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The only "hood black" the Spurs have is maybe Jonathan Simmons..
at a team of uncle tom's kneeling during the anthem
Lame thread time until season starts. I'm curious on this. We have a diverse roster. Surely someone is down with BLM. Would Pop let them kneel? He's a military guy and the military has such a high respect for those things. But Pop is liberal and generally supports these kind of things vocally. I wonder where he stands on this. Surely he would never kneel, but is he ok with his players doing it? Especially Ina military city like San Antonio?
The only "hood black" the Spurs have is maybe Jonathan Simmons..
Pop invited Dr. John Carlos to come speak with the team last year. (http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/s...opovich-100515)
I think he's certainly not averse a person expressing his or her conscience during flag salutes.
I stopped pledging the allegiance around 8th grade. Never thought it was a big deal until this whole Kap situation.
Probably so, but I think he would remind his players of the importance of "team over individual" and the strong support and presence of the US Armed Forces. It's a good question and may still be a "thing" to do in a month or so, but if this ever starts to turn into a more violent black citizens vs white citizens issue by contrived influences, I think Pop would be outspoken against it.
IMHO the U.S. flag doesn't represent all of the evils in our nation. It is incorrect to suggest that premise or even imply it as Colin haphazardly did. The Nazi flag, yes - it represented oppression - it represented prejudice and Aryan superiority. The U.S. Flag however, represents freedoms and promotes a way of thinking in which EVERYONE is valued - the whole "rights endowed by our CREATOR" bit...
That historically speaking, ignorant bigoted people have opposed those GOD-given rights doesn't mean that our Cons ution is at fault... I'm all for holding any rogue police officers or public servants ACCOUNTABLE for their crimes. But wearing socks that depict police officers as pigs or blasting music that insults our authorities is not the answer. Making generalizations at large about public servants such as police officers won't put an end to their generalizations about minority groups. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I get Colin's concern... it is one shared by many people. But why challenge the flag? This is where I respectfully disagree with the BLM crowd, and it stems from a fundamental difference in perspective and an inherent misunderstanding of our system of government on their part.
"The flag is American and therefore represents all that is America" gets thrown around all willy nilly <--- and I simply don't agree with this statement at all. The flag can't possibly embody every free will choice its citizens make. America doesn't stand for murderers even though there are murders amongst its population, it doesn't stand for rapists, or pedophiles, or thieves, or arsonists etc... Yes, those evils exist in every corner of the world, including the grand ol' United States of America - but they predate our country by millennia. Just because we have the freedom and option to "do what is good" doesn't mean that the freedom "to do what is bad" is a state sanctioned ordeal. That history rightfully shames the actions of corrupt men who abused their power to do abominable deeds doesn't automatically mean that they were fundamentally tied to the framework upon which our Cons ution was built.
America (and symbolically speaking its ever evolving flag) represents the ideals of our Cons ution - the transcendental pact between the governed and those who are elected to do the governing - it represents a do ent which expounds the very virtues of equality as people. That the founding fathers failed to completely grasp the gravitas of our GOD given rights doesn't mean that the do ent itself is somehow flawed or at fault. For example, that very same do ent was used as the ultimate equalizer when it came to the abolition of slavery (by president Lincoln), and later by the women's suffrage movement (Susan B. Anthony used the very language of the Cons ution to frame her own arguments) - because it revealed the inherent flaws in believing that anyone was superior to his or her fellow man (regardless of age / sex / quality). The language of the Cons ution was ahead of its time and even ridiculous clauses such as the 3/5ths compromise were ultimately purged out when the original language of the Cons ution was allowed to prevail.
As for the flag flying in the name of atrocities... I don't see the logic in pinning that on the flag... Again, I believe in the concept of accountability and the men or women responsible for heinous acts should be held accountable for them - because those acts are exposed by the Cons ution itself. Remember it was a version of the American flag which also flew across the nation in the name of freedom as brother fought against brother in the struggle to bring an end to slavery. Likewise, it has flown across the world and triumphed in the struggle against tyranny. Some mention the lyrics of the National Anthem (which wasn't adopted until 1931 even though it was written in 1814) as being held in contempt for the hypocrisy of many who sing it. Again, to lambast the Anthem itself by disrespecting what it stands for simply because not everyone expounds its virtues is a misplaced attack... Coincidently, I had the opportunity of singing our National Anthem at a sporting event recently. It's difficult not to get choked up when thinking about what it represents. That's why Colin's recent actions have irked me the wrong way. That doesn't mean that I'm any less compassionate towards those that have been wronged unjustly by the authorities. Kaepernick actions somehow imply that those that do participate in the celebration of our flag or our country are complicit with the criminals who abused their place of authority to "get away with murder". It's therefore insulting to suggest that our patriotism somehow is coddling and protecting the injustices committed by rogue criminals.
