Good article detailing Danny's shooting woes but predicting bounce back this season.

[YGWHI]

He wants to give Fathead and Porker more on ball "dutties".

Well, I've said I'd like to see a bit more of Kyle as point-foward with the 2nd unit...But what will be Manu's role in that scenario?

About Parker...He has been a Net negative player in the last two playoffs, why the team should give him more on ball dutties, when his P&Rs become ineffective in playoffs?

[dabom]

Well, I've said I'd like to see a bit more of Kyle as point-foward with the 2nd unit...But what will be Manu's role in that scenario?

About Parker...He has been a Net negative player in the last two playoffs, why the team should give him more on ball dutties, when his P&Rs become ineffective in playoffs?

Manu given all the he gets, he is still a net positive player in the long run. And we go as far as he can push the second unit. Patty Mills is the only exception. Fathead just isn't a playmaker in the NBA. I've been saying he was a bad player since last year, way before the playoffs. I continue to be correct on that guy. He isn't gonna amount to anything for the future of the Spurs. Probably traded for something.

And Parker really just needs to be fazed out. He really doesn't compliment Kawhi or LMA.

Driving it in and kicking it out for LMA isn't even special. Once LMA started missing, Tony couldn't actually drive it in.

We need ab athletic defensive PG who can shoot threes with marginal passing. That's the bare minimum for a PG for the Spurs to succeed.

[YGWHI]

And Parker really just needs to be fazed out. He really doesn't compliment Kawhi or LMA.

Although I'm not a fan of relying on Parker, I can see a lot of P&Rs between Parker and Gasol this new season.

Parker-Gasol makes more sense than Parker-LMA as duo, but Parker-Kawhi are definitely not compatible on the court.

Driving it in and kicking it out for LMA isn't even special. Once LMA started missing, Tony couldn't actually drive it in.

Sadly, we saw that in the last games of OKC series.

[YGWHI]

There isn't a science behind Danny being a streaky shooter.

He just needs one game to get hot or... the whole season.

People can talk about different passing angles, post-up passes instead of P&Rs passes, the chemistry with new teammates...

But other Spurs players faced the same issues with the passing/new teammates being the focal points of the offense and they still increased their 3P% in the season.

In fact, Danny had the supposed passing/chemistry issues in playoffs but he shot over .50 3P%...

Anyway, he can't shoot worse than last year so I'm very optimistic about his shooting in the new season. A streaky shooter? Sure. But when his shot is on, it's deadly, the Spurs, too.

[SAGirl]

There isn't a science behind Danny being a streaky shooter.

He just needs one game to get hot or... the whole season.

People can talk about different passing angles, post-up passes instead of P&Rs passes, the chemistry with new teammates...

But other Spurs players faced the same issues with the passing/new teammates being the focal points of the offense and they still increased their 3P% in the season.

In fact, Danny had the supposed passing/chemistry issues in playoffs but he shot over .50 3P%...

Anyway, he can't shoot worse than last year so I'm very optimistic about his shooting in the new season. A streaky shooter? Sure. But when his shot is on, it's deadly, the Spurs, too.

Danny has had his streakiness forever but he shot 33% for an entire season. Something caused a problem and it ballooned to his confidence etc. If it was his eyesight I could believe it, that's how dramatic a 10% difference is for an entire season.

[skulls138]

Don't get this. Kawhi should go back to being more of a 3-point shooter to get everyone involved...that means Kawhi would have the ball less in his hands and he would spot-up more.

But he isn't Danny or Marco, he isn't a true three-point shooter, it's pretty obvious he won't maintain his 3FG% of last season.

So this team will spot-up more a non-true-shooter and they will take the ball out of the team leading scorer's hands...This doesn't sound good, there many reasons why the teams give the ball to their best players and main scorers.

I just hope Pop continues involving him in more P&R situations or even isos plays, instead of looking him parking in the corner again, because the only way Kawhi can help the Spurs' offense is staying aggressive, looking to attack and score.

Im not talking complete revamping of the progress hes made, Im talking more or less emphasis on the different aspects of his game. Im thinking of ways to get more involved, especially Green, and to find ways Leonard can save on energy too. If he shoots more threes he can keep the same amount of points and expend less energy, because he expends a ton the way he plays, in addition to the D and rebounding. I also mentioned that he should emphasize his back to the basket game over his face up game too, not just be a Reggie Miller or something.

[SAGirl]

Im not talking complete revamping of the progress hes made, Im talking more or less emphasis on the different aspects of his game. Im thinking of ways to get more involved, especially Green, and to find ways Leonard can save on energy too. If he shoots more threes he can keep the same amount of points and expend less energy, because he expends a ton the way he plays, in addition to the D and rebounding. I also mentioned that he should emphasize his back to the basket game over his face up game too, not just be a Reggie Miller or something.

