Too soon?

[RandomGuy]

It's a point we couldn't agree on in the thread I mentioned. How do you quantify it? The fact that it's even up for debate makes an effort to do so pretty hard. They're both turds of pretty equal proportions IMO in terms of demagoguery.

But beyond that, the demagoguery standard that you're putting forth is just that: a single, limited standard. I think the more you add on to it, the more even it becomes in terms which one is less ty. Like, for instance integrity. They both suck at that. Months back, I thought Hillary had Trump on that. When the whole DNC rigging thing got exposed, I basically threw my hands up.

The system just doesn't work when there's no honesty/transparency & name-calling that clouds virtually any semblance of an exchange of ideas. Its been going on for a while now in Washington but it has truly tipped the scales at this point. It's an utter embarrassment.

You seriously think that Donald Trump, and Hillary Clinton would score equally by any measure on demogoguery? Their harm is somehow equal?

Really? Are you that stupid/lazy?

That is a bit like two people looking at a jar of pennies, one saying "there are a billion pennies in there", the other saying "there are a thousand pennies in there", and you saying "they are equally valid guesses"

We don't have to know how many pennies are in the jar to know that a billion pennies is a stupid guess.

If you can't tell the difference between the two, I can't help you.

wow. just wow.

[RandomGuy]

It's also called trolling.

(sighs heavily)

I got that. Carry on, by all means.

[DMX7]

No, he was often wrong.

[baseline bum]

You seriously think that Donald Trump, and Hillary Clinton would score equally by any measure on demogoguery? Their harm is somehow equal?

I like Nate Silver's metric.

[CosmicCowboy]

Nate is just plain sour grapes now because he pronounced Trump dead so many times during the primaries and got proven wrong over and over.

[RandomGuy]

I like Nate Silver's metric.

Pretty much.

I forget who said it (Samantha Bee maybe?), but someone noted our system is set up well to deal with two qualified candidates. It just isn't capable of dealing with the bull overload of Trumps candidacy.

That so many lazy people like mingus are out there that think the two are roughly equivalent in any way, is a testament to how lazy and cynical (cynically lazy?) we are.

[RandomGuy]

Nate is just plain sour grapes now because he pronounced Trump dead so many times during the primaries and got proven wrong over and over.

Doesn't make him wrong this time.

[DMX7]

Pretty much.

I forget who said it (Samantha Bee maybe?), but someone noted our system is set up well to deal with two qualified candidates. It just isn't capable of dealing with the bull overload of Trumps candidacy.

That so many lazy people like mingus are out there that think the two are roughly equivalent in any way, is a testament to how lazy and cynical (cynically lazy?) we are.

I think the issue is that the media is so concerned with not being perceived as bias that it's become overly cautious in its criticism of Trump. Also, it's being overwhelmed by the sheer volume of lies and deplorable comments. In a 24-hour news cycle, the media wants to cover the latest thing said but it hasn't been able to fully digest the last crazy thing that was said.

[101A]

Pretty much.

I forget who said it (Samantha Bee maybe?), but someone noted our system is set up well to deal with two qualified candidates. It just isn't capable of dealing with the bull overload of Trumps candidacy.

That so many lazy people like mingus are out there that think the two are roughly equivalent in any way, is a testament to how lazy and cynical (cynically lazy?) we are.

I think there are plenty who are fully aware of how full of he is. They know EVERYTHING that he is accused of/is; and are not comfortable with it. They don't like him. They don't want him. BUT they are going to vote for him anyway.

Because:

1. They absolutely despise Hillary Clinton.
2. (and I quote the most apropos bumper sticker I've seen, "Trump, because.... it."

People are simply sick and tired of knowing that there are powerful people in politics/wal-street/both controlling their lives. They are pretty sure that, because of the reaction of those same people, that those puppet masters DON'T like Trump. They are going to get a box of popcorn, vote Trump, and see what the happens.

We all know what happens with Cinton; four more years of the same decision makers making decisions. A scandal a week. Taxes basically stay where there at; regulation trends, as does everything else. Stay the course. Problem is, most think the course sucks! Trump may not be a course correction, but he damn sure is a course change.