To challenge the American flag hence, with civil protest because of some misplaced belief that it somehow represents the abuse of police power - illustrates a serious disconnect on the part of the protestors with our system of government. Police Departments are locally managed infrastructures - they aren't managed by the Federal Government (and hence the jurisdiction of the American flag). In other words, they need to protest their local and state authorities on a case by case basis. Protesting the U.S. flag is nonsensical.
Last edited by Phenomanul; 09-16-2016 at 10:19 AM.
I agree with this.
If you're a believer that the cons utional pact has not been fulfilled -- at least not for all -- and that some of the governed are (in some instances) actually being oppressed rather than realizing actual equality, it would seem absolutely appropriate to protest the very symbol that, as you say, represents that a promise of equality that has not been met.America (and symbolically speaking its ever evolving flag) represents the ideals of our Cons ution - the transcendental pact between the governed and those who are elected to do the governing - it represents a do ent which expounds the very virtues of equality as people.
You can dispute the underlying premise if you wish; I'm not here to say that it is or isn't true. But Kaepernick and many others certainly would dispute that all Americans are privy to the "equality as people" that the Cons ution strives to ensure.
As I've said before, Kaepernick's protest is not the route that I might have chosen to make a point, but it is quintessentially American precisely because it involves the flag. And because so many have gotten up in arms about it, Kaepernick has kept his protests in the news for much longer than he could have if the whole world just ignored what he was doing.
Last edited by FromWayDowntown; 09-16-2016 at 10:45 AM.
While I think there are legit gripes raised by BLM, I kind of feel like they are focusing on symptoms of the deeper problems and not a cure for the deeper problems. And the kneeling during the pledge, which I think is much better than just simply sitting, also fails to foster any conversation about the deeper problems, but instead turns into an us versus them debate on whether or not the kneelers disrespect the flag, military, etc. Just seems like it is raising controversy for controversy's sake and not really fixing the problems that lead to police targeting/profling the community. I'm curious to see Pop's take though not sure we'll hear it.
Pop won't tell them not to. I doubt that he would even discourage anyone from doing it.
My one and only complaint is that if a Spurs player decided to use his celebrity status (while wearing a Spurs jersey) to promote some other ideas, it would be detrimental to his career with the Spurs. If a player decided to make a Nazi salute during the Anthem, he would be gone. At the very least, the team would say that he has the right to express himself, but not while wearing a Spurs' jersey. So it's not all about the right to expression. If you even suggest that the team would tolerate some white supremacist symbol as "expression", you're either lying or a fool. And if the team is going to pick and choose, they should probably limit political commentary to an off-the-court activity. "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it... but when you say it wearing one of our jerseys, it looks like you're speaking for the team, and not just for yourself."
The NBA should say one of two things:
"Start a blog. Put it on your Facebook page. Do some media interviews. Spend some of your money to take out newspaper ads. Say whatever you want, but keep it off the court."
Or... "We welcome all courtside expressions in the NBA, even the ones we detest."
And everybody knows that the league isn't going to sanction the latter.
This isn't about the pledge of allegiance, this about the National Anthem. All this drama NEVER started with good intentions by a concerned African American athlete. This whole "kneeling" thing began as nothing more than a childish, petulant move to express disdain for the United States, the flag and what the flag "supposedly" represents. Only after he received backlash and negative commentary from those who serve in the military did he start his positive PR campaign. Now he's some sort of Blank Panther, Nat - X wannabe. The dude is an ignoramus.I stopped pledging the allegiance around 8th grade. Never thought it was a big deal until this whole Kap situation.
His reasoning began to expand from BLM / Law Enforcement issues to a bigger social question about equality. How noble! What a ing joke. Other gullible athletes are now joining him in what amounts to a middle finger at the flag.
