar to suck any who say something bad about Parker... not that surprising

[SASdynasty!]

Funny those per 36 numbers kinda debunk the myth of who the more willing passer was throughout their careers. Obviously we knew Parker was a more efficient passer, so the AST isn't too surprising. 1.2 assists ahead of Manu with and still less turnovers. Impressive

Exactly...even on a per-minute basis Parker was a better passer than Manu, especially in the playoffs.

Casual fans still conflating the flashy, turnover-prone passing of Manu to the efficient, scoring passing of Parker. Smh.

[Play Boban]

Funny those per 36 numbers kinda debunk the myth of who the more willing passer was throughout their careers. Obviously we knew Parker was a more efficient passer, so the AST isn't too surprising. 1.2 assists ahead of Manu with and still less turnovers. Impressive

Parker is a point guard. Of course he has more assists given that he has the ball in his hands more.

[Joseph Kony]

Enrique aside, its weird how this forum romanticizes the history of Stephen Jackson on the Spurs dude had a good year in our 2003 le run and immediately dipped because of his ego, spent years doing jack , came back for a season and did solid in the postseason (although no one points out he was essentially invisible after the first half in Game 6) and the next year he was ing and moaning and Pop kicked his ass out. he's essentially a more successful Gary Neal spurs-wise yet people act like he's some legendary Spur

Enrique is a selfish fatass and ty teammate and Stephen Jackson is a butthurt got trying to stay relevant. IMO

[Brazil]

Parker generally seems unlikable, based on most of the we have heard about him, but in this case, the messenger is a clown, tbh..

Stephen Jackson has been extremely desperate for attention the past few years..he went from firing shots at ESPN to begging them for a job..not only is he one of the most overrated players on this forum, but he's an attention-starving liar, too..his argument, in this case, doesn't even make sense, as his "facts" don't add up..

Strangely enough (not) nobody sucked Jax saying he is telling the truth when he said Kobe was as good as Duncan if not better. His hero ball talk is hilarious knowing he has been during prime years one of most inefficient hero ballers of the league, same goes with the ego talk... only Spurs player who because of his ego could not go along with the team and pop.

I agree Jax is a freaking clown

[Brazil]

and the Manu / Parker never ending ping pong is getting tiresome even for ST standard tbh...

[From Downtown]

Exactly...even on a per-minute basis Parker was a better passer than Manu, especially in the playoffs.

Casual fans still conflating the flashy, turnover-prone passing of Manu to the efficient, scoring passing of Parker. Smh.

He's a PG?
Manu has better vision, he's more flashy and is a great floor general, the only downside to his passing game is that he attempts a pass even when there's a 1% chance it's not gonna be a turnover (and that's how his amazing passes happen)
Parker plays more within the system, his p'n'r with Timmy used to be great as well as his drive-and-kick game, and that's not a knock on him in any way, he clearly was the best fit for the Spurs starting unit, he's been our starting PG since 2001 for a reason

[Kawhitstorm]

yeah he said that it was in 2003. Since then Jax who call Parker a hero baller spent rest of his career being a loser hero balling worst than Kobe, signed a deal with the Spurs, said he was better than Manu and Green and put the mess in the team with Pop being obliged to kick his ass out.... One of the most beloved Spurs... hilarious... if you are a team fan you say him for what he has done during his last tenure with the Spurs

Tim wouldn't have beaten the Phil Jackson's Shaq/Kirby Lakers without Jack as proven in 2001, 2002, 2004.

[Kawhitstorm]

Funny those per 36 numbers kinda debunk the myth of who the more willing passer was throughout their careers. Obviously we knew Parker was a more efficient passer, so the AST isn't too surprising. 1.2 assists ahead of Manu with and still less turnovers. Impressive

Dumbass, Manu was asked to SCORE with the 2nd unit b/c he didn't have Tim on the floor.

Porker got 50% of his CAREER assists playing PnR w/ Tim.

[Brazil]

Porker got 50% of his CAREER assists playing PnR w/ Tim.

is that a bad thing tbh ? feeding as a top 5 all time great as much as possible ?

[Kawhitstorm]

is that a bad thing tbh ? feeding as a top 5 all time great as much as possible ?

Avery Johnson had a better assist-per-game average than Porker feeding Admrial.

[Phenomanul]

is that a bad thing tbh ? feeding as a top 5 all time great as much as possible ?

No... it's not a bad thing.... it does show where the alleged difference in "willingness to pass" stems from. It's all about context.

[keeferob25]

Dumbass, Manu was asked to SCORE with the 2nd unit b/c he didn't have Tim on the floor.

Porker got 50% of his CAREER assists playing PnR w/ Tim.

You're being far too generous to parker lol. That er's sorry vision didn't extend one millimeter beyond Duncan lol. People ing about Duncan still having had too many useless ill-advised possessions the last 3 years had no one to blame but Parker keeping up with pure habit and unable to adjust until slightly this past year.

[Brazil]

Avery Johnson had a better assist-per-game average than Porker feeding Admrial.

what's AJ and DR have to do with that discussion ? Avery Johnson > Tony Parker ?

[Brazil]

You're being far too generous to parker lol. That er's sorry vision didn't extend one millimeter beyond Duncan lol. People ing about Duncan still having had too many useless ill-advised possessions the last 3 years had no one to blame but Parker keeping up with pure habit and unable to adjust until slightly this past year.

oh a new troll account... cute

[keeferob25]

oh a new troll account... cute

ouch...my feelings