It's a good point and it's a balance. I think the main problem lies in an aging backcourt that can't be relied on to close games. Kawhi will need to handle the ball more through the season I am guessing to get comfortable in that role and then maybe defer for parts of games in the postseason to take over in the 4th. I am sure there are ways that Pop can make it work.

[bklynspursfan]

Nah, that's closer to asking Green to run a PnR, which he already does more than people credit him for. Still isn't good at it, though.

First, it's nice to have a debate on here and not have it be agenda driven and filled with garbage, so thank you... I have to pay more attention, maybe I didn't notice him in PnR situations. I guess I really value guys being able to do multiple things, and with someone like Green who is so valuable defensively, it would be a shame for him to come out of games cause he looks out of place on offense. Not to mention he's one of our better FT shooters.

This comes up a couple of times a year. Where I think you and the others are wrong is that Green job is not to score. Literally, it's to be defended. Jordan is the same way. It's not hard to stop either if you commit your defense to taking away their strengths, but doing that for a player who's rarely higher than a third option and is sometimes as low as a fifth option is bad for your defense. That teams gameplan for Danny or put their best perimeter defender on him rather than Kawhi for some games is a testament to respect for his skill around the league. If he's sucking a man out of the defense, he's doing his job, because that's a man who won't double or show or rotate.

I think in today's NBA, versatility and guys who can do multiple things is key. GS prior to KD was like that and they could throw a variety of lineups out there. You don't necessarily need your best player on Green, just someone who will shadow him and chase him around screens, contest his shots, etc... If you give him little breathing room, I think he should be able to dribble around a screen and pull up off the dribble... Actually as I type this, maybe that is something that could help him even more, is to be able to take a few dribbles left/right around a screen and pull up. He doesn't do it often enough, and is a great catch and shoot shooter. But if a guy closes out on him, maybe he could take 2-3 dribbles to free up some space for himself. Obviously not out there dribbling like Kyrie Irving, but just a few dribbles to the side, or even around a screen I think could make him much more of a threat. Having a lot of threats on a team is certainly a good problem to have.

Take a look at his numbers, nearly 72% of his FG attempts came with him not dribbling at all, and 83% with 1 dribble or less.

With Jordan, he could be neutralized if the defense just left Paul open or didn't contest shots at the rim. He would only score once or twice a game. But obviously, that'd never happen. With Danny, you don't ignore the PnR (ideally) or neglect to double just so you can remove Green's dimension. You're going to have to rotate down, and then he's going to burn you (at least previously). Green being a driver would make it much harder to shut him down, but him using more possessions on long-twos or average shots at the rim doesn't make sense when the option is always there to just pass the ball out to reset. If the shot clock is winding down, he can just shoot the contested three. Over his career, he isn't too bad in those situations anyway.

Agreed, he is decent late in the shot clock. I just think having multiple playmakers will help this team against some of these defensive teams who throw versatile/athletic lineups at us. If there is any way we can make them work a little harder and not be as predictable, then that's a positive thing. It's not something we want to make a regular thing with Green, but maybe a couple times a game if the offense is stagnant and he catches his defender just defending him for the shot, that's where I'd like to see him make something happen either on a pull-up off the dribble, or maybe even getting an open look for his teammates.

[Chinook]

First, it's nice to have a debate on here and not have it be agenda driven and filled with garbage, so thank you... I have to pay more attention, maybe I didn't notice him in PnR situations. I guess I really value guys being able to do multiple things, and with someone like Green who is so valuable defensively, it would be a shame for him to come out of games cause he looks out of place on offense. Not to mention he's one of our better FT shooters.

And it's nice not having to deal with a ton of s and s

Green runs the PnP much more than the PnR, because I guess the pass-back is easier. The issue has often been that he's passed because he's stopped rather than because he's forced the defense to leave his man open. So his passes have often resulted in poor or aborted attempts. With Gasol and LMA supposedly starting, it should be easier for him to hit guys in places they can score. But he's really predictable in his passes (likes to jump and spin in the air to pass back). And that makes it a very risky result by him.

I think in today's NBA, versatility and guys who can do multiple things is key. GS prior to KD was like that and they could throw a variety of lineups out there. You don't necessarily need your best player on Green, just someone who will shadow him and chase him around screens, contest his shots, etc... If you give him little breathing room, I think he should be able to dribble around a screen and pull up off the dribble... Actually as I type this, maybe that is something that could help him even more, is to be able to take a few dribbles left/right around a screen and pull up. He doesn't do it often enough, and is a great catch and shoot shooter. But if a guy closes out on him, maybe he could take 2-3 dribbles to free up some space for himself. Obviously not out there dribbling like Kyrie Irving, but just a few dribbles to the side, or even around a screen I think could make him much more of a threat. Having a lot of threats on a team is certainly a good problem to have.