Like it or not, this is our country, and there's much more to like. It's not perfect but I think the there is so much more to appreciate and love about living here than to just act out negatively. To his credit, his reps said he donated $1,000,000 somewhere. Who knows if that ever happened or ever will happen? Who follows up on that stuff?
Fifteen years ago David Robinson, a proud military veteran and world-class athlete, recognized the need to contribute to the betterment of his community. He helped establish the Carver Academy - a school that serves to educate "a socio-economically and culturally diverse student population, grades pre-kindergarten through sixth." According to its mission statement, the Carver Academy concentrates "not only on academic subjects but also on children’s social, emotional, physical and spiritual needs as well. The intention of the school is to develop a well-rounded child."
David Robinson used to stand at full attention during the anthem. This is how he pays homage to the same country that offered the freedom to pursue a lucrative career in sports. THAT'S HOW YOU ING DO IT.
Last edited by tmtcsc; 09-16-2016 at 01:54 PM.
Spurs don't like distractions. I mean pop started benching boban after he started getting "attention".
Kaepernick is doing the walk. He's donating money and giving his time. Method may not appeal to everyone but it sure did bring a lot of talk and action.
This is a free country last time I looked.
I can answer your question with a single word. NO!!!
Ever heard of biting the hand that feeds you? In SA that would be what a player kneeling would be doing. If it costs the Spurs money you can bet you bottom dollar that they will correct the player or trade him fast. That would include almost every player on the team. I dont think Simmons would do it because the Spurs have given him a career as a role/bench player who will soon qualify for pension from the NBA. Making a million a year is better than making a million every 20 years. None of the European players will refuse to stand for NA, they will not be held to the standard of an American player on the Spurs. They will only be asked to stand. There will be a classy team on the court for the Spurs or they won't be on the floor.
My old Drill Sgt used to say you have the right to express yourself. But don't be surprised if someone knocks the out you for your expression ������
The only "hood black" the Spurs have is maybe Jonathan Simmons..
An Uncle Tom would be doing what elitist Whites expect of them, in this case, kneeling during the anthem. Kap is a fashionable Uncle Tom and all of the followers aren't, but still Uncle Toms all the same.
no..
Pop is a liberal, sure, but the Spurs generally stay away from outspoken, anti-establishment Blacks, especially if they fit the flashy stereotype that applies to the majority of young NBA millionaires..I love Pop, but as a Black man, it's easy to see what type of people he surrounds himself with from a basketball standpoint(the type that won't cause distraction and bother the target demographic)..
It's especially dangerous in Texas, of course..look no further than the posters on SpursTalk
I'll never understand the pride that White Americans feel for a song and a flag, tbh..too much military fetishism, as well..it's embarrassing..
Last edited by HarlemHeat37; 09-16-2016 at 03:07 PM.
The outrage over this issue has been incomprehensible, too..all this anger over a 2nd-string QB on an irrelevant team that exercised his right to peacefully protest against a symbolic song
There needs to be a PR rep for the entire body of White coaches, btw
Black on Black crime
Oh, horse ... you ing understand it, because Canadians do the same ing thing. You just enjoy America-bashing and white-bashing. You're en led to your own opinions, but you're not en led to your own facts, you ing racist hypocrite.
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/08/24...orlds-ceremony
http://www.themanitoban.com/2014/10/...-anthem/21322/
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/ml...ange-1.3676477
It's only been a few months since Dwayne Wade caused a storm for shooting jumpers during O Canada.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...nada-1.3572578
Oh, and the fact that you don't understand doesn't mean . You see EVERYTHING through a ed up lens, so there's a lot you don't understand. I hate ing racists, and you're just as bad as the damned skinheads on the other end of the spectrum.
If I was American, I wouldnt stop at what Kapernick do..I'd burn that POS flag.
These freaking soldiers have been killing innocent people in Iraq and Afganistan. First on a fake war.. ing Bush.
America ia a terrorsit country..
If you were American, I'd forward your IP address to President Trump and he'd have you tracked down by NSA, incarcerated and waterboarded.
did not do his time before has only used the 49ers time so far
one could say he is only doing it to get pussy from his girlfriend
I'm just glad I finally saw a post from you that didn't mention Porker.