As you can tell, I am intrigued by it. I cannot, however, condone, endorse, or actively choose that imbecile to be my president. I also can't vote for Hillary Clinton.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think there are plenty who are fully aware of how full of he is. They know EVERYTHING that he is accused of/is; and are not comfortable with it. They don't like him. They don't want him. BUT they are going to vote for him anyway.

Because:

1. They absolutely despise Hillary Clinton.
2. (and I quote the most apropos bumper sticker I've seen, "Trump, because.... it."

People are simply sick and tired of knowing that there are powerful people in politics/wal-street/both controlling their lives. They are pretty sure that, because of the reaction of those same people, that those puppet masters DON'T like Trump. They are going to get a box of popcorn, vote Trump, and see what the happens.

We all know what happens with Cinton; four more years of the same decision makers making decisions. A scandal a week. Taxes basically stay where there at; regulation trends, as does everything else. Stay the course. Problem is, most think the course sucks! Trump may not be a course correction, but he damn sure is a course change.

As you can tell, I am intrigued by it. I cannot, however, condone, endorse, or actively choose that imbecile to be my president. I also can't vote for Hillary Clinton.

X2

and I think there are a lot of people that are going to vote for Trump in the privacy of the polling booth that won't admit it in public.

[clambake]

killer bumper sticker!

[baseline bum]

We all know what happens with Cinton; four more years of the same decision makers making decisions. A scandal a week. Taxes basically stay where there at; regulation trends, as does everything else. Stay the course. Problem is, most think the course sucks! Trump may not be a course correction, but he damn sure is a course change.

What do you think happens with Trump? What exactly is going to change with Trump?

[101A]

What do you think happens with Trump? What exactly is going to change with Trump?

Chaos.

[baseline bum]

Chaos.

I expect a redux of Bush's first term. Pence is already talking like he wants to be another Cheney. Trump has already shown he'd be a lazy ass president just like Bush when he offered Kasich control of foreign and domestic policy for the VP job. A Trump win surely guarantees a Republican control of all three branches of government, which means the same tired ass trickle down horse of big tax cuts for the job creators and demonization of the lower classes that has put us in such a great position the past 35 years since Reagan. Goodbye Obamacare, as the 194th repeal finally gets signed by the president. Then we go back to the old system where we keep the sky high prices and get the pre-existing conditions denials and medical bankruptcies back as a bonus. Sounds like fun. Maybe he can get us in another war too since he's so tough on ISIS.

[RandomGuy]

I think the issue is that the media is so concerned with not being perceived as bias that it's become overly cautious in its criticism of Trump. Also, it's being overwhelmed by the sheer volume of lies and deplorable comments. In a 24-hour news cycle, the media wants to cover the latest thing said but it hasn't been able to fully digest the last crazy thing that was said.

+1

Trump has been treated far too seriously. I think a lot of reporters have pretty much had it with his bull too.

He seems to have crossed some hitherto unknown line of hubris and dishonesty.

[RandomGuy]

Chaos.

Harris makes one of the clearer cases.




Executive summary:
Trump is dangerously uninformed, and likely not intelligent enough to be able to fully grasp the complexities of the office.

Hillary is far more qualified to hit the ground running.

[RandomGuy]

I expect a redux of Bush's first term. Pence is already talking like he wants to be another Cheney. Trump has already shown he'd be a lazy ass president just like Bush when he offered Kasich control of foreign and domestic policy for the VP job. A Trump win surely guarantees a Republican control of all three branches of government, which means the same tired ass trickle down horse of big tax cuts for the job creators and demonization of the lower classes that has put us in such a great position the past 35 years since Reagan. Goodbye Obamacare, as the 194th repeal finally gets signed by the president. Then we go back to the old system where we keep the sky high prices and get the pre-existing conditions denials and medical bankruptcies back as a bonus. Sounds like fun. Maybe he can get us in another war too since he's so tough on ISIS.

Pretty much. I have seen it argued that Trump is pulling his party to the left.

That may be the case, but his administration will be staffed by the kinds of radicals that will push through more failed GOP "trickle-down" policies.

[DMX7]

+1

Trump has been treated far too seriously. I think a lot of reporters have pretty much had it with his bull too.

He seems to have crossed some hitherto unknown line of hubris and dishonesty.

Yeah, the NY Times basically called him a liar on the birther stuff. They usually shy away from calling anything a lie outside of their editorial pages.