This goes back to what I was saying earlier. It would be GREAT for him -- especially individually -- for him to be able to score better off the dribble. Like, a consistent game inside the arc would probably put him in the top three or four shooting-guards in the league. If he could magically get that ability, I'd be very happy. The issue is that I don't think anyone wants Green using up not only the possessions where he would shoot a three (about seven per-36) and then add more possessions where he is creating for himself rather than letting the offense find a better shot. He'd have to be better than at least Parker at that for it to be worthwhile, and I don't consider that realistic.

Agreed, he is decent late in the shot clock. I just think having multiple playmakers will help this team against some of these defensive teams who throw versatile/athletic lineups at us. If there is any way we can make them work a little harder and not be as predictable, then that's a positive thing. It's not something we want to make a regular thing with Green, but maybe a couple times a game if the offense is stagnant and he catches his defender just defending him for the shot, that's where I'd like to see him make something happen either on a pull-up off the dribble, or maybe even getting an open look for his teammates.

What would really help both him and the team is if he moved more without the ball, specifically in two ways. First, if he could shoot off screens, that'd be huge for the entact offense's diversity and for Green's ability to shoulder a bigger load when Kawhi is out. It's one of those things he doesn't do often and isn't great at. But I don't see why it can't improve. Second, he needs to cut to the rim more. His first year starting, the Spurs opened up damned near every game by running a Green back-door play. Bringing those back (and alley-oops) would make it even harder for his man to play off him.

If the Spurs committed to making Green a set part of the offense rather than just a contingency, he'd probably average 12-15ppg (though on worse efficiency than usual). But that's not the plan, it seems. And with Kawhi, LMA and Gasol that makes sense. Plus, Danny would have to show he could handle the load and not just fade like he has for the past four years when Pop has him start the season with a new technique.

[T Park]

There's a lot wrong with this article tbh. Good effort, but I don't agree that this is a good article.

Green didn't get a lot more wide open opportunities. Sure he had higher percentage of them, but his volume went down immensely. In 14-15, in 81 games, Green was able to get off 457 attempts. Last year, in 79 games, he was able to get off 349 attempts. The opportunities were significantly lower, and a BIG reason why is because of the lack of an effective roller in the PNR that used to create so many looks for the weakside in rhythm three. I've talked about this ad nauseam and none of the people who write about the Spurs on twitter have brought it up. I've probably brought it up in 5 different threads over the summer.

Also, he's wrong when he says Gasol's pick and pop will create more looks for Green from three. Just look how David Wests' pick and pop action last year hurt the effective ball movement when the ball was forcefully swung to the weakside for contested/guarded 3's.

Yeah but there's a difference between guarding David West, and guarding Pau Gasol. Significant enough to where the looks change.

[T Park]

Well, I've said I'd like to see a bit more of Kyle as point-foward with the 2nd unit...But what will be Manu's role in that scenario?

About Parker...He has been a Net negative player in the last two playoffs, why the team should give him more on ball dutties, when his P&Rs become ineffective in playoffs?

With Manu playing this summer and erroring on the side of caution, i'd wager many doesn't get consistent decent minutes till January

[MaNu4Tres]

Yeah but there's a difference between guarding David West, and guarding Pau Gasol. Significant enough to where the looks change.

No I disagree. There's not a big difference between Gasol shooting a long two and West shooting the long two ( we are talking about that action exclusively) . No matter who it is, David or Pau, the defense would rather be late contesting that shot with the strong side defenders involved in the PnPop instead of having the weakside defenders run off Danny or Patty.

[dabom]

No I disagree. There's not a big difference between Gasol shooting a long two and West shooting the long two ( we are talking about that action exclusively) . No matter who it is, David or Pau, the defense would rather be late contesting that shot with the strong side defenders involved in the PnPop instead of having the weakside defenders run off Danny or Patty.

Pau is a better playoff rebounder and defender near the rum than west.

[dabom]

But on offense he is less predictable than west whose only offensive game was pick and pop.

[MaNu4Tres]

Pau is a better playoff rebounder and defender near the rum than west.

That has nothing to do with the point I was addressing.

[bklynspursfan]

And it's nice not having to deal with a ton of s and s

Green runs the PnP much more than the PnR, because I guess the pass-back is easier. The issue has often been that he's passed because he's stopped rather than because he's forced the defense to leave his man open. So his passes have often resulted in poor or aborted attempts. With Gasol and LMA supposedly starting, it should be easier for him to hit guys in places they can score. But he's really predictable in his passes (likes to jump and spin in the air to pass back). And that makes it a very risky result by him.

Yea, you nailed the predictable pass he does. Hopefully it's something he gets more comfortable with. Leaving your feet without knowing what you want to do is a sure way to get yanked out the game... Just needs to get more confident.