TLDRIMHO the U.S. flag doesn't represent all of the evils in our nation. It is incorrect to suggest that premise or even imply it as Colin haphazardly did. The Nazi flag, yes - it represented oppression - it represented prejudice and Aryan superiority. The U.S. Flag however, represents freedoms and promotes a way of thinking in which EVERYONE is valued - the whole "rights endowed by our CREATOR" bit...
That historically speaking, ignorant bigoted people have opposed those GOD-given rights doesn't mean that our Cons ution is at fault... I'm all for holding any rogue police officers or public servants ACCOUNTABLE for their crimes. But wearing socks that depict police officers as pigs or blasting music that insults our authorities is not the answer. Making generalizations at large about public servants such as police officers won't put an end to their generalizations about minority groups. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I get Colin's concern... it is one shared by many people. But why challenge the flag? This is where I respectfully disagree with the BLM crowd, and it stems from a fundamental difference in perspective and an inherent misunderstanding of our system of government on their part.
"The flag is American and therefore represents all that is America" gets thrown around all willy nilly <--- and I simply don't agree with this statement at all. The flag can't possibly embody every free will choice its citizens make. America doesn't stand for murderers even though there are murders amongst its population, it doesn't stand for rapists, or pedophiles, or thieves, or arsonists etc... Yes, those evils exist in every corner of the world, including the grand ol' United States of America - but they predate our country by millennia. Just because we have the freedom and option to "do what is good" doesn't mean that the freedom "to do what is bad" is a state sanctioned ordeal. That history rightfully shames the actions of corrupt men who abused their power to do abominable deeds doesn't automatically mean that they were fundamentally tied to the framework upon which our Cons ution was built.
America (and symbolically speaking its ever evolving flag) represents the ideals of our Cons ution - the transcendental pact between the governed and those who are elected to do the governing - it represents a do ent which expounds the very virtues of equality as people. That the founding fathers failed to completely grasp the gravitas of our GOD given rights doesn't mean that the do ent itself is somehow flawed or at fault. For example, that very same do ent was used as the ultimate equalizer when it came to the abolition of slavery (by president Lincoln), and later by the women's suffrage movement (Susan B. Anthony used the very language of the Cons ution to frame her own arguments) - because it revealed the inherent flaws in believing that anyone was superior to his or her fellow man (regardless of age / sex / quality). The language of the Cons ution was ahead of its time and even ridiculous clauses such as the 3/5ths compromise were ultimately purged out when the original language of the Cons ution was allowed to prevail.
As for the flag flying in the name of atrocities... I don't see the logic in pinning that on the flag... Again, I believe in the concept of accountability and the men or women responsible for heinous acts should be held accountable for them - because those acts are exposed by the Cons ution itself. Remember it was a version of the American flag which also flew across the nation in the name of freedom as brother fought against brother in the struggle to bring an end to slavery. Likewise, it has flown across the world and triumphed in the struggle against tyranny. Some mention the lyrics of the National Anthem (which wasn't adopted until 1931 even though it was written in 1814) as being held in contempt for the hypocrisy of many who sing it. Again, to lambast the Anthem itself by disrespecting what it stands for simply because not everyone expounds its virtues is a misplaced attack... Coincidently, I had the opportunity of singing our National Anthem at a sporting event recently. It's difficult not to get choked up when thinking about what it represents. That's why Colin's recent actions have irked me the wrong way. That doesn't mean that I'm any less compassionate towards those that have been wronged unjustly by the authorities. Kaepernick actions somehow imply that those that do participate in the celebration of our flag or our country are complicit with the criminals who abused their place of authority to "get away with murder". It's therefore insulting to suggest that our patriotism somehow is coddling and protecting the injustices committed by rogue criminals.
To challenge the American flag hence, with civil protest because of some misplaced belief that it somehow represents the abuse of police power - illustrates a serious disconnect on the part of the protestors with our system of government. Police Departments are locally managed infrastructures - they aren't managed by the Federal Government (and hence the jurisdiction of the American flag). In other words, they need to protest their local and state authorities on a case by case basis. Protesting the U.S. flag is nonsensical.
No player on the Spurs roster will participate.....Jonathan Simmons, the new kid from UW, whoever.
Spurs don't get involved in controversy, and this flag protest thing certainly fits that bill, regardless of how its proponents want to paint it.
Off the court they may make statements but I just don't see it carrying over to this organization, tbh.
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