[hater]

"shillary is more qualified to hit the ground"

[101A]

I expect a redux of Bush's first term. Pence is already talking like he wants to be another Cheney. Trump has already shown he'd be a lazy ass president just like Bush when he offered Kasich control of foreign and domestic policy for the VP job. A Trump win surely guarantees a Republican control of all three branches of government, which means the same tired ass trickle down horse of big tax cuts for the job creators and demonization of the lower classes that has put us in such a great position the past 35 years since Reagan. Goodbye Obamacare, as the 194th repeal finally gets signed by the president. Then we go back to the old system where we keep the sky high prices and get the pre-existing conditions denials and medical bankruptcies back as a bonus. Sounds like fun. Maybe he can get us in another war too since he's so tough on ISIS.

I don't think for an instant that Trump will be Bush redux. IMO, a Hillary administration will be more similar to Bush that Trump 1.0. He's going to try to build a wall. He's going to start trade wars. Markets will tumble. He's going to piss off allies and adversaries alike around the globe. Tax cuts; probably, but he has not been a fan of Wall Street, and has specifically mentioned the "bankers" would have it tougher. I think the makeup of the congress is largely irrelevant. Trump is not running a Republican campaign. He's mocked Iraq over an over, I doubt he's going to put boots on the ground. He may, however, allow Putin to occupy large chunks of property in the ME without complaint.

I don't think it will feel like any other administration pretty much ever.

[101A]

Pretty much. I have seen it argued that Trump is pulling his party to the left.

That may be the case, but his administration will be staffed by the kinds of radicals that will push through more failed GOP "trickle-down" policies.

He's mentioned taxes, certainly, but it hasn't been a pillar of his candidacy, has it? Reducing the number of brackets, top bracket of 25%? Won't happen. Senate will stop it. the Bush tax cuts are still in effect for vast majority of the country after 8 years of Obama. What is so different about those administrations, again? The difference between the far left and the crazy right? 4 points on the top bracket? Damn the gulf is staggering!!!!

[ducks]

I expect a redux of Bush's first term. Pence is already talking like he wants to be another Cheney. Trump has already shown he'd be a lazy ass president just like Bush when he offered Kasich control of foreign and domestic policy for the VP job. A Trump win surely guarantees a Republican control of all three branches of government, which means the same tired ass trickle down horse of big tax cuts for the job creators and demonization of the lower classes that has put us in such a great position the past 35 years since Reagan. Goodbye Obamacare, as the 194th repeal finally gets signed by the president. Then we go back to the old system where we keep the sky high prices and get the pre-existing conditions denials and medical bankruptcies back as a bonus. Sounds like fun. Maybe he can get us in another war too since he's so tough on ISIS.

Kasich was talked about if trump did not get enough delegates to become the republican nominee. He had to offer him something to get him to think about it.

[baseline bum]

I don't think for an instant that Trump will be Bush redux. IMO, a Hillary administration will be more similar to Bush that Trump 1.0. He's going to try to build a wall. He's going to start trade wars. Markets will tumble. He's going to piss off allies and adversaries alike around the globe. Tax cuts; probably, but he has not been a fan of Wall Street, and has specifically mentioned the "bankers" would have it tougher. I think the makeup of the congress is largely irrelevant. Trump is not running a Republican campaign. He's mocked Iraq over an over, I doubt he's going to put boots on the ground. He may, however, allow Putin to occupy large chunks of property in the ME without complaint.

I don't think it will feel like any other administration pretty much ever.

I don't buy it. Trump will be a lazy bas and he'll hand over everything to Pence just like Bush did when he didn't want to do the first term either. With all three branches of government on Team Koch it'll be a teabagger field day for Pence and the house if Trump wins.

[Splits]

I don't buy it. Trump will be a lazy bas and he'll hand over everything to Pence just like Bush did when he didn't want to do the first term either. With all three branches of government on Team Koch it'll be a teabagger field day for Pence and the house if Trump wins.

That's like, best case scenario. Not sure why everyone dismisses full-on fascist America so quickly.

[boutons_deux]

That's like, best case scenario. Not sure why everyone dismisses full-on fascist America so quickly.

I don't dismiss it at all. 10Ms of American assholes support Trash, and plenty of Repug politicians love his "leadership". Dangerous times. Repug SCOTUS is already full of corrupt, extreme right wing s.