This goes back to what I was saying earlier. It would be GREAT for him -- especially individually -- for him to be able to score better off the dribble. Like, a consistent game inside the arc would probably put him in the top three or four shooting-guards in the league. If he could magically get that ability, I'd be very happy. The issue is that I don't think anyone wants Green using up not only the possessions where he would shoot a three (about seven per-36) and then add more possessions where he is creating for himself rather than letting the offense find a better shot. He'd have to be better than at least Parker at that for it to be worthwhile, and I don't consider that realistic.

Fair enough.. He just looks so uncomfortable dribbling! lol... Guys have improved their handle, and it's just like, OK if you're going to force me to put it down, I'll make you pay.

What would really help both him and the team is if he moved more without the ball, specifically in two ways. First, if he could shoot off screens, that'd be huge for the entact offense's diversity and for Green's ability to shoulder a bigger load when Kawhi is out. It's one of those things he doesn't do often and isn't great at. But I don't see why it can't improve. Second, he needs to cut to the rim more. His first year starting, the Spurs opened up damned near every game by running a Green back-door play. Bringing those back (and alley-oops) would make it even harder for his man to play off him.

If the Spurs committed to making Green a set part of the offense rather than just a contingency, he'd probably average 12-15ppg (though on worse efficiency than usual). But that's not the plan, it seems. And with Kawhi, LMA and Gasol that makes sense. Plus, Danny would have to show he could handle the load and not just fade like he has for the past four years when Pop has him start the season with a new technique.

This could def be helpful and might be the most realistic. Guys like Reggie Miller, Rip Hamilton, JJ Red , etc... have all done this and it can be tiring to the defense. Patty Mills has a very quick release and does this pretty well in terms of guys on our team. I know Danny has a slower release, but it would def help the flow of the offense if he picked that up. Of all the discussed things, this might be the most realistic. He's already a good catch and shoot shooter, but if he could do it on the move, it would do nothing but help the team. Especially if a defender who is getting screened jumps out at him, he has the option to dump the ball back to the screener (likely a big) once he becomes respectable in that aspect.

[Chinook]

The cool thing about Mills is that the Spurs will actually run the other hammer play with him. As far as I know, he's the only Spur that gets that pass. Would be nice if Danny added that to his game.


Too bad there aren't any vids isolating it. I've only seen it in live action.

[bklynspursfan]

^ there might be on NBA.com/stats but you'd need to know a game in which they ran it for him. Good stuff

Something like this btw? (50 second mark)

[Chinook]

^ there might be on NBA.com/stats but you'd need to know a game in which they ran it for him. Good stuff

Something like this btw? (50 second mark)

Nah, that's just a zipper-cut. Good idea of looking for Mills highlights, though. That'd probably be the best place to find them. I'll look too.

So to clarify, on that diagram, the first action is a zipper-cut for the two-guard. But the hammer part is what the PF does for the PG. That type of surprise run-up-behind-you hit is a hammer screen, and that's what gives the set play-type its name.

[Dex]

If Spurs can get either Patty or Green to come back to their 2014 form next season....it will go a long ways.

If both can get back on track...look out Warriors. And I don't say that lightly.

[SAGirl]

If Spurs can get either Patty or Green to come back to their 2014 form next season....it will go a long ways.

If both can get back on track...look out Warriors. And I don't say that lightly.

Agreed. Actually the warriors figure to have a lot of defensive issues inside too. Obviously they are difficult to defend themselves, but will be vulnerable in the paint, giving up dribble penetration, mismatches, offensive boards. They could under-perform considering all the hype. I tend to think with them, they got better at what they were already great at, perimeter jumpshooting, at the cost of becoming significantly worse in areas that were already vulnerable for them (mostly due to Bogut being so injury-prone). There are the diminishing returns to having so many guys with similar strengths (offensive players, jumpshooters). There will be nights they are unstoppable guys caught fire, but they also will have nights they can't stop the heck out of anybody, their bigs will get in foul trouble, etc. If they under-perform we know why.

[Chinook]

If Spurs can get either Patty or Green to come back to their 2014 form next season....it will go a long ways.

If both can get back on track...look out Warriors. And I don't say that lightly.

I'll take the Danny of the following season:



Dude was a legit top-30 player in the league that year. btb, that was the most sickening loss I can remember the team having.

[G-Dawgg]

In other words, Danny Green let down Tim Duncan in his last season. By the time he gets his shot back it wont matter....

[Chinook]

In other words, Danny Green let down Tim Duncan in his last season. By the time he gets his shot back it wont matter....

Someone didn't watch last season at all...

[Dex]

I'll take the Danny of the following season:



Dude was a legit top-30 player in the league that year. btb, that was the most sickening loss I can remember the team having.

Oi...Don't remind me. That was one of a game...but a serious shame that the Spurs came up on the wrong side after all of that. It was really a microcosm of the whole season.